What ever happened to good manners and Class in poker?

[CincyLady]

I'm left wondering after what happened last night to Maria Ho (the last woman left at the time in the ME) when she busted out, what ever happened to good manners and the class acts in poker?

http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/2007-wsop/event-55-world-championship-no-limit-holdem/day5

[ QUOTE ]

The Rail Closes in
When Maria Ho busted, needless to say she was disappointed. To add insult to injury, Kevin Farry's supporters are two-deep on the rail and are extremely intoxicated. When the river card fell, they screamed *very* loudly and leant all the way over the ropes to high-five Farry.

The rail is very close to the table and Farry is in the 5 seat, however Maria is in the 4 seat and was unable to stand up due to the arms hanging over her head, holding her captive.

Scenes of joyous celebration are nothing new in poker, however what we just witnessed showed a total disregard for the player whose tournament life has just come to an end, and a complete lack of respect for the great game we all love.



[/ QUOTE ]

Male or female (the outgoing player), it's just not right what happened here.

IMO, Kevin Farry's supporters were out of line, and Kevin Farry should of said so (in other words, mentioned something to his supporters) at the time as well.

Comments?

[Squareview]

el o el

[greggg230]

it's pretty rude, but they were drunk, and im not sure what Kevin could have done about it

[CincyLady]

I realize he might not be able to control them, but at the very least he could of said something to his "crew" like:

"Dudes, I appreciate your support, but you need to give Maria some space here, and not be obnoxious here to her"

or something to that effect.

In other words, IMO, Kevin should of chastised them for how they acted, yet he said nothing.

Total lack of class and respect if you ask me.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
it's pretty rude, but they were drunk, and im not sure what Kevin could have done about it

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly, they were bombed and therefore are under no obligation to behave as they would when sober

[prohornblower]

When I opened this I thought guys yelled "haha no more b*tches left! hahaa!" or something.

This is nothing. Just some overzealous drunk guys. I'm sure they didn't intend harm on a Ho

[greggg230]

well, I agree

[wisehandpoker]

You're right that it was unfortunate. You're unrealistic to expect anything different. Old days or new days, drunks are still drunks.

[ncpokeresq]

While not excusing the bad behavior of the drunks, the fault here seems to mostly fall on Rio security for not keeping enough space between the table and the crowd. If the report is accurate, they were too close.

[Valerio]

I'm not a he-man woman-hater like most of this forum seems to be; but I don't think this post would exist if this incident had happened to a man.

[CincyLady]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a he-man woman-hater like most of this forum seems to be; but I don't think this post would exist if this incident had happened to a man.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it would.

Like I said in my original post, male or female (the outgoing player) it was just plain wrong.

While Kevin couldn't control his friends, IMO, what he did wrong was not saying a thing to them (or appologizing on their behalf since the only reason they were there was to support him), and letting the actions of his crew continue.

Where Kevin went wrong IMO, was that he didn't stand up for the busted out player, thus in effect condoning his crew's actions.

Also, too many ppl get drunk, and then use that as an excuse for their bad actions, simply because society gives them a 'pass' as soon as they hear they are drunk.

Perhaps if that pass was taken away, ppl might be more responsible in both their drinking and their actions.

[AJackson]

I think it's important to differentiate between the antics of some railbirds and those playing. When security allows a bunch of drunks within arms reach of a table in such an important event, I think the story is the piss poor security.

Also, some are disputing the reported events and saying it was the crush of press that prevented her from leaving the table.

[NewTeaBag]

This style of celebration is embraced by the newer players and has infiltrated the highest levels.

Look just 3 years ago to when Scot Fischman won a hand HU against Jo Awada and his "crew" were going bananas at Scott's sick river suckout all whilst Joe sat there classily and stoicly. Why didn't anyone make a big deal of it then?

How about the 2004 main event, when that young Swedish [censored] ran around shouting "Yes Yes! Yes!" after winning a race to knock out Chris Ferguson?

The insanity and excesive celbration are now rewarded by the TV crews and producers who actually encourage it. Oh well. Witht he poker boom comes costs. One of those costs seems to be a rapid decline in class/decorum.

[2461Badugi]

[ QUOTE ]

While Kevin couldn't control his friends, IMO, what he did wrong was not saying a thing to them (or appologizing on their behalf since the only reason they were there was to support him), and letting the actions of his crew continue.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's not like the guy's in a stress-free situation. It's unfortunate that he didn't say anything, but I find it hard to blame him for tunnel vision when he has just won a big pot and put a player out in the top 40 of the ME.

[MissT74]

While I agree it was wrong, rude and inappropriate, you cannot honestly say that if it was a man that it would have been written up in the way it was.

It's BECAUSE she was a female that it was written the way it was, thus causing your reaction, which is just what the reporter wanted.

This is something that happens almost every day, in almost every tournament at one point or another.

T

[bustedromo]

It's the tournament director's fault. Fans, TV and press could care less about respect, manners, taste, decorum.

WSOP is a lame tournament, compared to say EPT Monte Carlo where the players get treated right.

[Clayton]

[ QUOTE ]
it's pretty rude, but they were drunk, and im not sure what Kevin could have done about it

[/ QUOTE ]

he could have told his friends to STFU as opposed to fist bumping with them.

douchebags and drunkards, whee.

[Squareview]

that HO was trippin

[chicken10der]

It's like, whatever happened to predictability? The milkman, the paperboy, evening TV?

We need to go back to the days of Puggy Pearson pissing on dealers.

[Gunnarr]

I missed it in the report, where does it say Kevin didnt apologize or ask his friends to tone it down?

I hope you arent assuming things and chastising someone without all the information.

[Rushstreet07]

[ QUOTE ]
When I opened this I thought guys yelled "haha no more b*tches left! hahaa!" or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

^^^^^^ I LOL

[GambleAB]

They held her CAPTIVE??? So there were so many of them, and their hands and arms were so strong that she couldn't stand up, or move her chair back? Something doesn't sound right about that, now does it?

