Venetian CEO Poker Tournament Main Event Furor

[doublejoker]

A near riot broke out when a few of the players at the Venetian CEO Poker tournament learned that almost $500 was taken out of each persons $2600 main event entry fee. There was a long line to sign up. Players signed a release that if they win they will allow the CEO Poker Tour to use their likeness in advertising etc. The entry card says the typical $2500 + $100 for a total of $2600. It is the same layout as those used at the WSOP. What they didnt tell everone was the following: First, Everyone is charged $100 for the house (4%); Next, an additional 6% is taken out for the CEO Poker Tour itself; Next, an additional 3% is taken out for Venetian staff; Finally an additional 5% is taken out for a charity designated by the CEO Poker Tour. It took a lot of searching, but in the fine print of the Structure sheet one player found the charity 5% information. JC Alvarado, who was doing pretty well when I busted out about 2:30 AM asked, can players deduct the amount they are giving to the charity? No one knew the answer to this question, or what the CEO poker tour charged an additional 6% fee for. The total juice was a staggering 18% on a $2500 buy in event. The Venetian wouldnt even give the players a $10 food coupon at the Dinner break; stating those are only for the $1000 tournaments at noon. Many of the players said they would not have entered if they knew about the 18% juice; others said they would never play in a future CEO Poker Tournament without knowing exactly what they were taking out of the prizepool.

[doublejoker]

Does anyone have the list for the final few tables?

[shaniac]

Come on, did a near-riot really break out or did that just happen in your mind?

[doublejoker]

Two players at one table were screaming at the tournaament guy. Then other players got involved from other tables. No one could believe it. The tournament guy was saying you want to take money from sick children? The whole thing was underhanded to charge people $500 without even a clue they were paying more than $100. "riot" may be overexaggerating.

[thepokerace1]

I was there, and it wasnt a furor. Played in most of the events and had a great time. Great bunch of players. Didnt cash but will next time. Want to win Chairman of Poker.

[doublejoker]

youre happy with 18% juice?? What a Stepford.....

[betgo]

Was in line to play this, but someone was talking about the fine print charges, so I left.

[doublejoker]

You Shouldnt have to read fine print to play in a poker tournament

[RoundTower]

this tournament was one of the best tournaments I have played. But 18% is ridiculous -- I like most other players thought I was getting a great deal on $2500 + $100 vig.

[BigBuffet]

[ QUOTE ]
Come on, did a near-riot really break out or did that just happen in your mind?

[/ QUOTE ]

I heard that the cocktail waitress on perpetual X calmed everyone down /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[MiltonFriedman]

This seems a pretty clear violation of gaming regulations, sharing revenue by a licensee, the Venetian, with a non-licensee, the CEO Poker Tour.

Even the WPT never crossed that line so blatantly.

I would strongly urge a complaint to the Gaming Control Board by anyone who wants his $500 back.

[ceopoker1]

Mr. Friedman,

I am the President of CEO POKER TOUR, and I can assure you that as required by the Gaming Commission, we do not take a percentage of the buy-in, we are provided a flat fee for holding the event at the Venetian, just like a WPT, or other tournament.

The charity was approved by the Gaming Commission to receive a percentage of the buy-in, and a percentage of the buy-in went to Venetian.

I want to make sure that rumors do not start on the Internet that are not true about CEO POKER TOUR or the Venetian.

The CEO POKER TOUR co. abides by all gaming rules and regulations. We pride ourselves on holding successfull events and try to give back to the players as much as possible.

The charity component raised badly needed funds for the children of Nevada and will help a VERY special group that is not always remembered or considered by many.

I hope that this response addresses your concerns and if you have any additional comments that you would like to send on directly to me please feel free to email ceopokertour@aol.com.

Have a great night.

Maria Gomez
President
CEO POKER TOUR

[bogey]

[ QUOTE ]

The charity component raised badly needed funds for the children of Nevada and will help a VERY special group that is not always remembered or considered by many.


[/ QUOTE ]

Is Nevada that bad these days?

[danielkomen]

Ok I always thought at tournaments that the part the house took out was the + part so in $2500 + $100, the $100 is for the house.


Is this how it's done or have I been stupid for not reading the fine print all these years. At the WSOP ME it is $9700 + $300. Is the house getting more than $300 per person? If so what the hell is the $300? I guess sometimes I thought they took an addition like 1-2% for the dealers but that was it. Ie the casinos got the $300 and the dealers 1-2% or something.

But maybe I'm wrong.

I'm glad my brother didn't play the tournament. They have great structures but they need to be more above board in their dealings.

I played one of the $1k events. How much did I donate to the CEO above?

[RoundTower]

Hi Maria,

at the line to sign up for tourneys at the Venetian, there was a board advertising the CEO poker tour. It listed the main event as $2500 + $100 (someone with a ballpoint pen had changed it from $2500 + 120).

I hope you can see why the players have concerns over this false advertising. Please comment on this.

[ceopoker1]

This was an error on our part that we immediately caught the morning of the event, and was changed as soon as we found the mistake. It is exactly as you stated the poster read ($2,500 + $120) but should have been ($2,500 + $100) and we immediately changed the poster to benefit the player. We didnt increase the registration, we brought it down. ALL structure sheets were correct. ALL other print ads were correct, just the poster was not correct.

Let me know if you need any other clarification.

Great board by the way.

Have a good night.

Maria
CEO POKER

[schwah]

[ QUOTE ]
This was an error on our part that we immediately caught the morning of the event, and was changed as soon as we found the mistake. It is exactly as you stated the poster read ($2,500 + $120) but should have been ($2,500 + $100) and we immediately changed the poster to benefit the player. We didnt increase the registration, we brought it down. ALL structure sheets were correct. ALL other print ads were correct, just the poster was not correct.

Let me know if you need any other clarification.

Great board by the way.

Have a good night.

Maria
CEO POKER

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, are you for real?

