Players who cannot fold A-K preflop deep in the WSOP ME?

[Donkey-Milker]

shocks me. it's really not that hard. it's just a drawing hand lol ffs.

Dag Martin Mikkelsen Eliminated in 42nd Place ($237,865)

Preflop, Dag Martin Mikkelsen raises to 150,000 in the cutoff and David Tran reraises to 500,000 on the button. Mikkelsen three-bets all in for 2,600,000 with A-K and Tran calls with A-A. Mikkelsen is out and Tran is up to 8,400,000.

bb was 50k. could have been a re-steal... but come on.... he prob has a pair and you're fliping or a big underdog.... maybe just call pre and at least see a flop? no - raises all in. i don't get it... he had over 60 x bb and was in the top 10 in chips.

seen countless other HH's where people play it like it's aces. if you have a low stack then fine....

[Melchiades]

%¤#%¤&/%(/&(/&/&%&%¤/&&(/&

kill urself

[Clayton]

rainkhan told me tran was reraising preflop lightly, as such its an obvious shove. to assume otherwise given that information makes one a really weak player.

[Exitonly]

of all the examples of people horribly butchering AK preflop in this tournament, you picked an absolutely standard play.

[Donkey-Milker]

maybe call and see a flop?

or re-raise 1million to make it known that you're serious?

[Clayton]

no, and 1 million more is effectively a shove, so just shove

[krille]

[ QUOTE ]
maybe call and see a flop?

or re-raise 1million to make it known that you're serious?

[/ QUOTE ]

no

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

ahahahaha

this cant be serious right?

at least op is living up to his username

[Donkey-Milker]

fwiw i know who the player is and i know he is obv sick in tourneys so not slating him in general.

imo.. if he raises a million more and gets shoves on by a guy who covers him then he has to assume A-A or K-K. JJ and QQ aren't 4-betting it.

i know i'm being results orientated but i can honestly say if someone posted this as a HH with the re-raise i'd just call and get away on the flop.

guess i am a weak tight nit. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

also.. if i busted with KK vs AA then i'd chalk it up as a cooler and shrug. but this is different imo.

again... really nothign against this player so please be mature and discuss the strategies rather than hurling abuse. ty

[THAY3R]

I love people who fold AK to my 3 bets <3 <3 <3

[WarDekar]

[ QUOTE ]
I love people who fold AK to my 3 bets <3 <3 <3

[/ QUOTE ]

But I don't think it's ever actually happened /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Why do you and Shaun get such sick table draws?

[SEABEAST]

OP: YSSCKY

[mastr]

shhh everyone... don't tap the glass.
nice observation OP

[Donkey-Milker]

lol you lot can tell me i suck at poker... but i know my results and i am happy with them.

i can make laydowns.

but please prove you are older than 12 and talk about the hand..

[mastr]

nvmd gimmick account. oh well

[Rekwob]

you're guaranteed a sick payout, you want to make it to the final table and give yourself some chips, why wouldnt you play AK like the nuts now

[Foucault]

It's pretty rarely correct to fold AK preflop deep in anything.

[ciki57]

[ QUOTE ]
lol you lot can tell me i suck at poker... but i know my results and i am happy with them.

i can make laydowns.

but please prove you are older than 12 and talk about the hand..

[/ QUOTE ]

Phil Hellmuth?

[pegboy]

[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty rarely correct to fold AK preflop deep in anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK off ranks 12th statistically when played heads-up against the deck. That is to say that the following hands are ahead, albeit slightly as the list proceeds, in a toss...AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, AKs, 77, AQs, AJs. I realize we have some of these hands dominated but the list serves to explain that he's simply not holding a monster worthy of the ultimate gamble. Being in the top 10 players at the WSOP ME when there are only 40 remaining I don't think it should be that hard to fold the hand to avoid a coin toss crippling.

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
it's just a drawing hand

[/ QUOTE ]No it's not.

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
AK off ranks 12th statistically when played heads-up against the deck. That is to say that the following hands are ahead, albeit slightly as the list proceeds, in a toss...AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, AKs, 77, AQs, AJs.

[/ QUOTE ]/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[BrandiFan]

[ QUOTE ]
lol you lot can tell me i suck at poker... but i know my results and i am happy with them.

i can make laydowns.

but please prove you are older than 12 and talk about the hand..