Rail revelry happens in about every poker tournament ever. While it's not exactly the most polite thing in the world, it isn't unexpected and certainly isn't some major breach of conduct that it's being made out to be. I've railed and been railed deep in WSOP events, and whenever someone had a problem with it, they took the appropriate action and either stood up for themselves and asked the railers to keep it down, or called over a floor and had them deal with it.

In a perfect world, there would be no obnoxious railers, demeaning table talk, or loud celebrations, but without all that negative stuff (and the "characters" it creates), I feel that the popularity of poker would decline (as would all of our incomes).

[blah_blah]

[ QUOTE ]
Male or female (the outgoing player), it's just not right what happened here.

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

you clearly only give a [censored] because she is a female (esp. given your posting history). as far as further comments are concerned, I think you are a horrible poster who adds nothing to this forum and you should just stop posting in general (whether females or males are concerned).

tia

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
They held her CAPTIVE??? So there were so many of them, and their hands and arms were so strong that she couldn't stand up, or move her chair back? Something doesn't sound right about that, now does it?

Rail revelry happens in about every poker tournament ever. While it's not exactly the most polite thing in the world, it isn't unexpected and certainly isn't some major breach of conduct that it's being made out to be. I've railed and been railed deep in WSOP events, and whenever someone had a problem with it, they took the appropriate action and either stood up for themselves and asked the railers to keep it down, or called over a floor and had them deal with it.

In a perfect world, there would be no obnoxious railers, demeaning table talk, or loud celebrations, but without all that negative stuff (and the "characters" it creates), I feel that the popularity of poker would decline (as would all of our incomes).

[/ QUOTE ]

well I'm sure she was able to wait for them to calm down after their celebration of her demise and then get up from the table. It would really suck to be in her shoes. It always sucks when drunk idiots sweat the rail. They think it is their right to be obnoxious and loud giving zero respect to the game or its participants. Given that these "fans" give nothing to the players, it seems reasonable to allow their ejection. Casinos are supposed to offer a fun friendly environment in which to lose your money. Why is it different at the poker table where people can actually root for, and celebrate your bad luck?

[cbnz]

is this a real post? lol please get over it boohoo she couldnt stand up for what 5 seconds?

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a he-man woman-hater like most of this forum seems to be; but I don't think this post would exist if this incident had happened to a man.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it would.

Like I said in my original post, male or female (the outgoing player) it was just plain wrong.

While Kevin couldn't control his friends, IMO, what he did wrong was not saying a thing to them (or appologizing on their behalf since the only reason they were there was to support him), and letting the actions of his crew continue.

Where Kevin went wrong IMO, was that he didn't stand up for the busted out player, thus in effect condoning his crew's actions.

Also, too many ppl get drunk, and then use that as an excuse for their bad actions, simply because society gives them a 'pass' as soon as they hear they are drunk.

Perhaps if that pass was taken away, ppl might be more responsible in both their drinking and their actions.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, no it wouldn't. given your other posts, I'm pretty confident in this.

[Dan BRIGHT]

basically ship it donkey! happened

[PokerBob]

What ever happened to good manners and Class in poker?

this.......

http://images.poquer-red.com/noticias/brandi-rose-ftp.jpg

[snagglepuss]

OOOOOOOMBERRTTTTOOO

also, in the main event i was slowrolled aipf w/ kk v aa in the last level of day 1d by a guy i had played with for 12 hours and with whom id had no prior confrontations.

he then tried to shake my hand maybe after it was obvious the table thought he was a douche after his faux pas. i just stared at it and said "are you fking serious?" and he asked if i was a sore loser. instead of diving across the table and viscously removing his head with my keys as i was envisioning, i just said wow pretty much, wished my homies at the table good luck, and left to punt my gatorade down the hallway and harass my cabbie with bad beat stories.

unfortunately it is safer to assume a random player at your table is an enormous douche than it is to assume they are a nice person with class.

[Clayton]

[ QUOTE ]
They held her CAPTIVE??? So there were so many of them, and their hands and arms were so strong that she couldn't stand up, or move her chair back? Something doesn't sound right about that, now does it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was there, and the situation was described accurately. the rail was approx 2 feet away from maria's chair (the 3 seat i think), and 3 drunk guys were barging over the rail boundary like it was a mosh pit at a concert. 10 more were behind them jumping and screaming as loud as possible. One douche in particular kept yelling drunk for 5 minutes after the hand was over.

You make valid points, but you just had to be there. It was the most disrespectful thing I have ever seen live or on TV in regards to poker.

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

[ QUOTE ]
While not excusing the bad behavior of the drunks, the fault here seems to mostly fall on Rio security for not keeping enough space between the table and the crowd. If the report is accurate, they were too close.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFMFT

[oneouterson]

Some fans go too far with the free beer offered at the Milwaukee's Best No-Limit BAR.....
Is there free beer the whole main event or soemthing?
this is awesome.

[MicroBob]

clayton - If they were reaching so much over her that she couldn't even stand up one assumes they probably made phycial contact with her too (probably an elbow on her head or shoulder or something).
If so then that's pretty bad.

But I think all this high-fiving stuff and most of the screwming stuff every time you flip-over AA or catch your 3-outer is really silly.

But it's also gotten to the point that I'm kind of used to it because if you watch one of the older WSOP or other tournament footage its absence is pretty conspicious.


As far as telling your own posse to 'tone it down' I'm somewhat reminded of Hachem telling the crowd to 'shhh, it's not over yet' when he was all-in with Dannemann with a couple cards to go.
So I do think it can be done.

Without having seen the sitation though it's hard to say how much of the player himself is really at fault here. Security and the obnoxious crew themselves have to accept the bulk of the responsibility.
I do think the player could make SOME effort in such a situation but he certainly can't be entirely to blame.

[_And1_]

drankards and nobrains in the rail, that must be a first...