[PokeReader]

Maria,
You need to advertise the 500. Since all of this money is going to the Venetician, it is all vig to the player and must be advertised as such. I will advise you that this is completely non-competetive, and unless you are able to reduce these cost you will not be able to get players in the future. It is also completely unfair to force players to contribute to a charity when they did not know they were playing in something that was partitially a charity tournament, and didn't know what the charity was. I will tell you that even in charity poker tournaments it is usual that the players have the option to contribute, it is not mandatory. Get a poker person on staff.

[PokeReader]

I was sure those bs accounts that were clearly made to push CEO poker would be on by now. Gee, you set it up, make it obvious they're not real accounts, then you still don't use them when people are critizing you tourney except the one post. Weird.

[ceopoker1]

We will be reducing cost going forward and we will not be including a charity component. The charity component was promoted on the website and detailed in the structure rules and regulations. However, if we decide to go the charity route in the future, CEO POKER will make the donation directly to the charity and not involve the players.

Thank you for your comments.
Maria
CEOPOKER

[WarDekar]

[ QUOTE ]
We will be reducing cost going forward and we will not be including a charity component. The charity component was promoted on the website and detailed in the structure rules and regulations. However, if we decide to go the charity route in the future, CEO POKER will make the donation directly to the charity and not involve the players.

Thank you for your comments.
Maria
CEOPOKER

[/ QUOTE ]

You have still yet to address the absurd 18% juice that this tournament had.

Clearly you do not play poker yourself, or you would realize that just about no-one can overcome an 18% vig on an MTT.

[PokeReader]

It also doesn't really help for the company to make the contribution, as this will be coming from profits generated by the vig on tournaments, so is you have excess profits to afford to do this, you can afford to charge less. This is similar to this issue we have with WTP about casino licensing fees. You need to understand that once word gets around about the absurd $500 vig that players were not clearly advised about at the tournament site, you will have a bad reputation. As a new player in tournaments, you need to confront this going forward by saying that you will carry on your charity work as a completely separate issue. You can do voluntary donations, do a charity tournament with voluntary donations, but having any percentage come out of the company will still hit players. I suggest you establish yourself first, and then you will be more able to support this charity work. What charity was it, by the way?

[Bond18]

lol, guilttripaments.

[PokeReader]

You would be happy if someone advertised 100 juice and charged 500 for a 2500 tourney?

[KurtSF]

[ QUOTE ]
This was an error on our part that we immediately caught the morning of the event, and was changed as soon as we found the mistake. It is exactly as you stated the poster read ($2,500 + $120) but should have been ($2,500 + $100) and we immediately changed the poster to benefit the player. We didnt increase the registration, we brought it down. ALL structure sheets were correct. ALL other print ads were correct, just the poster was not correct.

Let me know if you need any other clarification.

Great board by the way.

Have a good night.

Maria
CEO POKER

[/ QUOTE ]

According to this post, of the $2600 paid by each participant $2500 went to the prize pool.

I would like some further clarification. Is this a lie?

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This was an error on our part that we immediately caught the morning of the event, and was changed as soon as we found the mistake. It is exactly as you stated the poster read ($2,500 + $120) but should have been ($2,500 + $100) and we immediately changed the poster to benefit the player. We didnt increase the registration, we brought it down. ALL structure sheets were correct. ALL other print ads were correct, just the poster was not correct.

Let me know if you need any other clarification.

Great board by the way.

Have a good night.

Maria
CEO POKER

[/ QUOTE ]

According to this post, of the $2600 paid by each participant $2500 went to the prize pool.

I would like some further clarification. Is this a lie?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is not a lie, it is a very literal response to the previous post, which ignores the implied question (why did the poster say 2500 + 100 when in fact it was essentially a 2100 + 600 tourney).

If you read the first response in this thread by ceo poker it is clear that $2500 did not go to the prize pool.

Still, I wouldn't call ceo poker's post an actual lie.

--Zetack

[pig4bill]

Just an "untruth"?

She belongs in politics.

[PokeReader]

They clearly do not really understand how these thing are normally run. They say it was listed clearly on the website, (which obviously many people won't see), but at the tourney site they listed it as 2500 +100, as the 100 was going directly to the Venetian for the tourney. They did not list the 3% being taken out for tourney personnel, or the 6% that was being passed throught the Venetian to the CEO Tour, or the 5% that was going to this charity, whatever it was. Unless you read the fine print, you thought is was a 2500 +100, but I think they were just incompetent, rather than intentionally deceptional.

They also seem to have set up some accounts so they could comment positively on the tourney. There were like five accounts that signed up recently at the same time, and were clearly writen by the same person, and were making a bunch of bad postings all on this forum last night. One of which being the one who said he would be happy paying 18% because he wanted to be the "CEO of Poker".

[Sponger.]

[ QUOTE ]
One of which being the one who said he would be happy paying 18% because he wanted to be the "CEO of Poker".

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd pay 19%!

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
They clearly do not really understand how these thing are normally run. They say it was listed clearly on the website, (which obviously many people won't see), but at the tourney site they listed it as 2500 +100, as the 100 was going directly to the Venetian for the tourney. They did not list the 3% being taken out for tourney personnel, or the 6% that was being passed throught the Venetian to the CEO Tour, or the 5% that was going to this charity, whatever it was. Unless you read the fine print, you thought is was a 2500 +100, but I think they were just incompetent, rather than intentionally deceptional.



[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I'm with you there. And I agree that for the players it seems pretty clear many of them were unaware of the real juice, and that you can't put up a sign that says $2500 + 100 and then take more money out of the $2500.

But what I was responding to was the poster that said that according to the Ceo Pokers POST $2500 went to the prize pool and asking if that was a lie. I was merely pointing out that the relevant post from Ceo Poker did not say that $2500 went into the prize pool, and that Ceo Poker aknowledged in its first post in this thread that in addition to the + $100, money was taken from the $2500.

[PokeReader]

I think the smart thing for them to do, being new players, would be to at least give back the 5% charity vig. This would at least tell players they are making an attempt to make this right. I'm sorry but this is a business, not a charitable organization. Set up a charity for this group, raise money, fine. However, people who do business with you should not be essentially taxed to support your own personal charity. This needs to be an entirely separate financial endeavor for this woman. I'm glad she's supporting charity, I work in not for profit fundraising myself, (though not charitable), but tournament poker players have enough trouble financially without people's pet causes taking a chunk out of the pot as well. 18%, unbelievable!