[/ QUOTE ]So, what you're really saying is "I can dodge bullets baby!"

[oyvindgee]

Jesus this thread is dumb. Grats to dmmikkel for making it so far. This hand is obv super standard and OP sucks. /thread

[BrandiFan]

[ QUOTE ]
AK off ranks 12th statistically when played heads-up against the deck. That is to say that the following hands are ahead, albeit slightly as the list proceeds, in a toss...AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, AKs, 77, AQs, AJs.

[/ QUOTE ]To quote BarryG quoting I forget who, "There's no sense being precise when you don't know what you're talking about."

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]


or re-raise 1million to make it known that you're serious?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where you need to just look him in the eye and tell him you're serious.

[oyvindgee]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AK off ranks 12th statistically when played heads-up against the deck. That is to say that the following hands are ahead, albeit slightly as the list proceeds, in a toss...AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, AKs, 77, AQs, AJs.

[/ QUOTE ]To quote BarryG quoting I forget who, "There's no sense being precise when you don't know what you're talking about."

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty rarely correct to fold AK preflop deep in anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK off ranks 12th statistically when played heads-up against the deck. That is to say that the following hands are ahead, albeit slightly as the list proceeds, in a toss...AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, AKs, 77, AQs, AJs.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is misleading, because 99 crushes 62o, but AK doesn't. Even though half of "the deck" is undercards, we need to throw them out of the analysis.

[Donkey-Milker]

nope.... sorry.

if you lose with KK to AA or AA to JJ or something then you can say "ah - wasn't ym day - nothing i could do about it".

but getting all in with A-K with that stack compared tot he blinds is criminal imo. the guy had him dominated. what was he hoping him to have? a-j or a-q? i doubt these would re-raise pre would/should obv fold to his shove.

but even if you got called by 9-9 and lost... i still don't get how you could say "i played it well - got al my chips in on a coinflip".

as i said... if his stack was short then it is totally different. but this was a wasted chance at the big one imo.

so stop flaming and tell me why it is correct to get it all in with just A-K?

[SuperUberBob]

omg donk you are so wrong in so many ways that it's sickening. Good players love people like you because they take all of your money.

[ligastar]

[ QUOTE ]
omg donk you are so wrong in so many ways that it's sickening. Good players love people like you because they take all of your money.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's asking for insight and your acting like a pompous jackass. Don't even bother posting if you can't say anything constructive. The guy is trying to advance his game you clown.

[ilushan]

Well, it's so easy. Sorry, guys, I'll try to explain because otherwise OP will last forever.

He had a read that villain was 3-betting light. He had a strong hand. He wanted respect for his raises. He wanted to put a villain to a test if he had 99 or 1010. He didn't mind a coinflip this late in the tournament if villain had balls to call with middle pair.

It's basic late tournament strategy. Especially for the guys who are laughing at you in this thread. They made a lot of money thanks to the guys who are folding AK or calling OOP in this spot.

Sorry, Scott/mastr. I just can't stand it /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Chump Change]

[ QUOTE ]
so stop flaming and tell me why it is correct to get it all in with just A-K?

[/ QUOTE ]

CUZ U GOT AN ACE!!

AND A KING!!!!!!


AND ACE AND A MOTHER [censored] KING!!!!!!

[Dunkman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
omg donk you are so wrong in so many ways that it's sickening. Good players love people like you because they take all of your money.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's asking for insight and your acting like a pompous jackass. Don't even bother posting if you can't say anything constructive. The guy is trying to advance his game you clown.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the risk of being leveled, and trying to talk strategy somewhere it obviously doesn't belong, I'll try to explain it to OP. Ok, so it folds to Dag in the CO. Dag is extremely aggressive, and I'd bet he's taking a shot at the blinds here at least 30% of the time, maybe more like 50% (hell maybe ATC,) but we'll say 30% to be conservative. Tran knows this, so he could be reraising as a bluff, and even if not he can raise top 10-15% of hands for value in this spot. Dag knows AK is at the tip top of his range. He knows Tran is reraising top 10% at the very least here. However, Dag also probably feels that Tran is at least competent, and playing postflop OOP with AK will be tricky. Also, Dag knows that given Tran's wide reraising range, he can shove AK for value. Tran may call him light thinking Dag is making a move, he'll most likely fold, but even if not, AK crushes Tran's reraising range. Unfortunately for Dag, AA was in Tran's range. However, Tran shows up with AA here about 1-2% of the time. It was just really bad luck for Dag, but a totally standard play.

