The Pre-Flop Semi-Bluff Raise

[Capone]

I was reading No-Limit Theory and Practice and it just came to me, I really understand the concept of the pre-flop semi-bluff raise now. I want to enlighten those of you who don't quite get it yet, and also, to get some feedback on my view of the concept

Here we go:

The semi-bluff raise pre-flop is from my understanding a raise we make with a hand we would normally not call with (which doesnt have calling value).

For instance, say we are playing .25/.50 NL. An aggressive deepstacked opponent raises to $2, it is folded to us and we get 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif on the button. Now usually we would just fold this hand, but we can semi-bluff raise in hope for the opponent to fold his worst of holdings, re-raise if he accually has a monster, or call with anything in between.

So basically we are trying to win his raise, but if he calls, we are in position with a hand that could potentially flop a monster. If we miss, we can give up or c-bet to try to pick up the pot if he checks. If we hit a monster well we can extract. Notice how 75s was used in the example not a hand like KQs which has calling value. The whole point is that usually we would just fold 75, but since it has little calling value, we can semi-bluff raise in hope to win the raise or flop a monster.


Thank guys, I hope this helps a few people, and I hope I can get some feedback on my views, and hear what you guys think.

[PureNHL]

[ QUOTE ]
I was reading No-Limit Theory and Practice and it just came to me, I really understand the concept of the pre-flop semi-bluff raise now. I want to enlighten those of you who don't quite get it yet, and also, to get some feedback on my view of the concept

Here we go:

The semi-bluff raise pre-flop is from my understanding a raise we make with a hand we would normally not call with (which doesnt have calling value).

For instance, say we are playing .25/.50 NL. An aggressive deepstacked opponent raises to $2, it is folded to us and we get 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif on the button. Now usually we would just fold this hand, but we can semi-bluff raise in hope for the opponent to fold his worst of holdings, re-raise if he accually has a monster, or call with anything in between.

So basically we are trying to win his raise, but if he calls, we are in position with a hand that could potentially flop a monster. If we miss, we can give up or c-bet to try to pick up the pot if he checks. If we hit a monster well we can extract. Notice how 75s was used in the example not a hand like KQs which has calling value. The whole point is that usually we would just fold 75, but since it has little calling value, we can semi-bluff raise in hope to win the raise or flop a monster.


Thank guys, I hope this helps a few people, and I hope I can get some feedback on my views, and hear what you guys think.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like it and agree with almost everything you said. I'd be more likely to actually call with the 5/7s than I would the KQ, but would most likely never do this with either. I have used this sparingly and have had mixed success with it...mostly against weak tight-ish players.

[DaycareInferno]

i don't like 3betting sc, because i get raised out by the hands that i want to play against with them postflop.

[Capone]

a better example is qj suited has calling value. and q8s would be the type of hand to make this play with because you shouldnt call with it but you can raise in hope to win the raise.

[mertzo]

Im for light 3betting but this is way off and david sklansky doesnt anything about nlhe. 3betting KQs > 3betting 75s.

[Capone]

his example was Q8 suited.

[mertzo]

OMG your right o wait read op

[Capone]

lol. I mean this isn't a play to make regularly but I think its a cool weapon to add to your arsenal.

[mertzo]

lol you wrote OP =)

Yeah 3betting light is definatly something you will profit from and becomes more and more neccisary as you move up. But its more which players you use it against and how you play postflop rather than wich hands you 3bet with. Look for articles about the subject here on 2+2.

[Capone]

Could you name any off the top of your head?

And of course the you want to do this against weak/tights right? Loose players will just call to often.

[Knuckles]

In the small stakes sticky there is a poobah post about 3 betting lightly. It is very enlightening with a ton of feedback. I would start there.

[Capone]

Thanks knuckles appreciate it.

[Capone]

Im going on vacation so I'll be bring a few books with me, and printing out a ton of posts and what not.

[mertzo]

Printing posts > reading books, have a nice vec. =)

[Capone]

Thanks bro im not going for a couple weeks though :P /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Capone]

bedtime bump. Any comments appreciated =).

Anyone with links to other threads regarding this topic please post /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Thanks guys gnite.

[Event Duality]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't like 3betting sc, because i get raised out by the hands that i want to play against with them postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You better learn to love it, if you want to play higher stakes. If you only raise with monsters, it will make you easily exploitable. I'm not saying you have to do it every time, but at least get comfortable with the idea.

[Capone]

Yeah exactly its more of another line to use occassionally to mix things up not a regular move.

[Worm75]

Check out the FGators post in SSNL, talks about playing a SC OOP to a good players Button raise....many differing opinions on the way to play a SC deepstacked there, but pretty enlightening. step by step vs 2+2er (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=11144877&page=0&fpart=1& vc=1)

[rodders133]

I like this move, however, to get the initial raiser off his hand u need to bet $6 min. Double it and u will get a call. He may well check to you on flop, u can then take the free card if u have a nice draw. The beauty about it is there is no way he can put u on ur holding. I do this myself but very rarely. I dont like making this move with Q8 as they are too far apart and the raiser could possibly have AQ

[Antinome]

[ QUOTE ]
say we are playing .25/.50 NL. An aggressive <u>deepstacked</u> opponent raises to $2, it is folded to us and we get 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif5/images/graemlins/heart.gif on the button. Now usually we would just call this hand, but

[/ QUOTE ]

This is usually an easy call in position deepstacked versus an aggressive player.

I'd want some notion villain can fold before I raise- this is far too good a hand to get pushed out preflop if he has folding problems. I'm in the 'exploiting villain's natural tendencies' business; not the 'teaching villain to fold' business. Most villains do not fold too much in uNL. They call too much.

IMO 3betting light should be reserved for use against players who fold too much, 2+2ers, those who have special leaks in 3bet pots, to isolate with a hand that plays well HU in a 3bet pot but not multiway, or when your table image has gotten super-nitty.