TP multiway, I am lost.

[corsakh]

First hand.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($141.45)
CO ($75.05)
Button ($12.50)
SB ($50.80)
Hero ($50)
UTG ($49.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $2.25</font>, MP calls $2, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls $1.75, Hero calls $1.50.

Flop: ($8.25) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $5.5</font>, SB folds, Hero calls $5.50, UTG folds.

Turn: ($19.25) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero ???

C/c or b/f ???

[jessyj07]

I usually reraise or fold preflop here. If you just call you're going to be OOP in a 4-way pot with a RIO hand which is what we don't want.

Postflop I c/c turn and river. It's very unlikely he has AK/AA/KK so that leaves 77 or A7 for hands that beat you. I don't think he's betting total air into 3-people but you never know. Any aggression you show is going to get a fold most of the time and the only thing you're really worried about is a 2-5 outer.

[corsakh]

A call is fine, the only hand that dominates me is AK and UTG is the only one who may have it.

[corsakh]

I wish I had data on this guy before. He is now runing 40/30/5 /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[jessyj07]

[ QUOTE ]
A call is fine, the only hand that dominates me is AK and UTG is the only one who may have it.

[/ QUOTE ]RIO doesn't really refer to domination it refers to winning a small pot in relation to losing a big one. That is exactly what's going to happen being OOP in a 4way pot.

[corsakh]

You sure? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[jessyj07]

[ QUOTE ]
You sure? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]I assume you mean about the last part...Yes, I am sure about this. Sometimes you may win a big pot but usually you're either winning a small one or losing a big one.

[Lego05]

RIO stands for reverse implied odds so ea it's what jessy's talkin about. I would normally fold pre-flop.

[corsakh]

RIO comes from the idea that your hand may be dominated.

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
RIO comes from the idea that your hand may be dominated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well yea partly so your gonna lose to AK, but also pairs smaller than a Q probably won't put more money in if you hit your hand so you win a little, but they could win a large pot from you if they flop a set. Same thing stands true although I think a little less true for 2 pair combinations.

And then of course you are going to miss most of the time and probably hae to give up to his aggression.


I wouldn't have wanted to call here pre-flop at all.

[corsakh]

Sorry, but you are wrong.

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but you are wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well you pretty much got one of the best flops you could hope for and still you don't know how to play it. Doesn't that make you think?

[pr0crast]

I have a personal rule that has served me well, and that is to never cold call a raise with AQ OOP, only IP. 3bet or fold, because calling is high variance, awkward, and at the very worst maybe even -EV if you aren't an expert hand-reader. Avoid putting yourself in situations where you have difficult decisions to make, and lean towards making other people make the difficult decisions.

[jessyj07]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but you are wrong.

[/ QUOTE ] Reverse Implied Odds (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=microplnl&amp;Number=8121403&amp; Searchpage=1&amp;Main=8121403&amp;Words=Concept+EMcWilliam s&amp;topic=&amp;Search=true#Post8121403) I also would have pitched this preflop.

[fees]

3bet preflop, c/c this street

[corsakh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but you are wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well you pretty much got one of the best flops you could hope for and still you don't know how to play it. Doesn't that make you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, any TP multiway makes you think. I wish I had stats on him when I played /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[corsakh]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a personal rule that has served me well, and that is to never cold call a raise with AQ OOP, only IP. 3bet or fold, because calling is high variance, awkward, and at the very worst maybe even -EV if you aren't an expert hand-reader. Avoid putting yourself in situations where you have difficult decisions to make, and lean towards making other people make the difficult decisions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its a little misconception. This is really a question of ranges. 3betting a LP raiser with AQ is often mandatory because you have the best hand and you want value. But 3betting a UTG raiser is pretty bad since your very often dominated.

Now to the question of calling, I am inclined to fold this hand HU with only UTG raiser in the hand since I am likely very close or behind and with him having position and aggression my call is not justified. But this being a family pot, folding such a strong hand is just spew. The only person who I should worry about is UTG since the rest certainly have worse hands. POstflop depends on the texture and action. A am certainly not felting this hand against UTG on an A or even Q high, but probably am against most other players. Even calling with QJ here is justified as long you know what flops are good for you.

[corsakh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but you are wrong.

[/ QUOTE ] Reverse Implied Odds (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=microplnl&amp;Number=8121403&amp; Searchpage=1&amp;Main=8121403&amp;Words=Concept+EMcWilliam s&amp;topic=&amp;Search=true#Post8121403) I also would have pitched this preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ranges, ranges, ranges.. Knowledge without understanding is such a waste.

[cooker3]

Your play so far has been fine against unknowns.
I donk the turn for about 12

[Waingro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have a personal rule that has served me well, and that is to never cold call a raise with AQ OOP, only IP. 3bet or fold, because calling is high variance, awkward, and at the very worst maybe even -EV if you aren't an expert hand-reader. Avoid putting yourself in situations where you have difficult decisions to make, and lean towards making other people make the difficult decisions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its a little misconception. This is really a question of ranges. 3betting a LP raiser with AQ is often mandatory because you have the best hand and you want value. But 3betting a UTG raiser is pretty bad since your very often dominated.

Now to the question of calling, I am inclined to fold this hand HU with only UTG raiser in the hand since I am likely very close or behind and with him having position and aggression my call is not justified. But this being a family pot, folding such a strong hand is just spew. The only person who I should worry about is UTG since the rest certainly have worse hands. POstflop depends on the texture and action. A am certainly not felting this hand against UTG on an A or even Q high, but probably am against most other players. Even calling with QJ here is justified as long you know what flops are good for you.

[/ QUOTE ]
So playing AQo oop multi-way is better than hu? That seems backwards. I think it is the other way around. The RIO increases dramatically the more players in the hand.

[corsakh]

If you play it multiway to flop A or Q then you are right.

[Waingro]

[ QUOTE ]
If you play it multiway to flop A or Q then you are right.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ok so we agree. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Then I like a cf on the turn. If villain bets again I give him credit for something good and just give up.