[Rekwob]

dmmikkel is probably opening 50-60% of his hands here and tran knows this, so tran should be reraising him with hands AK crushes, dmm doesnt want to call and have no clue where hes at on the flop, so he shoves since hes only in really bad shape against AA or KK, and a coinflip is a +EV move for him because hes going to be more than 2x as profitable with double the chips (plus the chips in the pot already)

all this makes his play so super standard for anyone whos good and playing for first

[ QUOTE ]
He's asking for insight and your acting like a pompous jackass. Don't even bother posting if you can't say anything constructive. The guy is trying to advance his game you clown.

[/ QUOTE ]

you'd think someone would at least figure out when a bunch of top players agree with the play, its probably correct

[oyvindgee]

[ QUOTE ]
nope.... sorry.

if you lose with KK to AA or AA to JJ or something then you can say "ah - wasn't ym day - nothing i could do about it".

but getting all in with A-K with that stack compared tot he blinds is criminal imo. the guy had him dominated. what was he hoping him to have? a-j or a-q? i doubt these would re-raise pre would/should obv fold to his shove.

but even if you got called by 9-9 and lost... i still don't get how you could say "i played it well - got al my chips in on a coinflip".

as i said... if his stack was short then it is totally different. but this was a wasted chance at the big one imo.

so stop flaming and tell me why it is correct to get it all in with just A-K?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are probably too dumb to understand this but I'm hungover and have nothing better to do.

I'm gonna make some assumptions that are almost certainly correct.

1. Mikkelsen is a good tournament player that will open a pretty wide range in the CO, especially with his stack.

2. Button knows this and is probably from time to time gonna reraise him with marginal holdings to pick up the pot preflop. This is a very standard move. Earlier in the thread, Clayton said Tran was indeed capable of this. You are stating in your post that you doubt AQ/AJ would reraise preflop. If you're gonna argue that point you are a lost case and you can stop reading.

So, when Tran has reraised, there is 750k in the pot which would represent a 30% increase in Mikkelsen's stack. Lets say Tran's range is something like 88+, AJo+, ATs+, KQs, T9s and 98s to account for random steal hands. Believe me, it could be way wider than that. If he only calls with JJ+, AK+, he will fold 62.5% of the time winning Mikkelsen the pot. The remaining 37.5% Mikkelsen will have 40% equity.

37.5% of the time, Mikkelsen will lose an average of 330k
62.5% of the time, he will win 750k

The stupididty in passing up an edge of more than 10 BB is obv not even debatable.

[Rekwob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love people who fold AK to my 3 bets <3 <3 <3

[/ QUOTE ]

But I don't think it's ever actually happened /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Why do you and Shaun get such sick table draws?

[/ QUOTE ]

come play in the uk, people fold AK to open raises :*)

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
The stupididty in passing up an edge of more than 10 BB is obv not even debatable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but what if you have to put your TOURNAMENT LIFE ON THE LINE?


HUH?

[oyvindgee]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The stupididty in passing up an edge of more than 10 BB is obv not even debatable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but what if you have to put your TOURNAMENT LIFE ON THE LINE?


HUH?

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn you, nobody would have noticed!

[UpstateMatt]

[ QUOTE ]
nope.... sorry.

if you lose with KK to AA or AA to JJ or something then you can say "ah - wasn't ym day - nothing i could do about it".

but getting all in with A-K with that stack compared tot he blinds is criminal imo. the guy had him dominated. what was he hoping him to have? a-j or a-q? i doubt these would re-raise pre would/should obv fold to his shove.

but even if you got called by 9-9 and lost... i still don't get how you could say "i played it well - got al my chips in on a coinflip".

as i said... if his stack was short then it is totally different. but this was a wasted chance at the big one imo.

so stop flaming and tell me why it is correct to get it all in with just A-K?

[/ QUOTE ]

um, you seem to be missing the point: when you shove it in with AK here, you're expecting a lot of fold equity.

I mean, the way you're talking, I assume you think it's crazy to call a 3-bet all-in with 22-JJ, because "you're just a flip or dominated." Given that logic, doesn't AK have a TON of fold equity here?

/wasting my time on idiocy

[LuckyLloyd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love people who fold AK to my 3 bets <3 <3 <3

[/ QUOTE ]

But I don't think it's ever actually happened /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Why do you and Shaun get such sick table draws?