[NCAces]

[ QUOTE ]
While not excusing the bad behavior of the drunks, the fault here seems to mostly fall on Rio security for not keeping enough space between the table and the crowd. If the report is accurate, they were too close.

[/ QUOTE ]

The winner.

[wisehandpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
We need to go back to the days of Puggy Pearson pissing on dealers.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/heart.gif

[The B]

Harrah's should give the players plenty of space between the railbirds and fans in the crowd...another flaw, imagine that

[Tinga]

who [censored] cares this game is a joke

[Humble Pie]

[ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/confused.gif What ever happened to good manners and Class in poker?


[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like a question for Johnny Hughes /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[T-God]

[ QUOTE ]
what ever happened to good manners and the class acts in poker?


[/ QUOTE ]

WTF are you talking about? When were the 'good old days' when there was never anything disrespectful done at a poker table? Some people are [censored]. Those people have always existed. Bevavior like you described has nothing to do with the state of poker today and everything to do with people being retarded.

Thanks for another great post cincylady!

[CincyLady]

[ QUOTE ]
This style of celebration is embraced by the newer players and has infiltrated the highest levels.

Look just 3 years ago to when Scot Fischman won a hand HU against Jo Awada and his "crew" were going bananas at Scott's sick river suckout all whilst Joe sat there classily and stoicly. Why didn't anyone make a big deal of it then?

How about the 2004 main event, when that young Swedish [censored] ran around shouting "Yes Yes! Yes!" after winning a race to knock out Chris Ferguson?

The insanity and excesive celbration are now rewarded by the TV crews and producers who actually encourage it. Oh well. Witht he poker boom comes costs. One of those costs seems to be a rapid decline in class/decorum.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was wrong when it happened then, and it was wrong this time, doesn't matter what gender the person going out was.

I still fault Kevin somewhat simply because he didn't say word one to his crew.

Had he said something, that would be a different matter.

Also, to excuse his crew simply because they were drunk, also illistrates in my mind part of the problem with society in general.

If perhaps we stopped giving 'passes' to people just because they were drinking, they might think twice before drinking to excess.

Kevin's crew chose to drink and drink to excess, so in my opinion, they should of been held responsible for their actions, and security should of ejected them at that point.

So, yes I also agree that security (or rather the lack there of) was part of the problem as well.

[BowToYourSensei]

oh stfu and stop being so naive

i mean, you seriously made a thread about drunk RAILBIRDS congratulating a guy?

wow. all the class is gone.

[antisocialgrace]

This juvenile little misogynistic degenerate shithole is the wrong place to post about "class".

The truth is poker players, especially higher stakes poker players, are typically losers in life who couldn't make it in the real world so they turned to being scumbag hustlers. Accordingly this kind of behavior from the sort of krunks who look up to scumbag hustlers shouldn't surprise anyone and is the rule rather than the exception.

If it's me sitting in seat four some punk is getting hurt.

[CincyLady]

[ QUOTE ]
While I agree it was wrong, rude and inappropriate, you cannot honestly say that if it was a man that it would have been written up in the way it was.

It's BECAUSE she was a female that it was written the way it was, thus causing your reaction, which is just what the reporter wanted.

This is something that happens almost every day, in almost every tournament at one point or another.

T

[/ QUOTE ]

MissT, I disagree. I think that either way, male or female, it would of been written the same way.

I will also say that you are right and that it's a sad state of affairs that this does happen every day in tourneys.

This incident only shows that in graphic detail even more.

[goofball]

Back when poker was less legitimate there were more douchbags, not less. The old people I play with every day are way more likely to be without class the the young ones. Many of them are condescending to the fish, shoot angles, and generally have poor attitudes.

Also, some people are good winners and losers, some are not. Doesn't matter if it's at a poker table or a sports arena. Finally, these are big hands/turns of fate. Can't really fault people for having immediate intense emotional reactions.

[CincyLady]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Male or female (the outgoing player), it's just not right what happened here.

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

you clearly only give a [censored] because she is a female (esp. given your posting history). as far as further comments are concerned, I think you are a horrible poster who adds nothing to this forum and you should just stop posting in general (whether females or males are concerned).

tia

[/ QUOTE ]

You have a right to you opinion, but just because I support women in poker, doesn't mean I wouldn't of said the same thing had this happened to a male participant, because I would of.

I think it's bad form period, and that the offenders should of been ejected over this.

[CincyLady]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what ever happened to good manners and the class acts in poker?


[/ QUOTE ]

WTF are you talking about? When were the 'good old days' when there was never anything disrespectful done at a poker table? Some people are [censored]. Those people have always existed. Bevavior like you described has nothing to do with the state of poker today and everything to do with people being retarded.

Thanks for another great post cincylady!

[/ QUOTE ]

Your so welcome there sir!

Seriously though, it was one thing when it was a once in a blue moon kind of thing.

The sad part is that these days it happens (as MissT pointed out) all the time, and that is what needs to change.

Were these kids raised by wolves or something? Didn't their parents teach them mannors and respect, and how to do the right thing?

[blah_blah]

[ QUOTE ]
If it's me sitting in seat four some punk is getting hurt.

[/ QUOTE ]

luckily no one will be getting hurt because you are not in seat four; rather, you are at home frothing with impotent rage because you are disabled, play micro stakes, and have nothing to live for besides exposing poker players for the scum they are.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Male or female (the outgoing player), it's just not right what happened here.

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

you clearly only give a [censored] because she is a female (esp. given your posting history). as far as further comments are concerned, I think you are a horrible poster who adds nothing to this forum and you should just stop posting in general (whether females or males are concerned).

tia

[/ QUOTE ]

You have a right to you opinion, but just because I support women in poker, doesn't mean I wouldn't of said the same thing had this happened to a male participant, because I would of.

I think it's bad form period, and that the offenders should of been ejected over this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's put it more clearly - this would not be a STORY AT ALL had it happened to a guy. Hence, you wouldn't be all up in arms.

