Nice combo draw - lead or C/R?

[Jouster777]

Villain new to table...no read

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

Hero (SB): $45.00
BB: $16.80
UTG: $31.30
MP: $15.00
CO: $21.05
BTN: $13.95

Preflop: Hero is dealt 6/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (6 Players)
UTG folds, MP calls $0.25, <font color="red">CO raises to $0.75</font>, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.65, BB folds, MP calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.50) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 Players)
Hero checks, MP checks, <font color="red">CO bets $1.50</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $26.75</font>

[paulnic]

why do u shove? i think u played this far to fast. i would raise to about $5 and see what he does. you are letting him get off easily here when u have a massive massive draw. i think u are only getting called by a set here when u really want top pair to call u and 2 pair.

[TheRenaissance]

I dont mind this, but prefer a normal raise.

[china_hard]

Read ama's well then bet-3bet AI.

[Jouster777]

[ QUOTE ]
when u really want top pair to call u and 2 pair.

[/ QUOTE ] No I don't. With a push EV vs. AK here is ~$4 for a fold and about ~$3.4 for a call.

I'll consider that I may have played it too fast/scared if someone wants to make that case...but only in the sense that I could have gotten more dead money in before going for the FE.

[paulnic]

i think this move is ok with just a flush/str8 draw but with a big combo draw like this i dont like it. u really think AK is going to call an all in here?? i think your better reraising him and if he shoves call.

[Baintz]

This is fine in my opinion, if he has set we have 40% equity, are flipping with 2 pair and a slight favourite over top pair. But more imporatantly, your shove looks exactly like what it is, a draw (rare to see a set played so fast), and top pair hands will sometimes call you thinking you have the 'obvious' flush draw. And of course you'll get a lot of olds on the flop too.

I like getting all my chips in with such a strong draw when my equity is highest, especially as we're OOP. It sucks when he calls a normal checkraise and the turn bricks.

I may lead for 1/2-2/3 pot here, depends on how I'd seen opponents responding. (e.g. will CO bet this flop if checked to and he whiffed? Will he raise a weak lead with an ace? with air?) It gives your self good odds, if MP stays around it gets more money in pot, and then if CO raises his ace we can 3-bet AI.

Edit: I fold this preflop. You say villain is new to table so I'm not 3 betting, he has only 84BBs and you're OOP.

[Jouster777]

My point is that I would rather do what I did than have to CALL an AI...I WANT A fold

jouster, I would prefer making a big reraise to 6 or 6.5$. Do you play sets, top 2 the same ? Villains are more likely to put you on a big draw. Also, you have position and likely are goind to get a free card if villain only calls a big flop raise from you.

[Baintz]

Why is this better with 'just' a flush or straight draw? We want folds when we do this, but when they call, we have much better equity against their calling range with such a strong draw., rather than just 8 or 9 outs.

By check shoving we also fold out those hands we have bad equity against, like KcQc. I know I said that shoving makes our hand look like a draw, I think nearly all villains wouldn't make the call with the nut draw, but many would with top pair, which we don't mind.

[Jouster777]

[ QUOTE ]
jouster, I would prefer making a big reraise to 6 or 6.5$. Do you play sets, top 2 the same ? Villains are more likely to put you on a big draw. Also, you have position and likely are goind to get a free card if villain only calls a big flop raise from you.

[/ QUOTE ]
Edit: deleted the part related to where I forgot I was OOP...thx Baintz

I will play sets this way occasionally when I have a read that villain is "able" to see it as a draw or is too active and will think that I'm just playing back.

[Baintz]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, you have position and likely are goind to get a free card if villain only calls a big flop raise from you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero is OOP.