TT vs a decent player oo

[sightless]

villain is pretty decent limps a bit too much and doesnt raises enough pf but postflop he seems str8foward

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

Hero (SB): $50.80
BB: $45.50
UTG: $47.50
CO: $16.45
BTN: $45.95

Preflop: Hero is dealt T/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 Players)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $2.00</font>, CO calls $2.00, BTN folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $8.50</font>, BB folds, UTG calls $6.50, CO folds

Flop: ($19.50) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
HERO?

[HBomb]

Bet about 70% of pot, if raised, I think you can legitimately shove here with any 6, 10, or J being good live here.

[jessyj07]

Bet $14 and call a shove. We're only really worried about QQ/JJ here as he would probably reraise KK/AA and you said he calls to much preflop which means he could have AK/AQ here even with your large raise preflop.

[J.A.K.]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet $14 and call a shove. We're only really worried about QQ/JJ here as he would probably reraise KK/AA and you said he calls to much preflop which means he could have AK/AQ here even with your large raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my line as well. Are you shoving ANY turn if villain calls? With that read I don't think he survives the flop with AK/AQ and our 3bet pre. So if an A or K falls and we jam, QQ/JJ folds (I think). If the turn is a blank we still shove with our 8-10 outs and decent FE.

Oh yeah, and 1/2 our stack is in the pot on the flop.

[kylephilly]

grunch-

lead flop for about 15, call any shove.. you're repping AA or KK and may get him to fold JJ QQ, if not you have outs

[sightless]

is flop c/r all in a bad idea in this spot?

[ssdex]

I lead for 17, that way i'm committed to call a shove, i'm never folding here, ever, c/r is ok too, but then your pricing in villains overpair jj/qq once he bets... you get some fold equity by leading, and i'm positive if he gets money in your behind.

[kylephilly]

[ QUOTE ]
is flop c/r all in a bad idea in this spot?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the villain cbets with QQ or JJ, and we check raise he is priced in to call.. leading flop may get him to fold these hands.

[DonkeyKing]

I don't think you are getting your villan to fold w/ this play. It sounds like he loves his hand and is raising on something like KK. Either way leading out for 15 is just fine and calling a raise trying to get 1 of your 10 outs is just fine too. Nothing to worry about.

c/r all-in is probably the better play if you are trying to get him to lay down a huge pair.

[mrjetguy]

Bet 15, call if he shoves. With the draw I think this is pretty simple.

[ssdex]

c/r all in is the worst play if your trying to get him to fold a big pair, once he bets into this pot hes never folding at nl50

[Check_The_Nuts]

[ QUOTE ]
is flop c/r all in a bad idea in this spot?

[/ QUOTE ]

no I definitely check raise flop all in. First thought that came to mind.

Preflop is baaadddd IMO.

[sightless]

cool i just dont see many people folding qq-jj to the cbet on this flop

[Check_The_Nuts]

[ QUOTE ]
cool i just dont see many people folding qq-jj to the cbet on this flop

[/ QUOTE ]

your check raise is for value to get it in while you have good equity.

[sightless]

[ QUOTE ]


Preflop is baaadddd IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

flat call is better in this spot?
I figured the cold caller might deter UTG from calling with a lot of profitable hands ):

[ssdex]

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

71,280 games 0.031 secs 2,299,354 games/sec

Board: 7h 8d 9c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 68.788% 68.48% 00.30% 48816 216.00 { QQ-JJ }
Hand 1: 31.212% 30.91% 00.30% 22032 216.00 { TT }


This is why you have to lead big, your trying to get them to fold QQ/JJ b/c your equity is not good enough here for a c/r all in, if you go that line they are never folding, if you lead you do have more fold equity vs these hands then u think, esp QQ.

[sightless]

[ QUOTE ]
why you have to lead big, your trying to get them to fold QQ/JJ b/

[/ QUOTE ]

but why would someone call pf with qq-jj if they arent willing to call a cbet on all undercard flop

yeah vs qq-jj my equity is [censored] but thats not probably all he has

[shoxbb6]

Pf is standard. Unless villain is really aggro, i like a b/3b ai here

[TheRenaissance]

[ QUOTE ]
Pf is standard. IF villain is really aggro, i like a b/3b ai here

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp

[Xanta]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is flop c/r all in a bad idea in this spot?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the villain cbets with QQ or JJ, and we check raise he is priced in to call.. leading flop may get him to fold these hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

95% of villains at 50NL will not fold QQ or JJ here unless you have a much better read than described. Also a check/shove has much more fold equity than a cbet.

[Xanta]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is flop c/r all in a bad idea in this spot?

[/ QUOTE ]

no I definitely check raise flop all in. First thought that came to mind.

Preflop is baaadddd IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree on both accounts. Flop is a semibluff, and the UTG raising range of a reasonable guy who limps too much isn't going to be beaten by TT. Just call preflop.

[sightless]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is flop c/r all in a bad idea in this spot?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the villain cbets with QQ or JJ, and we check raise he is priced in to call.. leading flop may get him to fold these hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

95% of villains at 50NL will not fold QQ or JJ here unless you have a much better read than described. Also a check/shove has much more fold equity than a cbet.

[/ QUOTE ]

cool that what i was thinking in this hand precisly

[J.A.K.]

Newb question in 3....2....1

In the c/r scenario, is there any concern for allowing AK and stubborn pairs like 44-66 to ck behind and hit? If A or K falls are we lead/calling shove? c/c? c/r?

[Check_The_Nuts]

[ QUOTE ]
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

71,280 games 0.031 secs 2,299,354 games/sec

Board: 7h 8d 9c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 68.788% 68.48% 00.30% 48816 216.00 { QQ-JJ }
Hand 1: 31.212% 30.91% 00.30% 22032 216.00 { TT }


This is why you have to lead big, your trying to get them to fold QQ/JJ b/c your equity is not good enough here for a c/r all in, if you go that line they are never folding, if you lead you do have more fold equity vs these hands then u think, esp QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry I need to clarify. I would check/raise all in here with TT because I do the same with AA/KK. So if he shows up with JJ/QQ he's making a huge mistake versus my range.

[ssdex]

c/r has and always will be the worse line on this flop...
I don't think you understand that a c/r line has zero fold equity vs QQ/JJ, if you had AA/KK which you don't, it might be ok as you want them to get their $ in, but no villain is folding either of those hands on this board probably either way, but certainly not once they have 15-20 more in the pot and their gettting like 5-1 on there call when you shove, thats just dumb.