And to whoever talked about this being a mysoginistic shithole....why are you even here then? Or am I being leveled seriously?

I've seen all the celebrations on TV. This doesn't sound too terrible. People always cheer for their friends when they're on the rail. Anybody bitching about someone cheering someone's bad luck is an idiot. They're cheering their friend's good luck, which inherently MUST come from someone's bad luck. I'm not going to shed a tear because someone couldn't get up from the table for a few seconds and a guy's railbirds were cheering loudly.

If I see something ridiculous on TV, I may change my tune. Until then, this is lame.

[Dynasty]

Poker never had good manners and class. It's had individuals with good manners and class. But, the game as a whole has been heavily populated by rude people for a long time.

[CincyLady]

I'd be up in arms no matter what, regardless of who this had happened to, and I think it would of been reported had it happened to a male player (at least I hope it would of).

Cheering (your player) is once thing, preventing the (busted out) player from getting up and leaving the scene, is quite another.

[SuperUberBob]

Please, poker never had any overall class.

Even in the times before the poker boom, people would insult and abuse dealers. Hell, Puggy Pearson supposedly pissed on one.

So yeah, I wouldn't correlate class with poker at any time.

[internetdonk]

I blame the Euros....

[Jack Bando]

You're right, we should go back to the good old days, where getting possibly robbed at gunpoint was considered part of the job.

Kevin Farry was high fiving his friends, why would he look over at Ho? If he noticed and did nothing, fine he made a mistake. Until I see/hear that happened he did nothing wrong.

[Bobbo539]

wait, reading though the day 6 thread, it turns out it was the media (camera and sounguys) that boxed her in for a few seconds. There were posts saying that Kevins railbirds were nosiy, but not over the line.

I mean, big deal. Im sure a 200k+ check makes up for that inconvenience.

[THAY3R]

Yea, I miss the good ol days when nothing was ever reported because there wasn't as much technology so everything was much classier then.

[kleath]

Complaining about this is as ridiculous as McManus's "disrespecting the game" comments.

[antisocialgrace]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If it's me sitting in seat four some punk is getting hurt.

[/ QUOTE ]

luckily no one will be getting hurt because you are not in seat four; rather, you are at home frothing with impotent rage because you are disabled, play micro stakes, and have nothing to live for besides exposing poker players for the scum they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play high micro stakes now, soon to be murdering low stakes. That must frustrate a lot of you 2+2 punks that some jerk who took up the game later in life and doesn't angle-shoot, multi-account, chip dump or collude is actually doing alright.

Although it's highly unlikely you would ever find me in a casino because of my social limitations and general aversion to degenerate scumbags in public settings, were I to reduce myself to such ignominy I assure you I'm quite capable causing someone grievous personal injury under appropriate circumstances. I can't imagine in my wildest imagination not being moved to confrontation if some inebreiated punkshit restricted my right of way after the scumbag degenerate donkey he's heaping misplaced adulation on sucked out on me.

As far as exposing poker players for the scum they are being the primary motivation for and purpose of my existence ...

not even I'm that pathetic.

[jimmytrick]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If it's me sitting in seat four some punk is getting hurt.

[/ QUOTE ]

luckily no one will be getting hurt because you are not in seat four; rather, you are at home frothing with impotent rage because you are disabled, play micro stakes, and have nothing to live for besides exposing poker players for the scum they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play high micro stakes now, soon to be murdering low stakes. That must frustrate a lot of you 2+2 punks that some jerk who took up the game later in life and doesn't angle-shoot, multi-account, chip dump or collude is actually doing alright.

Although it's highly unlikely you would ever find me in a casino because of my social limitations and general aversion to degenerate scumbags in public settings, were I to reduce myself to such ignominy I assure you I'm quite capable causing someone grievous personal injury under appropriate circumstances. I can't imagine in my wildest imagination not being moved to confrontation if some inebreiated punkshit restricted my right of way after the scumbag degenerate donkey he's heaping misplaced adulation on sucked out on me.

As far as exposing poker players for the scum they are being the primary motivation for and purpose of my existence ...

not even I'm that pathetic.

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="red"> Awesome post </font>

[blah_blah]

[ QUOTE ]
I play high micro stakes now, soon to be murdering low stakes. That must frustrate a lot of you 2+2 punks that some jerk who took up the game later in life and doesn't angle-shoot, multi-account, chip dump or collude is actually doing alright.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey bro i know you're really sticking it to the man by crushing the microstakes and all but most of us who have played limits more profitable than searching for change in your couch prob aren't going to feel that frustrated ok

[jimmytrick]

It's well known they only give out winning accounts to the youth demographic. All other accounts are rigged to lose slightly, so if he is old and winning anti~ is probably one of the best players on the net. Give him some respect.

[greggg230]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Male or female (the outgoing player), it's just not right what happened here.

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

you clearly only give a [censored] because she is a female (esp. given your posting history). as far as further comments are concerned, I think you are a horrible poster who adds nothing to this forum and you should just stop posting in general (whether females or males are concerned).

tia

[/ QUOTE ]

is there something wrong with being more disgusted with this because it was a female who had been busted?

[uDevil]

From pictures, it looks as though the players barely had room to breathe, so it's not surprising. When I read that last night I thought "What a bunch of pricks!". If these guys want to act that way, maybe the rail should be electrified.

Does it matter that Maria is a girl? Yeah it does. I wouldn't like seeing it happen to anyone, but it is still somehow worse in this case. If that makes me sexist, fine. Sue me.

Would these jackasses feel the need to treat Doyle Brunson that way? What about Chad Brown (or his girlfriend for that matter)? In that case I'd support Chad if he passed out a few chair-hats.

[Emperor]

Obviously Maria wasn't all that upset about it or she would have called the police.

When casino security fails, calling the LVPD is the correct move. Since she didn't call them, it might have been annoying, but evidently not as bad as you are making it seem. At least in Maria's eyes.