[BigBuffet]

I wasn't in that event, but if anyone has complaints they should email the Venetian itself.

Venetian's Deepstack events were great and I would think they would want to keep their increasingly positive tournament reputation intact. Therefore they would jump on this fiasco since it impinges on them...

[ericicecream]

[ QUOTE ]
We will be reducing cost going forward and we will not be including a charity component. The charity component was promoted on the website and detailed in the structure rules and regulations. However, if we decide to go the charity route in the future, CEO POKER will make the donation directly to the charity and not involve the players.

Thank you for your comments.
Maria
CEOPOKER

[/ QUOTE ]

You are off my list. I would never play one of your events.

It's a simple concept, "Let the players know in advance how much of their cash they hand over actually goes into the prize pool"

Not only did yopu not do that, but you continue to try to hide this in your responses.

Think "snake"

[Bdidd]

LOL, arguingwithfakeCEOaments

[Spook]

On their website, they do say they take 9 (Nine) percent of the prize pool for Venetian staff. I couldn't find anything about charity, so a link would be great.

Also, a breakdown of why the staff percentage is so very high will also be needed.

[pig4bill]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One of which being the one who said he would be happy paying 18% because he wanted to be the "CEO of Poker".

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd pay 19%!

[/ QUOTE ]

Do they get a 100 million dollar golden parachute like all the other CEO's? I wanna be CEO too.

[Mondogarage]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Friedman,

The charity component raised badly needed funds for the children of Nevada and will help a VERY special group that is not always remembered or considered by many.

Maria Gomez
President
CEO POKER TOUR

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one who immediately read VERY special group to be ceopoker1's kids? /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Given the shocking nature of this vig, I think giving the full name of the actual charity, at this point, is more than appropriate.

[PokeReader]

They do not take out nine percent for the staff. This is getting seriously shady. They take out 3 percent for the staff, then they take out 6 percent for the CEO tour, as the casino fee. However, instead of the casino paying it, it seems the players are. What is super shady is that on the web site they were disguising this as money going to the staff, when it wasn't. I want to know what is going on here now.

[ceopoker1]

It is actually an extremely good charity, the Nevada Childhood Cancer Foundation. You can read more about them at the following link: http://www.nvccf.org/camp.htm

I encourage you to visit the website and see how they use their donation to better the lives of children with cancer,AIDS, hemophilia, sickle cell disease and other immunological disorders.

Maria Gomez
CEO POKER

[PokeReader]

Maria, can you please address the fact that the website stated that 9% was being witheld for staff? Isn't this completely incorrect? Did you know it was incorrect when it was put on the website? Can you please address that neither the website, nor the tournment site had acurate information on the tournment vig and where it was going to? Since players were totally unaware they were "donating" 5% of their buyins to this charity, shouldn't you allow players the choice of donating or not as they choose? Why is the "casino fee" coming out of the players money? This should be a completely separate issue from the prize pool. This is really not a casino fee at all, just another exorbinate piece of vig at the players' expense. Please respond.

[ceopoker1]

It is ABSOLUTELY correct.

Please know that the casino fee is NOT coming out of the players money. I explained this in a letter that I posted last night. We only accept a site fee from the casino. The 9% goes to the Venetian and a 5% donation, ONLY from the main event, which was stated in the website, and in the tournament rules and regulations, went to the Nevada Childrens Cancer Foundation.

However, going forward we are not going to be including a charity component within the tournament structure, and if we do include a charity in our event we will be paying them directly from our site fee.

Please let me know if you have any other concerns or questions.

Maria Gomez
CEO POKER

[Quicksilvre]

[ QUOTE ]
The 9% goes to the Venetian...Please let me know if you have any other concerns or questions.

[/ QUOTE ]

What was the $100 in $2500 + $100 for, then?

[PokeReader]

If you get a 6 percent site fee from the Venetian, and we pay the Venetian an extra 6%, do you see how we are paying you? This is the exact issue with the WPT now. Except at least then the casinos actually cover the fee, and we don't have to pay extra to cover it. Total bs. However, if you listed it on your website as 9% for staff costs, I do not believe you. No one, no one, takes out 9% for staff. I will ask the staff if they got 9% and will they tell me they did? No, because 6% of that went to the Venetian, and if I got to look at your books I bet you that the same 6% is the cost of your "site fee" from the Venetian. Is this so? If so, you are merely passing on your costs, and the players are, in fact, paying for everything.

[doublejoker]

If the fees are not coming out of the players money where are they coming from? The original entry card said $2500 +100 not $2150 + 450!

[PokeReader]

They are claiming some bs that we are paying the Venetian 9% for staff, (there is now way the staff got 9%), and that they only got paid through a site fee from the Venetian. It's just a pass through. We pay the Venetian, the Venetian pays them. I am sure it is the same amount of money.

[Synergistic Explosions]

This is so deceptive it borders on criminal.

[doublejoker]

I searched their website; this is all I could find....


The Venetian Resort-Hotel-Casino to Host CEO Poker Tournament July 2-10, 2007


CEO Poker, an Executive Games company, has announced The Venetian Resort-Hotel-Casino in Las Vegas, will host a 2007 CEO Poker Tournament July 2 – 10, 2007. Executives from all over the world will battle over the green felt for an exclusive Tiffany Championship bracelet, cash prizes, trophies and bragging rights. Buy-ins will range from $500-$5,000.

"We felt The Venetian Poker Room was the right fit for the CEO Poker Tour," says William Peraza, CEO, CEOPoker. "We wanted to align ourselves with a prestigious brand that understood the needs of the executive poker player. CEO Poker is more than just about playing poker, we believe in a total player experience as soon as you walk through the casino doors. The Venetian Poker Room has our same values and mission – to give the player the ultimate experience.”