[/ QUOTE ]

come play in the uk, people fold AK to open raises :*)

[/ QUOTE ]

That's funny. In Ireland KQs is played like it is the stone colds.

But the two times I played tournaments in the UK I was shocked at how weak tight the average player was. Very disturbing (and wonderful - "I raise" /images/graemlins/grin.gif).

[Donkey-Milker]

no i get it now. a big part of the reason for shoving all in is the times that the opponent will fold and you will pick up his bet + the blinds for a nice pot.

as for what his opponent would have folded to his shove... JJ and QQ maybe? who knows..

also... just to be clear.. if the roles were reversed and dmikkel had re-raised with the A-K to an opening raise...

would this be a bad call? just because there is no fold equity (obv) ?

ty and sorry if it sounded as though i was calling him an idiot.

[WarDekar]

[ QUOTE ]
no i get it now. a big part of the reason for shoving all in is the times that the opponent will fold and you will pick up his bet + the blinds for a nice pot.

as for what his opponent would have folded to his shove... JJ and QQ maybe? who knows..

also... just to be clear.. if the roles were reversed and dmikkel had re-raised with the A-K to an opening raise...

would this be a bad call? just because there is no fold equity (obv) ?

ty and sorry if it sounded as though i was calling him an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still trying to figure out if I'm being leveled here....

[gutte169]

[ QUOTE ]
but even if you got called by 9-9 and lost... i still don't get how you could say "i played it well - got al my chips in on a coinflip getting paid better than 1 to 1 so it's a positive EV wager, and if they both fold you increase your stack by around 33% "

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, I could see myself being happy saying this if I lost out. But I'd be way happier with about 5,000,000 and a double up a way from the chip lead. I hope it's clear why this is standard now.

[Donkey-Milker]

ok so it's profitable due to the hcips you already have in there.

what about if a guy just random shoves as an opening raise for your stack? now you have nothing invested but obv blinds and antes are in. -EV now?

[Hurrrr]

[ QUOTE ]

as for what his opponent would have folded to his shove... JJ and QQ maybe? who knows..

[/ QUOTE ]

Christ no. Based on DMMK's image, he might have a tough fold with 99, TT, and certainly with a decent number of other stealing hands, but JJ+, AK is almost certainly Tran's calling range in this spot and if anything, it might be a little wider.

[Chump Change]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The stupididty in passing up an edge of more than 10 BB is obv not even debatable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but what if you have to put your TOURNAMENT LIFE ON THE LINE?


HUH?

[/ QUOTE ]



[ QUOTE ]
AN ACE!!

AND A KING!!!!!!


AND ACE AND A MOTHER [censored] KING!!!!!!


[/ QUOTE ]

[FishSticks]

I didn't read all the responses, but I can say that in my home $0.05/$0.10 game if I open AK to $0.30 and someone repops it to a full dollar, it's a super standard automuck for me.

[Eaglesfan1]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't read all the responses, but I can say that in my home $0.05/$0.10 game if I open AK to $0.30 and someone repops it to a full dollar, it's a super standard automuck for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha

[adanthar]

the trick to threads like this is they have to be posted when the good posters are off in other forums, leaving this one simmering in its own idiocy.

in other words, you ran into a forum 3 bet son

[gutte169]

[ QUOTE ]
ok so it's profitable due to the hcips you already have in there.

what about if a guy just random shoves as an opening raise for your stack? now you have nothing invested but obv blinds and antes are in. -EV now?

[/ QUOTE ]

1) It was profitable due to the chips you have in there AND your folding equity.

2) If someone just open pushes, it IS still +EV because of the blinds and antes, but not near as much so (again, assuming exactly 99). An argument (not a very good one) could be made for folding here (if you 'know' he has 99) only because the EV here is quite small, and your stack is big enough to where you might find a better situation later without risking your whole stack.

[Warteen]

[ QUOTE ]
ok so it's profitable due to the hcips you already have in there.

what about if a guy just random shoves as an opening raise for your stack? now you have nothing invested but obv blinds and antes are in. -EV now?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the guy has been shoving a lot, your AK probably is way better than what he's holding. Also, don't discount the value of the antes - they add up a lot, especially in later levels.
However, if the player's shove is totally unwarranted (he has well over 10x the big blind and you do as well), you can call or fold, depending on how tight you'd like to be. Reasonably, though, there's little excuse for not getting the money in with AK if the situation is right. You'll have to be willing to take +EV risks like this if you want to be a good tourney player.

