NL50 Hand dealing with a TAG

[DirtDog]

Villain is something like 16/15/5 over 35 hands or so.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($21)
BB ($90.65)
Hero ($94.90)
MP ($98.80)
CO ($94.60)
Button ($48.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, MP calls $2, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>.

Flop: ($4.75) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $12</font>

Hero??

[tarheeljks]

your cbet looks like a bluff on this board so i would call

[Heine]

I like a call. Call a turn, and b/f the river.

Extract max value from AJ. And you loose the least against AK.

88 is a possibility, but a 15% pfr, makes me think he's just stealing your cbet. Because his PFR 3betting range likely includes AK.

[DirtDog]

ok I agree with you two, if anyone else disagrees with calling flop please let me know.

Moving on, how do you play this turn? Does anyone lead out here?

Turn: ($28.75) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $20</font>

[Heine]

Nope. Perfect turn.

Call that bet, And block the river. Fold to a raise.

[sightless]

bet small on this flop
2.50 or something

i call him down:/

[PRE]

[ QUOTE ]
Nope. Perfect turn.

Call that bet, And block the river. Fold to a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perfect turn? This is an easy fold on the turn. Flop is well played as you don't want to create a big pot with TPGK. The turn represents enormous strength from villian who wants to take your money. Fold

[DirtDog]

Im with PRE, i folded. What do others think?

[jessyj07]

I agree with PRE but I think call flop and c/f turn is spew because this guy is not slowing down once you call. He's going to try to convince you he has an 8 on the turn since you're 200bbs deep and he could've c/c'ed alot of hands with an 8 in them given how deep you are and you're raising UTG has alot of strength behind it in itself.

[SirFelixCat]

I cheated and looked at the responses this time :sheepish:.

That said, for those advocating a call on the flop and c/f the turn...what range are we putting villain on here that he calls with preflop. I mean, this guy simply doesn't have a call button, yet he smooth calls preflop? I'm a little confused by his line, to be honest, based on his stats. But it sure sounds like spew by calling the raise on the flop. What are we hoping to accomplish/hit on the turn?!?


Wait, only over 35 hands. And an AF of 5. I'm sorry fellas, but if he has a random 8, so be it. I'm calling the turn and blocking the river. I just don't think his range that he called with preflop is ahead of our hand.

I'd love more thoughts on this as I think this is a really interesting hand.

That said, for those advocating c/f'ing the turn...if OP had AK does that change your view?

[infinite_loop]

I'm not folding this flop. I think this is a call because he's unlikely to call a 3-bet with a worse hand.

[infinite_loop]

I call this turn. This was the perfect spot for a donk bet though.

[Heine]

[ QUOTE ]

Wait, only over 35 hands. And an AF of 5. I'm sorry fellas, but if he has a random 8, so be it. I'm calling the turn and blocking the river. I just don't think his range that he called with preflop is ahead of our hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point exactly. Granted this player is tight, but he either has quads, AK (which i think he 3 bets being 16-15) or this is someone playing a lower PP aggressively because he thinks he can get us to fold that ace or our PP.

I'd like to hear a good counter argument to calling the turn, and blocking the river, and a different one besides "he's tight."

[relativity_x]

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($21)
BB ($90.65)
Hero ($94.90)
MP ($98.80)
CO ($94.60)
Button ($48.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif, A /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero raises to $2, MP calls $2, 4 folds.

Flop: ($4.75) A /images/graemlins/club.gif, 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $4, MP raises to $12, Hero calls 8

Turn: ($28.75) 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $20, Hero???

[/ QUOTE ]

Flop:
You lead utg and hit a great flop. A88 rainbow is perfect. You cbet it and he raises you. Here his range is 66+,A8s+,AJo+,89s,78s.

Turn:
You played this hand perfectly if you only had a 100 BB. The thing is you don't, you both have 200 BB. The difference between 100 BB and 200 BB is you really don't want to get it in with TP2ndK with 200 BB.

The reason a check on the turn with 100BB is good here is because you check to induce a bluff (any under pair/anything else that might float) or get value from any lower ace. So if you only had 100 BB, you obviously cr this turn.

The problem is both of you are 200 bb deep, so you don't want to lose 200 BB with TP2ndK. On the turn this deep, you have to lead around 15. If he raises you then, you can fold.

As played, you're in a very tricky spot. If you call, the pot is going to be ~70 on the river, so you can count on the villain getting it in on the river. CRing this turn this deep is bad too because he's only calling with ak,trips,boat, or quads. So with the way you played it, I fold this turn.

[Heine]

Right relativity_x, I think we are too deep here to bet betting and calling raises against this fellows range.

I think his range is more like +22, A10s+, AJo+ and some bigger suited connectors. Some of these hands have an Ace, which is likely smaller than ours.

I could hear reasons for a c/c on the turn AND the river.

But i like a b/f because it allows us to control how much we put into the pot on the river.

[paulnic]

[ QUOTE ]
your cbet looks like a bluff on this board so i would call

[/ QUOTE ]

would an UTG raiser not have a big ace quite a lot of the time??? how does this look like a bluff?? he is representing the ace not the 8 surely?

[relativity_x]

cbets are common. When you raised UTG, you hope for an A88 board because that's beautiful (especially if you have an Ace).

Since this board is very dry, the villain could be floating/raising very lightly. Definitely an underpair, weaker ace,any broadway cards (depending on how light) because they don't believe he has an ace. The villain could also believe that the hero has an ace that he can't let go of, so the villain is trying to stack the opponent with a 78s,89s type of hand.

This is a pretty rough spot this deep, so I'd probably call/donk the turn and dump it to a raise.

[iwa]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a pretty rough spot this deep, so I'd probably call/donk the turn and dump it to a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this play here. Makes your decision easy. If he calls behind I'm probably c/c the river.