[goofball]

blahblah,

Step off. The man is crushing the high microstakes

[elliot]

who wants to bet that she would never have made this thread if the "victim" wasnt a woman?

some drunks acted MILDLY RUDE and you really expect anyone to care?

handle the situation like a [censored] adult.

[SuperUberBob]

If Maria Ho was ugly, nobody would be bitching about this.

[greggg230]

[ QUOTE ]
who wants to bet that she would never have made this thread if the "victim" wasnt a woman?

some drunks acted MILDLY RUDE and you really expect anyone to care?

handle the situation like a [censored] adult.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't hear anything about Maria Ho complaining to anyone about it. How didn't she handle it like an adult?

And that's a lot more than mildly rude.

[ QUOTE ]

If Maria Ho was ugly, nobody would be bitching about this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not, there are people who don't want anyone to be treated disrespectfully, even women who aren't attractive.

[Ignignokt]

I'm waiting for someone's sloppy-drunk posse to hurt somebody and the victim to sue Harrahs for overserving.

Posses of current/ex/wannabe fratboys bug me in the first place. Add free beer, and as in the outside world it's a recipe for disaster.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Male or female (the outgoing player), it's just not right what happened here.

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

you clearly only give a [censored] because she is a female (esp. given your posting history). as far as further comments are concerned, I think you are a horrible poster who adds nothing to this forum and you should just stop posting in general (whether females or males are concerned).

tia

[/ QUOTE ]

is there something wrong with being more disgusted with this because it was a female who had been busted?

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, yeah. Especially when you try to deflect the obvious by saying that it doesn't matter, when in fact, its the only part of this story that MAKES it a story. People have been congratulating their friends on huge wins all the time. If she couldn't get up for five whole seconds (ZOMG!!! STOP THE PRESSES!!!1!!eleven), then she could have sat there, shook hands with the people next to her, and left 5 seconds later to get her nice little check.

I would be willing to bet she didn't give a damn herself. Its some whiny "reporter" and an even whinier OP.

[Quicksilvre]

[ QUOTE ]
Posses of current/ex/wannabe fratboys bug me in the first place. Add free beer, and as in the outside world it's a recipe for disaster.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the winner.

[antisocialgrace]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I play high micro stakes now, soon to be murdering low stakes. That must frustrate a lot of you 2+2 punks that some jerk who took up the game later in life and doesn't angle-shoot, multi-account, chip dump or collude is actually doing alright.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey bro i know you're really sticking it to the man by crushing the microstakes and all but most of us who collude and multi-account and have played limits more profitable than searching for change in your couch prob aren't going to feel that frustrated ok

[/ QUOTE ]

the point is I'm winning on the up and up, a little more than couch change as it were. can you and your fellow 2+2 punkass degenerate immediate-gratification wastrel junkie weasel wannabees say the same?

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I play high micro stakes now, soon to be murdering low stakes. That must frustrate a lot of you 2+2 punks that some jerk who took up the game later in life and doesn't angle-shoot, multi-account, chip dump or collude is actually doing alright.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey bro i know you're really sticking it to the man by crushing the microstakes and all but most of us who collude and multi-account and have played limits more profitable than searching for change in your couch prob aren't going to feel that frustrated ok

[/ QUOTE ]

the point is I'm winning on the up and up, a little more than couch change as it were. can you and your 2+2 punkass degenerate immediate-gratification wastrel junkie weasel wannabees say the same?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're presenting yourself with such class here, I'm amazed to see that people aren't bowing down and kissing your feet.

Jesus Christ, go away. You haven't added one positive thought to this thread, and you rip on 2+2 in every post. GTFO if you hate people here so much. Quit swinging your e-peen around. You're pathetic.

[supafrey]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Male or female (the outgoing player), it's just not right what happened here.

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

you clearly only give a [censored] because she is a female (esp. given your posting history). as far as further comments are concerned, I think you are a horrible poster who adds nothing to this forum and you should just stop posting in general (whether females or males are concerned).

tia

[/ QUOTE ]

is there something wrong with being more disgusted with this because it was a female who had been busted?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes. unless you want to start calling girls "ladies" and challenging brutes to duels and protecting dames from things like voting, and stuff.

P.S. Anyone that idealizes old-timey stuff is almost invariably delusional. Oh noes, they won't let her leave! That's so much better than those old days where they wouldn't let her leave because they just robbed the poker room at gunpoint. Woo! Nostalgia rocks!

[Mr Rat]

<u>Poker Showboating</u>

Just as I dislike the end zone showboating dances in football, I hate the screaming-jump-around-the-table showboating of poker tournaments (or cash games on the occasions I have seen it).

When you have just busted your opponent, I think it is great class if you control your outbursts and just shake your opponent's hand and say 'good game' - even if your opponent is a whiny loser. But if you have to jump up and scream and basically piss on your opponent's beat, I think that is low class. If you need to scream and jump up and down, then run to the restroom and get in the stall and do your little dance.

I understand the need to celebrate but at least wait until the person you just busted has left - or run off somewhere and let it all out. Maybe being on camera makes a lot of people lose themselves...who knows.

Just a newbies opinion. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Bond18]

[ QUOTE ]
Poker never had good manners and class. It's had individuals with good manners and class. But, the game as a whole has been heavily populated by rude people for a long time.

[/ QUOTE ]

God, thank you. We're talking about a game that for decades was mostly populated by degens, criminals, hustlers, and confined to back room illegal status. Someone please, find me this moment in history when poker was a game of all class and gentlemen.

[blah_blah]

[ QUOTE ]
the point is I'm winning on the up and up, a little more than couch change as it were. can you and your fellow 2+2 punkass degenerate immediate-gratification wastrel junkie weasel wannabees say the same?