[willie]

jv was saying yesterday how dag just flattened whatever table he was at

if a guy is running over the table, occassionally he is goign to get 3 bet by quite the large range of hands.

He has enough to make tran lay down a lot of hands w/ his shove w/ ak'

the hand is SO standard.

[Bidz]

[ QUOTE ]
in other words, you ran into a forum 3 bet son

[/ QUOTE ]
awesome

[Dan87]

AK is the nuts in an over aggro low M game

gotta gambool to win

[Squareview]

he plays REALLY good poker OP. this is standard. just got unlucky

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
what about if a guy just random shoves as an opening raise for your stack? now you have nothing invested but obv blinds and antes are in. -EV now?

[/ QUOTE ]In late stages of a tournament this is USUALLY a call because people will be open pushing with AQ and other hands you have dominated.

However, if a tight player whose only played the nuts open shoves UTG, you can probably fold AK.

Earlier on in the tournament where you are really deep and players aren't under pressure (real or imaged) to open push then you would fold AK.

[TehVader]

I /images/graemlins/heart.gif this thread

[CincyLady]

[ QUOTE ]
shocks me. it's really not that hard. it's just a drawing hand lol ffs.

Dag Martin Mikkelsen Eliminated in 42nd Place ($237,865)

Preflop, Dag Martin Mikkelsen raises to 150,000 in the cutoff and David Tran reraises to 500,000 on the button. Mikkelsen three-bets all in for 2,600,000 with A-K and Tran calls with A-A. Mikkelsen is out and Tran is up to 8,400,000.

bb was 50k. could have been a re-steal... but come on.... he prob has a pair and you're fliping or a big underdog.... maybe just call pre and at least see a flop? no - raises all in. i don't get it... he had over 60 x bb and was in the top 10 in chips.

seen countless other HH's where people play it like it's aces. if you have a low stack then fine....

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I layed down AK last week at the final table at Binions, and I even showed it (I wanted to give an image of being very tight as well), and you should of heard the gasps.

I was in the BB, and the UTG (who was 2nd in chips) raised it up to half my stack (I wasn't short stacked).

I knew if I played it would be for all my chips, so I layed it down.

Good thing, because the UTG shocked that I layed it down (and showed it), turned over AA.

[Hurrrr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
shocks me. it's really not that hard. it's just a drawing hand lol ffs.

Dag Martin Mikkelsen Eliminated in 42nd Place ($237,865)

Preflop, Dag Martin Mikkelsen raises to 150,000 in the cutoff and David Tran reraises to 500,000 on the button. Mikkelsen three-bets all in for 2,600,000 with A-K and Tran calls with A-A. Mikkelsen is out and Tran is up to 8,400,000.

bb was 50k. could have been a re-steal... but come on.... he prob has a pair and you're fliping or a big underdog.... maybe just call pre and at least see a flop? no - raises all in. i don't get it... he had over 60 x bb and was in the top 10 in chips.

seen countless other HH's where people play it like it's aces. if you have a low stack then fine....

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I layed down AK last week at the final table at Binions, and I even showed it (I wanted to give an image of being very tight as well), and you should of heard the gasps.

I was in the BB, and the UTG (who was 2nd in chips) raised it up to half my stack (I wasn't short stacked).

I knew if I played it would be for all my chips, so I layed it down.

Good thing, because the UTG shocked that I layed it down (and showed it), turned over AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Results oriented much?

[SumZero]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, I layed down AK last week at the final table at Binions, and I even showed it (I wanted to give an image of being very tight as well), and you should of heard the gasps.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that it is totally situation dependent, but think OP's hand was very standard. I laid down AKo to a raise at a live final table yesterday. Everyone was fairly short stacked and playing the very live tight style. Most of the table was only playing phil style poker with 77+,AQ+. With no antes UTG open pushed all-in for ~7 BB (this was around the typical stack size). I had about 15-20 BB and AKo in UTG+1. I was abusing the table with raises and liked my stack size and didn't like getting involved for a significant number of chips with the whole rest of the table left to act. My fold was probably too weak tight, but that's my style. Of course 3 hands latter I pushed with 74s in the SB and got the BB to fold with only 2 BB left behind! I pushed in the CO and LP and got no callers. So my lay down was partially under the knowledge that I'd have later better opportunities as long as I kept my stack size what it was. In a tournament with better people left I'd have been forced to repop with my AKo hand.

