How to play pocket pairs!

[Capone]

Hey guys,

I think these threads can help us all and the community as a whole. I have a couple questions in regards to playing pocket pairs, and when I used to post in SSNL we had a dispute on this topic:

1) Should we open for a raise with any pp utg?

2) If we are in late position or the button should we call a raise with a small pp?

3)If we call a raise from mp and it gets 3-bet by a player in late position do we call a 3 bet?

4)We always want to raise first in correct to build a pot?

Thanks guys I think this will give way to some good discussion.

[CobraGoat]

1. yes
2. yes
3. depends (stack sizes, style of villain, etc.)
4. yes

[Nogatsira]

1) yes, open limping just sucks, we got a good hand so we raise

2) this depends on the effective stacks. sometimes fold to a shorty, reraise to someone who has a big vpip

3) no, unless stacks are really deep (depends what pair ur holding offcorse)

4) we open raise to protect our good hand

[Capone]

Thanks guys, could you expand on 3 what type of villan should we be leaning towards calling?

And also, why would we call a re-raise from someone with a high vpip? Because he calls with a wide range?

Any answers or comments are appreciated,.

[CobraGoat]

we are not open raising to protect our good hand of pocket 3s.

we are open raising to build a pot to get stacks in when we hit our set and to set up a cbet against most opponents to take the pot down on flop.

[Capone]

Ya true, we want to build a pot so we have something to steal with a c-bet when we miss, and when we hit our set its more likely we can stack the villian.

[CobraGoat]

you want to play your PPs against players who are likely to go too far with their hands and thus more likely stack off with TP.

a good lag is the worst person to play PPs against because they play lots of small pots using their fold equity to play small ball. a good lag is not looking for big confrontations unless he has a monster himself. a good lag speculates and picks his spots, he will be the toughest to get all the money in with unless he flops a monster.

a bad TAG is the best player to play PPs against. because hes raising a super tight/predicable PF range and keeps his foot on the gas for the rest of the hand thus he is likely to stack off quick with his overpair or TPTK hands.

and then you have everyone in between. but a large majority of players at uNL overplay mediocre hands which increases the value of playing PPs against them.

[Capone]

[ QUOTE ]
you want to play your PPs against players who are likely to go too far with their hands and thus more likely stack off with TP.

a good lag is the worst person to play PPs against because they play lots of small pots using their fold equity to play small ball. a good lag is not looking for big confrontations unless he has a monster himself. a good lag speculates and picks his spots, he will be the toughest to get all the money in with unless he flops a monster.

a bad TAG is the best player to play PPs against. because hes raising a super tight/predicable PF range and keeps his foot on the gas for the rest of the hand thus he is likely to stack off quick with his overpair or TPTK hands.

and then you have everyone in between. but a large majority of players at uNL overplay mediocre hands which increases the value of playing PPs against them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree man uNL players, almost always go to far with tptk and overpairs they stack off with. I mean I guess you look at the players post-flop play, and use that as information to call. His pre-flop calling range is another big factor if its a nit and you can put him on AA or KK then thats another advantage if you hit your set you stack him if you miss you can get away cheaply.

Thanks guys, any other comments?

[Capone]

What about folding 22, or 33 utg is that bad should we always raise?

What about the situation where we call a raise and it gets 3 bet is that almost always a fold?

[Capone]

I mean how bad could it be to fold the smaller pocket pairs in early position you only hit a set 1 out of 8 times so 7 times you lose your raise.

[Capone]

good discussion so far

[moneybreaker]

[ QUOTE ]
I mean how bad could it be to fold the smaller pocket pairs in early position you only hit a set 1 out of 8 times so 7 times you lose your raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you don't, most of the time you will take the pot(your raise + villains call(s)) down with a cbet

[Gelford]

Grunch

Yes
Maybe
Maybe
Yes, but not for that reason

Holla !

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
I mean how bad could it be to fold the smaller pocket pairs in early position you only hit a set 1 out of 8 times so 7 times you lose your raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're at a table of overly aggressive shortstacks, you might fold pocket 2s utg.

The more likely your opponents are to stack off if you hit, the more valuable those little pocket pairs are.

[Antinome]

Like everyone else said, but 77-99 have real value without hitting a set so I'm less concerned about stack sizes.

[Capone]

I think 99+ is where you dont really consider stack sizes imo. 88 down is vulnerable. Even JJ is very hard to play.

I guess it all boils down to stack sizes, and how your opponents play.

In terms of how your opponents play why should you tend to be more inclined to call when a weak-tight player calls rather then a nit? I mean cant we narrow the nits range to 1010+ and AK AQ or so.

[Capone]

I still don't get which players these pp's play better against when we are deciding to call a raise and we are in position. Why weak-tight?

[Antinome]

I think you call different types of players but for different reasons.

The nit we call for set odds if he's a bad nit. (and many are)

The weak-tight player we call to take it away in position.

The loose player we call for value. we should consider dumping lower PPs and raising bigger ones, as we will not have implied odds for a set since he will often have garbage.

There are many loose players out there. Those are the players against whom we should be playing 77-99 for straight-up value. TT+ are 3bets. If we play these hands for set value only versus loose raisers we are making their loose play correct.