[/ QUOTE ]

have you ever met a 2p2er? (what with your social limitations and all)

I've met and partied with a fair number of MSNL/HSNL/MTTC 2p2ers and all of them were super chill guys fwiw. I've xferred/coinflipped thousands of dollars with 2p2ers and never worried about being scammed/grimmstar'd. ActionJeff and another 2p2er paid a $2000 dinner tab without ever having met some of the guys there (like me) before that day.

fwiw I've played as high as nl2k before and I can confidently say that every pot you collude to win in is twice as sweet.

[uDevil]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poker never had good manners and class. It's had individuals with good manners and class. But, the game as a whole has been heavily populated by rude people for a long time.

[/ QUOTE ]

God, thank you. We're talking about a game that for decades was mostly populated by degens, criminals, hustlers, and confined to back room illegal status. Someone please, find me this moment in history when poker was a game of all class and gentlemen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, poker is full of dirtbags. I don't see that as a reason to tolerate their behavior.

[greggg230]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Male or female (the outgoing player), it's just not right what happened here.

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

you clearly only give a [censored] because she is a female (esp. given your posting history). as far as further comments are concerned, I think you are a horrible poster who adds nothing to this forum and you should just stop posting in general (whether females or males are concerned).

tia

[/ QUOTE ]

is there something wrong with being more disgusted with this because it was a female who had been busted?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes. unless you want to start calling girls "ladies" and challenging brutes to duels and protecting dames from things like voting, and stuff.

P.S. Anyone that idealizes old-timey stuff is almost invariably delusional. Oh noes, they won't let her leave! That's so much better than those old days where they wouldn't let her leave because they just robbed the poker room at gunpoint. Woo! Nostalgia rocks!

[/ QUOTE ]

You heard it here, chivalry-or just thinking that men shouldn't act like total pigs to women-means supporting armed robbery. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Sponger.]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm waiting for someone's sloppy-drunk posse to hurt somebody and the victim to sue Harrahs for overserving.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL what the hell

Keep waiting I guess?

[Ignignokt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm waiting for someone's sloppy-drunk posse to hurt somebody and the victim to sue Harrahs for overserving.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL what the hell

Keep waiting I guess?

[/ QUOTE ]

You know, I'm swayed by your thoughtful, reasoned argument. I take it all back.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]

the point is I'm winning on the up and up, a little more than couch change as it were. can you and your fellow 2+2 punkass degenerate immediate-gratification wastrel junkie weasel wannabees say the same?

[/ QUOTE ]


antisocial - I fail to see how your win-rate in online-poker or your dislike for other 2+2'ers has anything to do with the issue at hand.
In case you forgot, the issue we are discussing is about a bunch of drunken railbirds behaving even more inappropriately than normal and how this general raucous railbird behavior is getting a bit out of hand.


The issue of your obvious poker-greatness and how much awesomer you are vs. all other 2+2'ers combined really doesn't have much to do with this. Feel free to start your own thread about this topic in BBV though.

[Bullrun]

I don't know how a gambling tournament can be considered classy but yeah....

Eh, just shrugg when u see these huge celebrations....thats what I do...specially at the limit casino tables....el oh el indeed...

[Ignignokt]

Even worse are the posses who yell at the opponents - sometimes during a hand:

[ QUOTE ]
Jerry Yang limped and Hevad Khan raised 500,000. Yang called. The flop was {A-Diamonds}{K-Spades}{Q-Diamonds}. Yang checked. Khan counted out his chips and gently pushed out a 650,000 bet. Khan had been unusually quiet and he sat in dead silence. Jerry Yang counted down his chips then announced a raise to 1,650,000. Khan looked at Yang then looked at the board before he moved all in for 1,825,000 more. Yang stood up as Khan sat in silence looking down at his cards. Yang went into the tank for a few minutes and stared at Khan.

"Get a read yet?" shouted someone from the rail.

[/ QUOTE ]

TD should be ejecting that guy on the spot.

Earlier someone's friend yelled at an opponent after opponent won a bad beat.

Let the players play (and if they so decide, to be classless in the spirit of the history of poker). Spectators should STFU.

[MadMaestro]

[ QUOTE ]
Even worse are the posses who yell at the opponents - sometimes during a hand:

[ QUOTE ]
Jerry Yang limped and Hevad Khan raised 500,000. Yang called. The flop was {A-Diamonds}{K-Spades}{Q-Diamonds}. Yang checked. Khan counted out his chips and gently pushed out a 650,000 bet. Khan had been unusually quiet and he sat in dead silence. Jerry Yang counted down his chips then announced a raise to 1,650,000. Khan looked at Yang then looked at the board before he moved all in for 1,825,000 more. Yang stood up as Khan sat in silence looking down at his cards. Yang went into the tank for a few minutes and stared at Khan.

"Get a read yet?" shouted someone from the rail.

[/ QUOTE ]

TD should be ejecting that guy on the spot.

Earlier someone's friend yelled at an opponent after opponent won a bad beat.

Let the players play (and if they so decide, to be classless in the spirit of the history of poker). Spectators should STFU.

[/ QUOTE ]

That absolutely sucks. Last year at the WSOP FT, they had a list of spectator rules posted outside the seating area, which included not heckling other players. While people would cheer when their player won a hand, there wasn't any taunting/heckling...TD should definitely take care of that nonsense.

---MM

[antisocialgrace]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the point is I'm winning on the up and up, a little more than couch change as it were. can you and your fellow 2+2 punkass degenerate immediate-gratification wastrel junkie weasel wannabees say the same?

[/ QUOTE ]

have you ever met a 2p2er? (what with your social limitations and all)

I've met and partied with a fair number of MSNL/HSNL/MTTC 2p2ers and all of them were super chill guys fwiw. I've xferred/coinflipped thousands of dollars with 2p2ers and never worried about being scammed/grimmstar'd. ActionJeff and another 2p2er paid a $2000 dinner tab without ever having met some of the guys there (like me) before that day.

fwiw I've played as high as nl2k before and I can confidently say that every pot you collude to win in is twice as sweet.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you admit you're a scumbag cheat like just about every other internet punk who cleaned up during the halcyon days of online poker?