[kemystery]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AK off ranks 12th statistically when played heads-up against the deck. That is to say that the following hands are ahead, albeit slightly as the list proceeds, in a toss...AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, AKs, 77, AQs, AJs.

[/ QUOTE ]/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


lol

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AK off ranks 12th statistically when played heads-up against the deck. That is to say that the following hands are ahead, albeit slightly as the list proceeds, in a toss...AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, AKs, 77, AQs, AJs.

[/ QUOTE ]/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


lol

[/ QUOTE ]

my worst nightmare is being called by AQ when I have AK

[suzzer99]

Kneel, AQs. Big difference there.

[Ckrad]

HE still had enough fold equity to make the AK shove good. He probably gets folds form pairs JJ and down, and obviously wins the pot right there vs AQ and down.

[THAY3R]

ZOMG TOURNAMENT LIFEEEEE

This thread shows exactly why tourneys are so profitable.

[dogsballs]

ok, what do you lot say to this AK laydown? I wasnt sure at teh time. (cant remember exact blinds/stacks, but I was either commiting or mucking.

Late in wsop event 38 (i think); $1500 NLH. Down to about 500 from 2800 starters; about 280 or whatever get paid. I have an average stack on the button.

Slightly loose UTG w smallish stack raises; then seemingly tight young guy in MP w big stack RR's. MP doesnt know UTG is loose; I know 'cos loosie and I recently got moved from a different table, but he's actually folded all previous hands at this new table. Folded to me. I mulled a bit and mucked. very likely no FE vs shortie and I'm a bit worried about MP possible holding.

With a smaller stack, I prolly go with it, since I'd need to move, but an average stack I decided to let it go and wait for a different spot. I was flip-flopping and second guessing myself tho.

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

dogs - sounds fine.... huge difference tho

[SuperUberBob]

[ QUOTE ]
ok, what do you lot say to this AK laydown? I wasnt sure at teh time. (cant remember exact blinds/stacks, but I was either commiting or mucking.

Late in wsop event 38 (i think); $1500 NLH. Down to about 500 from 2800 starters; about 280 or whatever get paid. I have an average stack on the button.

Slightly loose UTG w smallish stack raises; then seemingly tight young guy in MP w big stack RR's. MP doesnt know UTG is loose; I know 'cos loosie and I recently got moved from a different table, but he's actually folded all previous hands at this new table. Folded to me. I mulled a bit and mucked. very likely no FE vs shortie and I'm a bit worried about MP possible holding.

With a smaller stack, I prolly go with it, since I'd need to move, but an average stack I decided to let it go and wait for a different spot. I was flip-flopping and second guessing myself tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

This hand could go either way. Really depends on the blinds at this stage of the tournament.

Anyways, this is different because the raise came from UTG and a call of a UTG from MP. The other one was a steal attempt from a big stack. The re-raise with AK was standard here since it is way ahead of a steal range.

[DoGGz]

This post gives me hope that poker will always be hugely profitable.

[NeedATimeMachine]

[ QUOTE ]
the trick to threads like this is they have to be posted when the good posters are off in other forums, leaving this one simmering in its own idiocy.

in other words, you ran into a forum 3 bet son

[/ QUOTE ]


lol i /images/graemlins/heart.gif adanthar

[DannyOcean_]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree, I layed down AK last week at the final table at Binions, and I even showed it (I wanted to give an image of being very tight as well), and you should of heard the gasps.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that it is totally situation dependent, but think OP's hand was very standard. I laid down AKo to a raise at a live final table yesterday. Everyone was fairly short stacked and playing the very live tight style. Most of the table was only playing phil style poker with 77+,AQ+. With no antes UTG open pushed all-in for ~7 BB (this was around the typical stack size). I had about 15-20 BB and AKo in UTG+1. I was abusing the table with raises and liked my stack size and didn't like getting involved for a significant number of chips with the whole rest of the table left to act. My fold was probably too weak tight, but that's my style. Of course 3 hands latter I pushed with 74s in the SB and got the BB to fold with only 2 BB left behind! I pushed in the CO and LP and got no callers. So my lay down was partially under the knowledge that I'd have later better opportunities as long as I kept my stack size what it was. In a tournament with better people left I'd have been forced to repop with my AKo hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

YOU

FOLDED

AK

FOR

7

MOTHER

[censored]

BB'S

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

[benza13]

[ QUOTE ]
This post gives me hope that poker will always be hugely profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the ME sweat thread, you'll feel even better.