“The Venetian Poker Room is delighted to welcome the CEO Poker Tour for what promises to be an exciting event this July,” stated Kathy Raymond, director of poker room operations for The Venetian. “Players are invited to battle for top honors and amazing prizes in our exquisitely decorate poker room featuring leather and cherry wood custom cabinetry, state-of-the-art technology and a smoke-free environment.”

When not playing poker, CEO tournament participants and their guests are invited to enjoy the unique array of amenities and attractions available at The Venetian Resort-Hotel-Casino including 20 fine dining restaurants, featuring an unparalleled seven James Beard Award-winning chefs, spectacular shopping at The Grand Canal Shoppes featuring a quarter-mile indoor gondola ride with singing gondoliers, Canyon Ranch SpaClub®, the Guggenheim Hermitage Museum and Madame Tussauds Wax Museum.

The CEO Poker Tournament at The Venetian will be open to players wanting to compete and network, while playing Texas Holdem. Please visit www.ceopokertour.com (http://www.ceopokertour.com), tournaments section, for information on player criteria.

To register for the tournaments please log in to www.ceopokertour.com (http://www.ceopokertour.com) and click Tournaments for more info and an online registration link. Seating is limited.

A complete listing of the events can be found by visiting www.ceopokertour.com. (http://www.ceopokertour.com.)

Statements in this press release, which are not historical facts, are "forward looking" statements that are made pursuant to the Safe Harbor Provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Forward-looking statements involve a number of risks, uncertainties or other factors beyond the Company's control, which may cause material differences in actual results, performance or other expectations. These factors include, but are not limited to general economic conditions, competition, new ventures, government regulation, legalization of gaming, interest rates, future terrorist acts, insurance, and other factors detailed in the reports filed by Las Vegas Sands Corp. with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

About The Venetian Resort~Hotel~Casino
The Venetian Resort-Hotel-Casino, a repeated recipient of the AAA’s Four Diamond Award, is one of the world’s most luxurious resort and convention destinations. Re-creating Venice’s legendary landmarks, the resort offers unmatched service and quality for leisure and corporate guests. Located in the heart of the Las Vegas Strip, The Venetian features The Grand Canal Shoppes, an indoor streetscape complete with gondolas and singing gondoliers, the Canyon Ranch SpaClub, world-class gaming, exquisite restaurants, the Guggenheim-Hermitage Museum, and a wide variety of entertainment venues on its premises, as well as extensive convention and corporate services. For additional information, visit The Venetian website at www.venetian.com. (http://www.venetian.com.)

About Executive Games
Executive Games produces executive related events, where players network and compete for titles, cash, and bragging rights. William Peraza, JR., CEO of Executives Games, and Maria Gomez, President of Executive Games, developed the concept of executive entertainment event productions to give players the ability to release stress, have fun, and network. Executive Games is the ultimate in player competition.

[Cornell Fiji]

Mr. Gomez,

Please clearly answer this question. Of the $2500 that players thought that they were contributing to the prizepool how much money actually went into the prizepool?

If the answer to the above question is less than $2500 do you see why the players could be confused that you advertised the tournament as $2500+100?

If you see how players could be confused do you believe that your practice could legitimately be considered by some to be 'unethical'?

Thank you for your honest responses,
Steve

[doublejoker]

18% of the $2500 + 100 was taken out as follows;

4% for the Venetian itself for running the event ($100)
6% for the CEO Poker Tour for sponsoring the event ($150)
3% for Venetian Staff ($75)
5% for CEO Poker Tour Charity ($125)

The total taken out was $450 per player; Can CEO Poker Tour people dispute these exact numbers?

[Synergistic Explosions]

Would anyone actually register if they promoted it as a 2150+450 tournament?

That's probably why the deception was used. Putting the +100 in was genius to deflect players from investigating further to discover the truth.

[doublejoker]

Still waiting for a response from CEO staff to dispute the $450 number; as they claim the fees were not taken from the prizepool. The players in this tourney should each be given a few hundred in refunds by the CEO Tour.

[PokeReader]

I have PM Ms. Gomez about this issue and heard nothing. I believe all players who registered under the 2500+100 are entitled to receive at the minimum the $125 for the charity and the $150 for the "tour sponsor" which is a player fee. Even though the $75 for the Venetian staff wasn't listed, this at least was reasonable. I am sure this could be successfully litigated. I could not find these breakdowns anywhere on their website, and they were not clearly available at the tournament site. Amateur hour, "this was changed in the players favor?" How's that? Please answer my questions, Ms. Gomez.

[Jooka]

[ QUOTE ]
Would anyone actually register if they promoted it as a 2150+450 tournament?

That's probably why the deception was used. Putting the +100 in was genius to deflect players from investigating further to discover the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]


should be a crime. reading this thread is painful.

[Dynasty]

Maria Gomez,

Your responses (and lack of responses) in this thread have been doing nothing but damage to the reputation of those you represent.

This website has the ability to disseminate information to the poker community very quickly. I strongly suggest you directly address the concerns exprressed by people here.

It appears you ran this tournament in violation of some very basic standards which poker players expect. It seems many who actually played in the tournament feel deceived by the "$2,500 + $100" listing. If you don't deal with these issues, you can expect the poker community to make considerable negative assumptions about why these things happened. And, that can only create long-term and possibly irreparable damange to the reputation of your business.

[Bdidd]

people love to bitch about stuff.

[apefish]

[ QUOTE ]
people love to bitch about stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Especially things that seem legitimate to bitch about.

[Spook]

[ QUOTE ]
The charity component was promoted on the website and detailed in the structure rules and regulations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maria, did someone change the structure rules file? I downloaded it, and there are zero references to any money being taken out for charity.

If you can't show otherwise, I will have to assume that you told a lie.

[PokeReader]

Unbelievable, these people are completely beyond belief. A response is not only appreciated to the questions asked since your last response, if you care about your reputation it is required.

[doublejoker]

Where can you download the strucrue rules? What exactly is listed as fees and charges?

