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View Full Version : $25 NL- I like the river?

mrjetguy
07-12-2007, 01:05 AM
Here's a hand that I would like to get some thoughts on the river. Basically, I'm not saying whether or not I played any of the streets correctly, but I would prefer to hear mainly thoughts about what you do on the river in this situation. I guess what I was thinking was that he probably thought I was somewhat weak after checking the turn and river and that the pot sized bet was fishy. Also, I have a habit of not giving people credit for having a card if there are already two of them on the board (unless the action really says otherwise). Villain is 28/5/.5 over 75 hands.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP ($25)
CO ($25.60)
<font color="#C00000">Button ($46.20)</font>
SB ($26.50)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($26.15)</font>
UTG ($31.35)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.5</font>, Button calls $1.

Flop: ($2.85) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1.8</font>, Button calls $1.80.

Turn: ($6.45) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($6.45) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $5</font>, Hero calls $5.

I spent more time making this decision than I have probably spent in the last 1000 hands. That isn't saying a lot because years of playing limit online have turned me into a quick decision maker. I know it's not a huge hand, but it just seemed like an interesting spot. If the villain was more aggressive I think it's an easy call, but his low aggression factor (over a tiny sample size) made this difficult for me.
shoxbb6
07-12-2007, 01:52 AM
I call this river, doubt he has Ax here because of the check behind on the turn
bored
07-12-2007, 01:57 AM
I'd cbet the flop for more, but I make all my cbets bigger than that.

I think the river is fine. It is very possible you induced a bluff by checking to him twice; it is also possible that he is being tricky with Ax.

If he has an A, make a note of it and move on.
Waingro
07-12-2007, 01:58 AM
What do you think he called the flop with? He doesnīt seem to be the guy that goes for thin value on the river with JJ. I find that people float me all the time with A high. It wouldnīt surprise me one bit if this guy didnīt bet with AJ on the turn. I probably need a bit more history with the guy before I make thin calls.
shoxbb6
07-12-2007, 02:07 AM
[ QUOTE ]
What do you think he called the flop with? He doesnīt seem to be the guy that goes for thin value on the river with JJ. I find that people float me all the time with A high. It wouldnīt surprise me one bit if this guy didnīt bet with AJ on the turn. I probably need a bit more history with the guy before I make thin calls.

[/ QUOTE ]
Kx, a 5, 67, air.
He limp calls, floats flop w/ Ax, checks behind when his gin card comes, and then only bets on the river?
Hero's line looks really, really weak here, villain is bluffing a lot of the time here
Lego05
07-12-2007, 02:10 AM
I c-bet a bit more on flop. River looks like a call.
Yaboosh
07-12-2007, 02:10 AM
If I float the flop here with Ahi, I am not betting the turn either. We are either crushing him or way behind (obviously) and calling a bet on the river or vbetting river is a better way of extracting money if you float and you happen to hit a fairly strong hand (but not enough to stand a reraise).

So, having said this, if I were villain, an A is a solid part of my range, but obviously not the entire range.
eWeet
07-12-2007, 02:17 AM
I would fold the river. The villains aggression factor is too low for you to call this thin.

I can't picture a villain of this type betting about 5/6 of the pot on the river without an ace. It looks like villain floated you with Ax.
mrjetguy
07-12-2007, 02:58 AM
Despite his low AF remember that I have only about 75 hands on him. Also, I felt like the river bet was just too large, it screamed bluff to me. At this level I think I can take the bet for what it appears to be... a bluff. As far as my cbet on the flop I normally do bet slightly more, but I think it's kind of unimportant in looking back at this hand. But to get back to my original point, I just don't see him betting so much on the river if he has an ace. He knows I'm weak and if he has an ace he definitely wants a call. I don't think it is wise to assume his bet size was some sort of trick at this level.
cooker3
07-12-2007, 05:30 AM
Yeah I call it, you played it weakly enough to make it profitable I think.
Genz
07-12-2007, 05:33 AM
first impression without reading the thread:
Preflop is ok. I don't like hands like KJo because it's easy to fall in love with a dominated TP. I actually like a raise with K2s better, because I won't fall in love with split Kings...

Flop: bet pot.
Turn ok.
River: I lead for $3 as a value-bet. As played, I call.
Genz
07-12-2007, 05:37 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If I float the flop here with Ahi, I am not betting the turn either. We are either crushing him or way behind (obviously) and calling a bet on the river or vbetting river is a better way of extracting money if you float and you happen to hit a fairly strong hand (but not enough to stand a reraise).

So, having said this, if I were villain, an A is a solid part of my range, but obviously not the entire range.

[/ QUOTE ]

So when you flat call the flop and bet the turn, you are never betting a TP? sounds exploitable to me. If I notice something like that, I c/r you big time on every turn that you bet.
I really think that you should have a more balanced strategy here. 70% bet, 30% check behind to induce a bluff or so.
Yaboosh
07-12-2007, 11:25 AM
If I have a hand that hates getting checkraised, yes, I probably won't bet the turn. If I love getting it in or can easily let it go, knowing I am beaten, or have no real draw to improve, then I will bet the turn like normal and try to take it down.

You are right that perhaps it should be a proportion of the time instead of an all the time thing.
Capone
07-12-2007, 11:27 AM
Yeah if he had the ace he would have bet the turn imo.

Also, the ace on the river, makes it even more un-likely he has an ace.
mrjetguy
07-12-2007, 12:45 PM
The reason I checked the turn and river was to get to showdown I guess. Once the river came I felt that I was good but didn't want to bet out and have to fold the a reraise. Since he is so passive over a tiny sample size maybe I should have figured I could bet the river without fear of him reraising me unless he has an ace?