If his behavior on Stars is any indication, I would guess $2k doesn't even begin to touch what "Action Jeff" has amassed in typical 2+2 scumbag fashion.

[antisocialgrace]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

the point is I'm winning on the up and up, a little more than couch change as it were. can you and your fellow 2+2 punkass degenerate immediate-gratification wastrel junkie weasel wannabees say the same?

[/ QUOTE ]


antisocial - I fail to see how your win-rate in online-poker or your dislike for other 2+2'ers has anything to do with the issue at hand.
In case you forgot, the issue we are discussing is about a bunch of drunken railbirds behaving even more inappropriately than normal and how this general raucous railbird behavior is getting a bit out of hand.


The issue of your obvious poker-greatness and how much awesomer you are vs. all other 2+2'ers combined really doesn't have much to do with this. Feel free to start your own thread about this topic in BBV though.

[/ QUOTE ]



My first post was entirely related to the subject at hand, maybe you ought to go back through the thread.

As is often the case in here some moron decided to attack me for voicing my opinion on a particular aspect of tournament poker I really don't like.

Naturally since I am so completely superior to the new generation of attention starved adolescent wankers and wannabees who typically can't find it within themselves to be gracious toward someone busted out on a bad beat, I felt compelled to say a few things that have been on my mind.

[blah_blah]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


fwiw I've played as high as nl2k before and I can confidently say that every pot you collude to win in is twice as sweet.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you admit you're a scumbag cheat like just about every other internet punk who cleaned up during the halcyon days of online poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

pretty sick that my entree that night was worth more than your entire roll; lobster seasoned in the tears of microstakes fish is my favorite.

[ QUOTE ]
Naturally since I am so completely superior to the new generation of attention starved adolescent wankers and wannabees who typically can't find it within themselves to be gracious toward someone busted out on a bad beat, I felt compelled to say a few things that have been on my mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

it has to be aspergers, right? right? only someone with aspergers could be convinced that being an antisocial retard is better than having a sick amount of money before you turn 20.

[NewTeaBag]

[ QUOTE ]
<u>Poker Showboating</u>

Just as I dislike the end zone showboating dances in football, I hate the screaming-jump-around-the-table showboating of poker tournaments (or cash games on the occasions I have seen it).

When you have just busted your opponent, I think it is great class if you control your outbursts and just shake your opponent's hand and say 'good game' - even if your opponent is a whiny loser. But if you have to jump up and scream and basically piss on your opponent's beat, I think that is low class. If you need to scream and jump up and down, then run to the restroom and get in the stall and do your little dance.

I understand the need to celebrate but at least wait until the person you just busted has left - or run off somewhere and let it all out. Maybe being on camera makes a lot of people lose themselves...who knows.

Just a newbies opinion. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

QFMFT

[CincyLady]

For those saying it wouldn't be mentioned (about drunken railbird supporters) if a guy was involved ...

http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/2007-wsop/event-55-world-championship-no-limit-holdem/day6/

[ QUOTE ]

4 minutes ago | Posted by DrPauly

A Concerned Wife
Jon Kalmar's wife called her husband over. She said something to the effect that his drunken friends were making him look bad. Over the last hour, they have been screaming, yelling, and even cursing while hands are in progress. They have not be escorted from the area, but Kalmar had to tell them to chill out a couple of times.

Aside from Kalmar's rowdy and drunken railbirds, it's been relatively quiet.



[/ QUOTE ]

[NewTeaBag]

Notice the difference. The calm Englishman player realizes he has a responsibility WRT his supporters to tell them to calm down, and he does it.

So who was it that posted?
[ QUOTE ]
I blame the Euros...

[/ QUOTE ]

Amusing, considering that the only player reported to have taken positive action in this type of instance is from The UK.

[QTrips]

Interesting thread... from this old lady's perspective. Wow.. where to start... lol

Don't you suppose this is the exact reason they sequestered Hellmuth's final table when he got his 11th?? I think I read the players were only allowed 1 guest/family member railing.

Many complained... but Hellmuth mentioned that he thought it was 'refreshing' and a much more friendly and relaxed atmosphere. I agree. When you're playing for those kind of stakes... drunken frat boy behavior is totally out of line. The whole situation is tense enough as it is.

To CincyLady: The main reason I 'resigned' myself from playing local 'home games' once I signed up... was that once I read through their online forums... I was so grossed out I was no longer interested. It was mostly young men who went waaaay out of their way to be as disgusting and gross as possible online... so WHY would I want to play with them 'live'? Really filthy language and gross avatars, etc... Uh.. no thanks. Unless they come up with a nice friendly game/tour somewhere.. I'll stick to playing onliine. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

For the most part.. you don't see the high stakes pros acting like this. Sure.. Matasow has his mouth.. and Hellmuth has his tantrums.. but that's their 'schtick' and their marketing reps think it's entertaining I guess. [it's not] But you'll ALSO notice that they limit the railbirds [if any] and they are not carrying on like a bunch of drunken goons. I suspect they'd be ejected ASAP because of TV.

Face it CincyLady... we could be talking about ANY televised sport here.

Sports + Alcoholic Sponsors = Drunks. Period.

Now as soon as Depends sponsors a decent tourney.. I'm all over it! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[TwistedEcho]

A few of kalmer's friends were escourted out of the poker room while they were sweating the final table. They were warned if they kept shouting mid-hand they would be kicked out, and they were.

Obviously its no excuse, but again they were ridic drunk while railing.

[GreywolfNYC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Posses of current/ex/wannabe fratboys bug me in the first place. Add free beer, and as in the outside world it's a recipe for disaster.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the winner.

[/ QUOTE ]
Correct. End of story.