[doublejoker]

No one has reponded from CEO since the actual numbers have been reported here

[Spook]

[ QUOTE ]
Where can you download the strucrue rules? What exactly is listed as fees and charges?

[/ QUOTE ]

Since I have posted that, the structure has been completely taken down. I have the doc file on my other computer.

edit: my other computer hadn't changed the cache.. so I can't be one hundred percent on when they removed it.

http://www.ceopokertour.com/CEOpokerVenetianStructure.doc

[doublejoker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Where can you download the strucrue rules? What exactly is listed as fees and charges?

[/ QUOTE ]

Since I have posted that, the structure has been completely taken down. I have the doc file on my other computer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow CEO took down the posted structure from the internet? This is getting absurd.

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Where can you download the strucrue rules? What exactly is listed as fees and charges?

[/ QUOTE ]

Since I have posted that, the structure has been completely taken down. I have the doc file on my other computer.

edit: my other computer hadn't changed the cache.. so I can't be one hundred percent on when they removed it.

http://www.ceopokertour.com/CEOpokerVenetianStructure.doc

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this file different from the one that you have saved on your computer? On the end of the first page it discusses the money withheld. If this is different from the file that was previously on your website...

well the cover up makes them look pretty guilty.

If the file is different make sure that you do not save or otherwise modify the file so that the 'last modified' date shows that you didn't delete the information yourself.

[DoGGz]

[ QUOTE ]
This was an error on our part that we immediately caught the morning of the event, and was changed as soon as we found the mistake. It is exactly as you stated the poster read ($2,500 + $120) but should have been ($2,500 + $100) and we immediately changed the poster to benefit the player. We didnt increase the registration, we brought it down. ALL structure sheets were correct. ALL other print ads were correct, just the poster was not correct.

Let me know if you need any other clarification.

Great board by the way.

Have a good night.

Maria
CEO POKER

[/ QUOTE ]

I just want to highlight this post again. Maria is deceiving us in the thread to defend the CEO tour.

[Spook]

HAHAHA. That is so fake and laughable.

Wow, thieves and liars.

They took the document down from their website, and edited it such that if you did find it, it would show want they wanted you to see.

[Jooka]

[ QUOTE ]
HAHAHA. That is so fake and laughable.

Wow, thieves and liars.

They took the document down from their website, and edited it such that if you did find it, it would show want they wanted you to see.

[/ QUOTE ]


unbelievable.

[PokeReader]

Ms. Gomez thinks that if they get the same amount of money, and it all comes from us, it doesn't matter as long as they name it something different. We really care about what we are paying and where it is going. This cannot be swept away. Changed the poster to benefit the player. Bah.

[Spook]

The new doc wasn't even proof read. They say
Nevada Children’s Cancer Foundation and use a ’ and not a '.
(That is an accent)

Then I googled... they got the name of their charity wrong. There is no Nevada Children's Cancer Foundation.
There is a Nevada Childhood Cancer Foundation.

good job proofreader.

[doublejoker]

Are you certain they dummied up a new structure sheet? This is a serious accusation.

[Spook]

Yes, in the copy i first downloaded they had the
**9% of prize pool withheld for Venetian Casino staff.
on each of the first two pages.

In the new version it is only on the first page, followed by 5% to blah blah blah.

[Bonified]

[censored] these people. Don't ever play in a "CEO Poker" tournament again, and tell everyone you can about it.

If anyone thinks this is legally actionable, have at it, but my guess is that they could weasel out of it. Just [censored] them, that's all

[PokeReader]

I do think it is legally actionable. There were multiple places where the vig on the tournment coming out of the prize pool was marked as only $100. The only place this was correctly marked was in the fine print.

[BeaucoupFish]

[ QUOTE ]
In the new version it is only on the first page, followed by 5% to blah blah blah.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look in the document properties (File | Properties | Statistics) for clues. The link doc has:

Created: 6-28-07 8:15:00PM
Modified: 7-11-07 12:09:57PM
Accessed: <this is when you opened or saved the file>

Last saved by: Sue Yurcic
Revision: 5
Total editing time: 4 minutes

Compare to your saved version. Saved date can change by other means, but Modified date in properties is usually quite reliable.

[BigBuffet]

[ QUOTE ]
I actually prefer their normal $1070 buy in at midday to the CEO thing

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said in my other post in this thread, I didn't play the CEO. But I'm wondering if any of you who did have emailed the Venetian?

I would think they would have checked out the structure CEO event to make sure no shenanigans like this happened since the Venetian has a positive tourny rep...

[fleece_me]

[ QUOTE ]
18% of the $2500 + 100 was taken out as follows;

4% for the Venetian itself for running the event ($100)
6% for the CEO Poker Tour for sponsoring the event ($150)
3% for Venetian Staff ($75)
5% for CEO Poker Tour Charity ($125)

[/ QUOTE ]

I am confused where this was disclosed to the players. If it wasn't disclosed when they signed up, the players were defrauded.

[Spook]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In the new version it is only on the first page, followed by 5% to blah blah blah.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look in the document properties (File | Properties | Statistics) for clues. The link doc has:

Created: 6-28-07 8:15:00PM
Modified: 7-11-07 12:09:57PM
Accessed: <this is when you opened or saved the file>

Last saved by: Sue Yurcic
Revision: 5
Total editing time: 4 minutes

Compare to your saved version. Saved date can change by other means, but Modified date in properties is usually quite reliable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't figure this out, as I don't have word. I could email it to you if you wish to PM me.

[doublejoker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
18% of the $2500 + 100 was taken out as follows;

4% for the Venetian itself for running the event ($100)
6% for the CEO Poker Tour for sponsoring the event ($150)
3% for Venetian Staff ($75)
5% for CEO Poker Tour Charity ($125)

[/ QUOTE ]

I am confused where this was disclosed to the players. If it wasn't disclosed when they signed up, the players were defrauded.

[/ QUOTE ]

it wasn't disclosed until we figured out the prizepool at around 2 am

[BeaucoupFish]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't figure this out, as I don't have word. I could email it to you if you wish to PM me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I sent you a PM. But when you save a file, it alters some of the properties. Might be able to tell some differences though.

