Seems Like The Pope Dislikes Protestants More Than Rabbis Do

[David Sklansky]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what I'm reading but it sure seems like the Pope's recent proclamation casts some pretty heavy aspersions toward non Catholic Christians. Greater aspersions than rabbis cast toward non Jewish monotheists.

[Zeno]

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Maybe I'm misunderstanding what I'm reading but it sure seems like the Pope's recent proclamation casts some pretty heavy aspersions toward non Catholic Christians. Greater aspersions than rabbis cast toward non Jewish monotheists.

[/ QUOTE ]


The Pope is a funny guy, a closet comedian in reality. I thought you knew that.

-Zeno, The Antipope

[SNOWBALL]

can you be more specific? or could you at least explain what aspersions rabbis cast on non jewish monotheists? I always thought jews were pretty light on religious bigotry.

[BluffTHIS!]

David,

What the pope is talking about is the difference between protestant denominations and orthodox churches, and why the catholic church doesn't call such protestant denominations "churches", but rather "ecclesial communities". Part of the difference is that although both reject the authority of the bishop of Rome, the orthodox *mostly* don't have huge differences in doctrine, and the orthodox have a valid apostolic succession from bishop to bishop back in time, which the protestants lack. The most important implication of the latter point is that those protestant denominations don't have the Eucharist as do the catholic and orthodox churches, and indeed don't believe in transubtantiation anyway.

For anyone who cares about this, you can find a press release on same here (http://212.77.1.245/news_services/press/vis/dinamiche/a0_en.htm) , and the relevant portion regarding protestant denominations is the 5th question and answer. There is also a separate commentary which can be found here. (http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_commento-responsa_en.html)

Here is a quote from that commentary:

Despite the fact that this teaching has created no little distress in the communities concerned and even amongst some Catholics, it is nevertheless difficult to see how the title of “Church” could possibly be attributed to them, given that they do not accept the theological notion of the Church in the Catholic sense and that they lack elements considered essential to the Catholic Church.

In saying this, however, it must be remembered that these said ecclesial Communities, by virtue of the diverse elements of sanctification and truth really present in them, undoubtedly possess as such an ecclesial character and consequently a salvific significance.


The bottom line is that this is nothing new, and the documents merely restate the church's previous positions. Also it *seems* similar to me to the view that orthodox Judaism has of other branches of Judaism. Perhaps my understanding of that is wrong though.

[rubberloon]

You are slightly misreading the guy, he said all other Christians - protestant, orthodox, monophysite etc. Historically the Catholic church led by the Pope has always preferred to burn heretics, witches and Jews at the stake rather than fighting muslims because historically muslims shoot back. The current Pope was the previous Pope's enforcer and lefthandman, his then outfit was once the Inquisition [HOLY OFFICE] but has since changed its name for public relations reasons.

[Arp220]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what I'm reading but it sure seems like the Pope's recent proclamation casts some pretty heavy aspersions toward non Catholic Christians. Greater aspersions than rabbis cast toward non Jewish monotheists.

[/ QUOTE ]

A perfunctory reading of the history of Christianity in Europe from about 1300 onwards would prompt a 'no [censored]' when perusing the OP. Just one example would be the 'political' strife in northern ireland, which is in reality motivated almost entirely by catholic-protestant hatred.

[Peter666]

"Historically the Catholic church led by the Pope has always preferred to burn heretics, witches and Jews at the stake rather than fighting muslims because historically muslims shoot back."

Your take on history is debauched. The Catholic Church has never burned Jews at the stake, and indeed had to often intercede to protect them during various pogroms.

The burning of witches was mainly a secularly instigated phenomenon, much of it quelled by the Church, and the hysteria of the 16th and 17th century was Protestant inspired.

And as far as Catholics not fighting Muslims, you haven't even got a clue. The Spanish fought them for 700 years, the Hapsburg empire and Italian city states continually fought the Ottoman empire finally ending its expansion into Europe at the Battle of Vienna in 1683. And of course we have that other little period of history known as the Crusades.

[David Sklansky]

So Peter, am I right in assuming that the latest actions of the Pope are more in line with your brand of Cathlocism?

[sonneti]

To be honest we don't like the pope much either...

[Duke]

So you're surprised that the pope dislikes people who basically say: "We basically agree, and just hate you" more than Rabbis dislike people who say: "We agree on basically one thing, but the rest is completely different so we'll go our own way."