[zerocarb]

[ QUOTE ]
We're talking about a game that for decades was mostly populated by degens, criminals, hustlers, and confined to back room illegal status. Someone please, find me this moment in history when poker was a game of all class and gentlemen.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFTruthiness

[antisocialgrace]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


fwiw I've played as high as nl2k before and I can confidently say that every pot you collude to win in is twice as sweet.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you admit you're a scumbag cheat like just about every other internet punk who cleaned up during the halcyon days of online poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

pretty sick that my entree that night was worth more than your entire roll; lobster seasoned in the tears of microstakes fish is my favorite.

[ QUOTE ]
Naturally since I am so completely superior to the new generation of attention starved adolescent wankers and wannabees who typically can't find it within themselves to be gracious toward someone busted out on a bad beat, I felt compelled to say a few things that have been on my mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

it has to be aspergers, right? right? only someone with aspergers could be convinced that being an antisocial retard is better than having a sick amount of money before you turn 20.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically anyone who doesn't avail themselves of any tactic or ploy to divest someone of every last cent they have is a loser and a sucker, is that about right?

To be honest--work with me here--I'm not sure who I'm more disgusted by .. you degenerate [censored] with no ethics or pangs of conscience about shamelessly cheating and exploiting your way to every immediate gratification your cold little heart desires...

or the plebs like me who were raised to believe it's inherently wrong to take advantage of people that way.

You know I've never had much in my life and I've never been very happy about it. I'm not sure why, it's probably the Christian in me or maybe it's just the neurotic, but I've tried not to let this turn me into a total scumbag misanthrope ungoverned by any sort of social restraint or propriety. I've been disoriented plenty of times by my moral compass, but I'd like to think I've never gone so far out of my way I could never find it back.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't resentful that people like you who've undoubtedly been dealt much better hands as it were and likely started out pretty far ahead, still nonetheless found themselves looking for any shortcut to get where they wanted to go .. no matter how unscrupulous or underhanded.

It's pretty disgusting but someone like you must revel in that disgust and even find it amusing.

To each his own I guess.

I'd say good luck but I don't guess you need it.

[GotQuads]

I don't understand why this is such a big deal.

Online some people call you wanker or jew after sucking out and live it's not even allowed to be happy to win a pot? If you get emotional about losing a single hand you shouldn't play poker imo, because losing is unfortunately standard in tournament poker.

I also agree with someone who said this thread wouldn't exist if the woman were ugly.

[antisocialgrace]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We're talking about a game that is mostly populated by degens, criminals, hustlers.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[GambleAB]

On an unrelated note, I often do the Ickey Shuffle when I bowl a turkey in my bowling league.

[RacersEdge]

[ QUOTE ]
Poker never had good manners and class. It's had individuals with good manners and class. But, the game as a whole has been heavily populated by rude people for a long time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. This ain't the British Open.

[sledghammer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the point is I'm winning on the up and up, a little more than couch change as it were. can you and your fellow 2+2 punkass degenerate immediate-gratification wastrel junkie weasel wannabees say the same?

[/ QUOTE ]

have you ever met a 2p2er? (what with your social limitations and all)

I've met and partied with a fair number of MSNL/HSNL/MTTC 2p2ers and all of them were super chill guys fwiw. I've xferred/coinflipped thousands of dollars with 2p2ers and never worried about being scammed/grimmstar'd. ActionJeff and another 2p2er paid a $2000 dinner tab without ever having met some of the guys there (like me) before that day.

fwiw I've played as high as nl2k before and I can confidently say that every pot you collude to win in is twice as sweet.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF is this?

[ActionJeff]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the point is I'm winning on the up and up, a little more than couch change as it were. can you and your fellow 2+2 punkass degenerate immediate-gratification wastrel junkie weasel wannabees say the same?

[/ QUOTE ]

have you ever met a 2p2er? (what with your social limitations and all)

I've met and partied with a fair number of MSNL/HSNL/MTTC 2p2ers and all of them were super chill guys fwiw. I've xferred/coinflipped thousands of dollars with 2p2ers and never worried about being scammed/grimmstar'd. ActionJeff and another 2p2er paid a $2000 dinner tab without ever having met some of the guys there (like me) before that day.

fwiw I've played as high as nl2k before and I can confidently say that every pot you collude to win in is twice as sweet.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you admit you're a scumbag cheat like just about every other internet punk who cleaned up during the halcyon days of online poker?
If his behavior on Stars is any indication, I would guess $2k doesn't even begin to touch what "Action Jeff" has amassed in typical 2+2 scumbag fashion.



[/ QUOTE ]

what the [censored] is that supposed to mean? What is this BS? I'll take your [censored] head off.

[greggg230]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the point is I'm winning on the up and up, a little more than couch change as it were. can you and your fellow 2+2 punkass degenerate immediate-gratification wastrel junkie weasel wannabees say the same?

[/ QUOTE ]

have you ever met a 2p2er? (what with your social limitations and all)

I've met and partied with a fair number of MSNL/HSNL/MTTC 2p2ers and all of them were super chill guys fwiw. I've xferred/coinflipped thousands of dollars with 2p2ers and never worried about being scammed/grimmstar'd. ActionJeff and another 2p2er paid a $2000 dinner tab without ever having met some of the guys there (like me) before that day.

fwiw I've played as high as nl2k before and I can confidently say that every pot you collude to win in is twice as sweet.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you admit you're a scumbag cheat like just about every other internet punk who cleaned up during the halcyon days of online poker?
If his behavior on Stars is any indication, I would guess $2k doesn't even begin to touch what "Action Jeff" has amassed in typical 2+2 scumbag fashion.



[/ QUOTE ]

what the [censored] is that supposed to mean? What is this BS? I'll take your [censored] head off.



[/ QUOTE ]

ActionJeff said he'd knock your teeth out. (Hoping someone gets the reference . . .)

[blah_blah]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


fwiw I've played as high as nl2k before and I can confidently say that every pot you collude to win in is twice as sweet.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF is this?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.supplierlist.com/photo_images/7007/Spirit_Level.jpg