[Dan87]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree, I layed down AK last week at the final table at Binions, and I even showed it (I wanted to give an image of being very tight as well), and you should of heard the gasps.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that it is totally situation dependent, but think OP's hand was very standard. I laid down AKo to a raise at a live final table yesterday. Everyone was fairly short stacked and playing the very live tight style. Most of the table was only playing phil style poker with 77+,AQ+. With no antes UTG open pushed all-in for ~7 BB (this was around the typical stack size). I had about 15-20 BB and AKo in UTG+1. I was abusing the table with raises and liked my stack size and didn't like getting involved for a significant number of chips with the whole rest of the table left to act. My fold was probably too weak tight, but that's my style. Of course 3 hands latter I pushed with 74s in the SB and got the BB to fold with only 2 BB left behind! I pushed in the CO and LP and got no callers. So my lay down was partially under the knowledge that I'd have later better opportunities as long as I kept my stack size what it was. In a tournament with better people left I'd have been forced to repop with my AKo hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

YOU

FOLDED

AK

FOR

7

MOTHER

[censored]

BB'S

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

[/ QUOTE ]
there are 11 hands that beat it. He is like a 9% favourite to win so stfu

[MNoller]

[ QUOTE ]
With no antes UTG open pushed all-in for ~7 BB (this was around the typical stack size).

[/ QUOTE ]
That was me. I had KQs. Thanks bunches.

[sirdogstar]

[ QUOTE ]
Kneel, AQs. Big difference there.

[/ QUOTE ]

WP, sir.

/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[MrTimCaum]

[ QUOTE ]

I knew if I played it would be for all my chips, so I layed it down.

Good thing, because the UTG shocked that I layed it down (and showed it), turned over AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol donkaments

[greggg230]

[ QUOTE ]
Kneel, AQs. Big difference there.

[/ QUOTE ]

well the dangerous this about AQs is that it can make a flush, you see

[benza13]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Kneel, AQs. Big difference there.

[/ QUOTE ]

well the dangerous this about AQs is that it can make a flush, you see

[/ QUOTE ]

But AQo can make 2 flushes, obviously better

[greggg230]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Kneel, AQs. Big difference there.

[/ QUOTE ]

well the dangerous this about AQs is that it can make a flush, you see

[/ QUOTE ]

But AQo can make 2 flushes, obviously better

[/ QUOTE ]

A8o is actually the #1 hand heads-up, since it can make two flushes and every straight

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Kneel, AQs. Big difference there.

[/ QUOTE ]

well the dangerous this about AQs is that it can make a flush, you see

[/ QUOTE ]

But AQo can make 2 flushes, obviously better

[/ QUOTE ]

A8o is actually the #1 hand heads-up, since it can make two flushes and every straight

[/ QUOTE ]

amazingly, even if this was serious, it would be the third worst poster in the thread

[greggg230]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree, I layed down AK last week at the final table at Binions, and I even showed it (I wanted to give an image of being very tight as well), and you should of heard the gasps.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that it is totally situation dependent, but think OP's hand was very standard. I laid down AKo to a raise at a live final table yesterday. Everyone was fairly short stacked and playing the very live tight style. Most of the table was only playing phil style poker with 77+,AQ+. With no antes UTG open pushed all-in for ~7 BB (this was around the typical stack size). I had about 15-20 BB and AKo in UTG+1. I was abusing the table with raises and liked my stack size and didn't like getting involved for a significant number of chips with the whole rest of the table left to act. My fold was probably too weak tight, but that's my style. Of course 3 hands latter I pushed with 74s in the SB and got the BB to fold with only 2 BB left behind! I pushed in the CO and LP and got no callers. So my lay down was partially under the knowledge that I'd have later better opportunities as long as I kept my stack size what it was. In a tournament with better people left I'd have been forced to repop with my AKo hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

YOU

FOLDED

AK

FOR

7

MOTHER

[censored]

BB'S

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

[/ QUOTE ]

villain could have had AQs, to be fair