[Cornell Fiji]

Spook emailed me the document.

There is absolutely no mention of money being taken out for "the Nevada Children’s Cancer Foundation" (this is only included on the new file that was added to their website).

Unfortunately (as far as I know) when you download a file it changes the properties so there is no way for me to prove that Spook did not delete the line about the Nevada Children’s Cancer Foundation... Of course, you would imagine that if the sheet had been written a month in advance they would not have gotten the name of the charity wrong!

I would love to hear Ms. Gomez either directly accuse Spook of doctoring the sheet or admit that she put up a new structure sheet today in response to this thread

Ms. Gomez, you got some explaining to do!

If I played in this tournament I would absolutely raise hell with the Venetian and the Gaming Commission. I am usually not a rat but the level of deceit shown by Ms. Gomez in this cover up is despicable.

I also think that if she avoids this thread for another day we should use our resources in the media to break this story.

Steve

[jimmytrick]

Given the deception, I think it would be reasonable to doubt that they plan to give any money to charity.

This is a straight up scam. If the Venetian is not willing to deal with it, the Gaming Commission should.

Maria, moving forward will not be playing your tourney but will be sure everyone in line to register knows your scam.

Thanks.

[jimmytrick]

This is like being mugged and the mugger being indignant that we object, because he is only "doing it for the children".

[Squareview]

this is so bad. IF IT WAS A CHARITY TOURNIE WITH SOME MONIES GOING TO CHARITY WHY IS IT IN SMALL PRINT? WHAT IS THIS SOME SECRET NEW DEAL NOT TO TELL THE PLAYERS THAT THEY ARE PLAYING FOR SOME CHARITY? IT SHOULDA BEEN CALLED THE CHARITY EVENT AND PEOPLE WOULD STILL PLAY????? WTF. maria did you finalize this tournies monies, if so your in for a horrible start to your carrer. so basically you dont want players knowing that they are paying all kinds of rake to the casino and secretly playing for a charity. hahah you lose

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]
This is like being mugged and the mugger being indignant that we object, because he is only "doing it for the children".

[/ QUOTE ]

Is CEO Poker Tour going to take BarryG's moniker of being "The Robin Hood of Poker"?

...This is going to be a terrible time for the scandal to get reported on poker news sites as this is the one time of the year that people are flocking to their sites.

[doublejoker]

No one from CEO has responded since we disclosed the exact money that was taken out.

[T-God]

lol @ trying to hustle hustlas.

That only works on the internet where we're all dumb, not in real life.

[octaveshift]

This is gonna be great. I can't wait to see how it's resolved.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TxRedMan]

[ QUOTE ]
No one from CEO has responded since we disclosed the exact money that was taken out.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there's not a response from them in the next day I for one am going to post this in my blog and will tell everyone at my tables this week about the CEO poker ripoff, and the way they lied and cheated players into a 18% vig.

You can count on me for informing a couple hundred people in the poker community.

I dont think CEO poker realizes the power 2p2 has. I mean, we CREATED Brandi. We can put them under in about a week and a half.

[T-God]

Tx, 2+2 doesn't need you for your blog. You're the one we count on to beat up everyone.

Go beat up someone.

[doublejoker]

How can these 2+2ers tell that the document on the internet was doctored? This is very intriguing. Now there is no mention at all on their site of structures vig or any percentages. Everything is gone.

[BeaucoupFish]

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately (as far as I know) when you download a file it changes the properties so there is no way for me to prove that Spook did not delete the line about the Nevada Children’s Cancer Foundation...

[/ QUOTE ]

I looked at the two files also. Each file has the name Sue Yurcic as the Last Saved by username. While not impossible, it is extremely unlikely anyone but this Sue Yurcic last modified both documents, since this is automatically updated when you save an Office document.

Looks very shady to me.

[Josem]

[ QUOTE ]
Come on, did a near-riot really break out or did that just happen in your mind?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I think a near-riot is about to really break out on 2p2.

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately (as far as I know) when you download a file it changes the properties so there is no way for me to prove that Spook did not delete the line about the Nevada Children’s Cancer Foundation...

[/ QUOTE ]

I looked at the two files also. Each file has the name Sue Yurcic as the Last Saved by username. While not impossible, it is extremely unlikely anyone but this Sue Yurcic last modified both documents, since this is automatically updated when you save an Office document.

Looks very shady to me.

[/ QUOTE ]


Nice catch, you're totally right. I missed that.

This proves that the structure sheet they had online earlier did not include any mention of money going to charity (as Ms. Gomez claimed in this thread) and then when they realized this they put up a new structure sheet to cover up their scam in an attempt to play it off as if they were being forthcoming about the money they were stealing from the prize pool.

I can't wait to here Ms. Gomez's reply.

[tuq]

It should be easy to contact the Nevada Childhood Cancer Foundation (http://www.nvccf.org/) to confirm that they are the recipient of the aforementioned monies. It's hard to believe that someone would make up a fake children's charity to siphon money for themselves, but I've heard of worse.

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]
It should be easy to contact the Nevada Childhood Cancer Foundation (http://www.nvccf.org/) to confirm that they are the recipient of the aforementioned monies. It's hard to believe that someone would make up a fake children's charity to siphon money for themselves, but I've heard of worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats not really the point.

The point is that they took money out of the prize pool without telling the players and then in this thread Ms. Gomez claimed that she had notified the players on their website.

When it was shown that the structure sheet on their website had no mention of money being withheld they created a new document with the text that Ms. Gomez claimed was there all along and they tried to pass it off as if that was the document that had been up there all along.

In their haste to get a new document up on their site they got the name of the charity wrong, something that most likely would not have happened if they had created the document months ago as they had claimed. Of course, this circumstantial evidence is not necessary because one poster had saved a copy of the document that was previously on the website and it had no mention of money being withheld for charity. It can be verified that the poster did not alter the structure sheet that he took off the website by looking at the document properties.

If indeed the CEO poker tour had not intended to give this money to charity then the police should get involved.

