50NL; 200BB AJ flops TPTK rivers trips - did I play this too weak?

[Lego05]

Villian is 33.33//10.71/4.25 postflop agg.

Note: 200 BB's deep.

Ok...IMO the J on the river did not change the strength of my hand relative to my opponent's. If I was winning with a pair of J's then I'm winning with the 3 J's and if I was losing with the pair of J's then I'm losing with the 3 J's. Does anybody disagree about that?

However, it feels as if I played this very weakly....did I play this too weak? Should I have put a raise in there somewhere? Where?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($115.20)
BB ($83.20)
Hero ($95.80)
MP ($12.15)
CO ($13.70)
Button ($48.85)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls $1.75, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($4.50) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $3</font>, Hero calls $3.

Turn: ($10.50) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $5</font>, Hero calls $5.

River: ($20.50) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $10.5</font>, Hero calls $10.50.

Final Pot: $41.50

[Jeffrey Dahmer]

Raise or call is fine. I have learned that rasing here often is against a weak full house. Enough is in the pot, he may even have JA as well.

[Khaos4k]

Does villain normally bet half pot like this? We're 200BB deep and he seems to be going for pot control. With that AF I think he'd be trying to build a pot with a hand like 2 pair or a set. While it is true that the jack doesn't "change" anything as far as your relative hand strengths go, it does change what he is willing to call. He is more likely to call you with trips than a pair of jacks. He is now beating overpairs.

I raise to about $35 here.

[bored]

Weird hand.

It looks like SB has a set and is scared you are going to fold.

I'm not sure what else he is making these small donkbets with. Maybe another J?

I think this is okay playing deep, but I'm confused by SB's line, so I'd just call down.

[iwa]

Why not repop the flop, I'd start there and this hand plays out very differently.

[shadypac]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not repop the flop, I'd start there and this hand plays out very differently.

[/ QUOTE ]

agree

[roll]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
Why not repop the flop, I'd start there and this hand plays out very differently.



agree

[/ QUOTE ]

I third that. I raise the flop to $9. Against this villain I see no reason not to try to get all in with top top, even 200bb deep, anyone think that's spew?

[iwa]

umm yes, I'm not getting all my chips in this deep on the flop with only top pair.

[roll]

Given that villain's vpip is 33 and and his post flop agression is 4.25 do you think hes getting all in on the flop with QJ? If so I get all in, if not I slow down. Maybe those stats aren't as laggy as I think they are.

Either way there's no way I'm calling this flop. Whether or not I spew two buy ins is one thing, but I certainly want to build a big pot as I don't think this villain is folding a jack very often, so at the very least make it 9$ and keep betting blanks when checked to.

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
Why not repop the flop, I'd start there and this hand plays out very differently.



agree

[/ QUOTE ]

I third that. I raise the flop to $9. Against this villain I see no reason not to try to get all in with top top, even 200bb deep, anyone think that's spew?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I think it's spew.

And I don't think I like raising the flop. There are no draws out there and he'll almost definitely fold anything worse than a J, maybe even fold like JT, or QJ or at least slow down with them. And if you just call there is usually a pretty good chance villian will fire turn again.

[Warteen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
Why not repop the flop, I'd start there and this hand plays out very differently.



agree

[/ QUOTE ]

I third that. I raise the flop to $9. Against this villain I see no reason not to try to get all in with top top, even 200bb deep, anyone think that's spew?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I think it's spew.

And I don't think I like raising the flop. There are no draws out there and he'll almost definitely fold anything worse than a J, maybe even fold like JT, or QJ or at least slow down with them. And if you just call there is usually a pretty good chance villian will fire turn again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, call the flop and raise his baby bet on the turn, then. There's a very good chance we're ahead here, but we're going to want to find out. Raise the turn (or the flop) and then call/bet the river.

And OP, the jack on the river does change our status against an overpair, as mentioned, but since you didn't think of that I can only assume that's not what the Villain had. (-;

[Lego05]

Well no he didn't have an overpait...that never actually occured to me and I doubt anyone here would put an overpair in his range on a J high flop after the pre-flop action.


You might be right. Maybe I should have raised the turn and folded if he continued his aggression.

[Warteen]

[ QUOTE ]
Well no he didn't have an overpait...that never actually occured to me and I doubt anyone here would put an overpair in his range on a J high flop after the pre-flop action.


You might be right. Maybe I should have raised the turn and folded if he continued his aggression.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I think about it, I like this line on the turn as played, but I really am not wild about the smoothcall on the flop. You save some money on a turn raise because your opponent underbet, but what if he had potbet? You can't commit yourself with a raise, and a call will invite him to steal it from you on the river.

Basically you raised preflop, flopped TPTK in position, but now the villain is donkbetting into you. (And I think this time I use the term correctly.) You really need to raise to find out where you are, and get value out of weaker jacks.