I don't see how this is confusing, surprising, or noteworthy.

[Peter666]

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So Peter, am I right in assuming that the latest actions of the Pope are more in line with your brand of Cathlocism?

[/ QUOTE ]

That is correct. So long as a Pope reaffirms or clarifies what has always been taught, he is doing his duty.

Unfortunately, in this regard, the last Pope was a total disaster. This one is a bit better, but still in love with the new theology and pipe dream that was Vatican Council II.

[Duke]

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So long as a Pope reaffirms or clarifies what has always been taught, he is doing his duty.


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If anyone's duty is to reaffirm what has always been taught, their duty is ridiculous. This applies to everything, and not just religion.

[Peter666]

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So long as a Pope reaffirms or clarifies what has always been taught, he is doing his duty.


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If anyone's duty is to reaffirm what has always been taught, their duty is ridiculous. This applies to everything, and not just religion.

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So a modern day mathematician teaching students the Pythagorean theorem is ridiculous?

[Taraz]

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So long as a Pope reaffirms or clarifies what has always been taught, he is doing his duty.


[/ QUOTE ]

If anyone's duty is to reaffirm what has always been taught, their duty is ridiculous. This applies to everything, and not just religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

So a modern day mathematician teaching students the Pythagorean theorem is ridiculous?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but the modern day scientist teaching alchemy is.

[Peter666]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So long as a Pope reaffirms or clarifies what has always been taught, he is doing his duty.


[/ QUOTE ]

If anyone's duty is to reaffirm what has always been taught, their duty is ridiculous. This applies to everything, and not just religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

So a modern day mathematician teaching students the Pythagorean theorem is ridiculous?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but the modern day scientist teaching alchemy is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, they just didn't figure it out yet and God doesn't want to tell them how, unlike faith and morals.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
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So long as a Pope reaffirms or clarifies what has always been taught, he is doing his duty.


[/ QUOTE ]

If anyone's duty is to reaffirm what has always been taught, their duty is ridiculous. This applies to everything, and not just religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

So a modern day mathematician teaching students the Pythagorean theorem is ridiculous?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but the modern day scientist teaching alchemy is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, they just didn't figure it out yet and God doesn't want to tell them how, unlike faith and morals.

[/ QUOTE ]
science figured it out years ago. Its an economic and technological problem now.

chez

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So long as a Pope reaffirms or clarifies what has always been taught, he is doing his duty.


[/ QUOTE ]

If anyone's duty is to reaffirm what has always been taught, their duty is ridiculous. This applies to everything, and not just religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

So a modern day mathematician teaching students the Pythagorean theorem is ridiculous?

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is that they change what they teach based on new knowledge. I hope the entire world laughed when Colbert poked fun at Bush for "believing the same thing on Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday."

Did you?

[Peter666]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So long as a Pope reaffirms or clarifies what has always been taught, he is doing his duty.


[/ QUOTE ]

If anyone's duty is to reaffirm what has always been taught, their duty is ridiculous. This applies to everything, and not just religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

So a modern day mathematician teaching students the Pythagorean theorem is ridiculous?

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is that they change what they teach based on new knowledge. I hope the entire world laughed when Colbert poked fun at Bush for "believing the same thing on Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday."

Did you?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you were talking about things that can be measured and tested empirically, this would be true. But faith and morals can't be. They must be dictated to us by a supreme authority. That's what God did when forming the Church, and continues to do so through his vicars.

Stephen Colbert is a practicing Catholic by the way.

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So long as a Pope reaffirms or clarifies what has always been taught, he is doing his duty.


[/ QUOTE ]

If anyone's duty is to reaffirm what has always been taught, their duty is ridiculous. This applies to everything, and not just religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

So a modern day mathematician teaching students the Pythagorean theorem is ridiculous?

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is that they change what they teach based on new knowledge. I hope the entire world laughed when Colbert poked fun at Bush for "believing the same thing on Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday."

Did you?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you were talking about things that can be measured and tested empirically, this would be true. But faith and morals can't be. They must be dictated to us by a supreme authority. That's what God did when forming the Church, and continues to do so through his vicars.

Stephen Colbert is a practicing Catholic by the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I weigh what people say on the merits of the statements themselves. If NotReady said something that made sense I'd go along with it, despite completely disagreeing with him on basically everything else.

We have disparate views of what morals actually are, so I think we're at an impasse.