If instead they just took money out of the prize pool without notifying the players then the gaming commission should get involved, players should have this money refunded (and they could donate it to a charity if they so decide) and those who perpetuated this cover up should not get another job in the poker industry.

[KotOD]

Does the waybackmachine store hosted files, or only pages?

[jt082005]

sad to see they had to do that, and kill any name they tried to get going for them

[citanul]

at the $1k buyin CEO tour tournaments, they were advertizing it as:

$1000+$75 entrance fee

then on the last line of the back of the structure sheet, there is a line that said 9% will be withheld for the staff. that's um, a lot of % too.

[RoundTower]

I have the lavender coloured structure sheet that was available during the event.

On the front, at the top, it says "$2500 + $100" in big letters.

On the front, at the bottom, it says
"3. Management reserves the right to change or cancel tournament."
"4. Five percent of total prize pool will be donated to Nevada Children's Society."
and
"7. $2500 Buy-In Start with $15,000 in chip's 60 Min levels no Rebuys".

On the back it has the TDA poker rules in really small print (size 8 or something). Underneath those in even smaller print
"The Venetian Poker Room reserves the right to modify or cancel tournament without any prior notice. Sign ups start two hours before the start of each tournament. Nine percent of prize pool will be withheld for tournament staff. Five percent of prize pool will be donated to the Nevada Children's Society. All payouts will be in the form of casino chips."

These are the only mentions of the prize pool on the structure sheet.

[doublejoker]

the 200 people in line had no idea of any of this. All they were seeing was a huge billboard stating $2500 + $100 and an entry card stating the same. An additional 3% may have been assumed. No one had any idea the real juice was $450 per player.

[doublejoker]

[ QUOTE ]
at the $1k buyin CEO tour tournaments, they were advertizing it as:

$1000+$75 entrance fee

then on the last line of the back of the structure sheet, there is a line that said 9% will be withheld for the staff. that's um, a lot of % too.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 9% for staff I later found out was 3% for Venetian staff and 6% for CEO Poker Tour (for what I don't know)

[MicroBob]

this is unbelieveably bad.
wow.

[pig4bill]

[ QUOTE ]
"4. Five percent of total prize pool will be donated to Nevada Children's Society."

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing comes up on google for Nevada Children's Society. No "cancer" in that name either.

[THEOSU]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"4. Five percent of total prize pool will be donated to Nevada Children's Society."

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing comes up on google for Nevada Children's Society. No "cancer" in that name either.

[/ QUOTE ]


absolutely correct. not one single page.

found an interesting link though:

CEO Poker Tour Partners with Poker Players Alliance (http://www.pokerplayersalliance.org/pressreleases/newsandarticles_article.php?DID=136)

by Maria Gomez, CEO Poker Tour

[ QUOTE ]
The CEO Poker Tour (www.ceopokertour.com), where executives battle for the title of Chairman of Poker, is partnering with the Poker Players Alliance (PPA) (www.pokerplayersalliance.org), which supports poker player rights, by strategically including PPA in the year long poker tour.

The partnership will include a strong presence at every tournament location to include: placement of PPA items and information in CEO Poker gift bags, poker room banner, CEO Poker website insertion with link to PPA website, logo on direct mail pieces, and more.

[/ QUOTE ]


has anybody contacted the PPA about this?

[doublejoker]

The advertisement I brought with me promised me a free gift bag upon check in. My "gift bag" consisted of one hat.

[Synergistic Explosions]

[ QUOTE ]
The advertisement I brought with me promised me a free gift bag upon check in. My "gift bag" consisted of one hat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sweet! You lucky bastard!

[schwah]

i downloaded the original structure sheet before it was changed, absolutely no mention of the 5% withheld for charity or that 6 or the 9% held for "Venetian Casino staff" actually went to CEO

you can download the document here. (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=K87GUYOT)

[RunDownHouse]

What sort of penalties could CEO be looking at if the Nevada Gaming Commission finds them at fault or fraudulent in some way?

[KurtSF]

Has anyone made a report to the gaming commission?

This is just sick.

[Manpriest]

Linked in my small community poker forum. Spreading the word. This is ridiculous.

[Suigin406]

wow, this is horrible and i hope they get torched with a big penalty for doing this...i, like i'm sure others, are done with this...man, bilking people using a charity as a front, jeez...

[tuq]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It should be easy to contact the Nevada Childhood Cancer Foundation (http://www.nvccf.org/) to confirm that they are the recipient of the aforementioned monies. It's hard to believe that someone would make up a fake children's charity to siphon money for themselves, but I've heard of worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats not really the point.

The point is that they took money out of the prize pool without telling the players and then in this thread Ms. Gomez claimed that she had notified the players on their website.

When it was shown that the structure sheet on their website had no mention of money being withheld they created a new document with the text that Ms. Gomez claimed was there all along and they tried to pass it off as if that was the document that had been up there all along.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, no I get the point and it's been echoed by many. I was just curious about the legitimacy of the donation, and how pathetic it would be if it was fake.

W/r/t the donation, even if it is legitimate it's pathetic, not just in its handling but in the fact that you know the CEO Poker Tour is looking to pass off the donation as their work and to take full tax and altruistic credit, when in fact it was a swindle.

[Cornell Fiji]

http://aofg.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/humanfund.jpg

[CutCreator]

It would be great to see some corporate rapists get some sort of penalty for raping poker players. That would be a first.

[suzzer99]

Subject: charity inquiry
To: info@nvccf.org

Hello, I would like to confirm that a Poker tournament, which claims
to be giving 5% of it's entry fees to your charity, is actually doing
what it says.

It's the CEO Poker Tournament at the Venetian. They seem to have taken
down (from their site) the Word document where they claim 5% of their
tournament fees are going to your charity. But we have copies of it
scattered around. This amount should be somewhere in the $7500-$10000
range.

I would very much appreciate it if you could at least confirm for me
some involvement with CEO Poker on this tournament. There have been
some accusations of shady marketing of this tournament and quite
franky CEO Poker doesn't come off as very credible. So I thought I
would try to confirm with you that they at least did give some money
to charity.

Thanks for your time,

[doublejoker]

Does it explain that there is an additional 6% fee for the CEO Poker tour itself; in addition to the 4% for the Venetian Casino and 3% for the Venetian Staff?

[Spook]

Doublejoker, where did you get this information?

Now credible Maria is claiming at all 9% went to the V staff. So they must be tipped pretty well - right?

[The Owl]

LOL @ the President of the big-time CEO Poker Tour's email address being at AOL. Who is this person, my mom?

[doublejoker]

At the tournament itself. The floorpeople insisted that of the 9% fee the CEO Poker Tour charges 6% for sponsoring the event and that the Venetian takes its standard 3%.

[AngusThermopyle]

[ QUOTE ]

As I said in my other post in this thread, I didn't play the CEO. But I'm wondering if any of you who did have emailed the Venetian?


[/ QUOTE ]

Or called? Or walked in and talked to some High Mucky-Muck?

[doublejoker]

Why would the Venetian staff take an additional 9% out of this particular tournament and only 3% out of their daily Deep Stack tournaments be reasonable. Also, who gets the write off for the $30,000 donation to the charity?

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

As I said in my other post in this thread, I didn't play the CEO. But I'm wondering if any of you who did have emailed the Venetian?


[/ QUOTE ]

Or called? Or walked in and talked to some High Mucky-Muck?

[/ QUOTE ]

I e-mailed Kathy Raymond yesterday and linked this thread.

[UtzChips]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Friedman,

I am the President of CEO POKER TOUR, and I can assure you that as required by the Gaming Commission, we do not take a percentage of the buy-in, we are provided a flat fee for holding the event at the Venetian, just like a WPT, or other tournament.

The charity was approved by the Gaming Commission to receive a percentage of the buy-in, and a percentage of the buy-in went to Venetian.

I want to make sure that rumors do not start on the Internet that are not true about CEO POKER TOUR or the Venetian.

The CEO POKER TOUR co. abides by all gaming rules and regulations. We pride ourselves on holding successfull events and try to give back to the players as much as possible.

The charity component raised badly needed funds for the children of Nevada and will help a VERY special group that is not always remembered or considered by many.

I hope that this response addresses your concerns and if you have any additional comments that you would like to send on directly to me please feel free to email ceopokertour@aol.com.

Have a great night.

Maria Gomez
President
CEO POKER TOUR

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like Tony Soprano's relatives have the best when it comes to attorneys.
EXCLAM on hiding it all in fine print!
And keeping it quiet!! You must have put the fear of HELL into your employees to be able to keep that one quiet.

I guess we either not frequent the place, or bring along a magnifying glass. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Another example of the big fish eating the little ones.
Well done boyz! You've come a long way from Waste Mgt down in FL.

[Spook]

[ QUOTE ]
At the tournament itself. The floorpeople insisted that of the 9% fee the CEO Poker Tour charges 6% for sponsoring the event and that the Venetian takes its standard 3%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome. Previous posts were vague, and I just wanted to make sure this wasn't a rumor. If you can remember any floor staff names, that is even better. No need to post them.

[UtzChips]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would the Venetian staff take an additional 9% out of this particular tournament and only 3% out of their daily Deep Stack tournaments be reasonable. Also, who gets the write off for the $30,000 donation to the charity?

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think the chances are that the Venetian and the CEO Poker Tour didn't match the 30k that regular joe's ended up donating to some charity they never heard of?

[OPportunist]

[ QUOTE ]
Subject: charity inquiry
To: info@nvccf.org

Hello, I would like to confirm that a Poker tournament, which claims
to be giving 5% of it's entry fees to your charity, is actually doing
what it says.

It's the CEO Poker Tournament at the Venetian. They seem to have taken
down (from their site) the Word document where they claim 5% of their
tournament fees are going to your charity. But we have copies of it
scattered around. This amount should be somewhere in the $7500-$10000
range.

I would very much appreciate it if you could at least confirm for me
some involvement with CEO Poker on this tournament. There have been
some accusations of shady marketing of this tournament and quite
franky CEO Poker doesn't come off as very credible. So I thought I
would try to confirm with you that they at least did give some money
to charity.

Thanks for your time,

[/ QUOTE ]

You have given them a half-baked out here. If they were just scamming the Human Fund cash, expect the charity you emailed to receive a donation in the exact amount you suggest in the next couple of days.

[PokeReader]

I received a reply my PM of Ms. Gomez finally. Essentially it was entirely unsatisfactory, and did not respond to any of the questions posed since her last post. She did state that she had posted about the "missing" structured sheets online, that were changed, but I must have missed that somehow. I suggest if she is indeed so concerned about "rumours" that she post publicly, and continue to do so until she has answered all questions to the satistisfaction of this community.

[KurtSF]

[ QUOTE ]


You have given them a half-baked out here. If they were just scamming the Human Fund cash, expect the charity you emailed to receive a donation in the exact amount you suggest in the next couple of days.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, Maria stated in this thread that the gaming commission "approved" this percentage of the buy in to go to the charity, so even if the charity hasn't heard about it beforehand, the gaming commission should have.

[PokeReader]

My response to Ms. Gomez' PM

Ms. Gomez,
I am confused in that you stated you had posted on the forum to respond to the changes that different indivuduals found when downloading the structure document at different times, however I did not did any post about this from you? Perhaps you intended to post publicly but forgot to? I will I urge to to respond to the questions about the direct passing through of costs of the "site fee" and whether this is indeed the same 6% the players paid. If so, your stating that you were not paid out of the prize pool is a technicality at best. You do not address that most players did not receive a structure sheet at the event, and thus had no chance to learn even about the 5% going to charity, let alone about the additional 9% that you claim went to Venetian staff, when we both know they received 3% and the additional 6% was refunded back to you as a site fee. If players were not advised of this when they signed up, and were in fact advised it was a $2500+100 event, meaning $2500 to the prize pool, and $100 to the event costs, you are legally bound to hold to this contract. I firmly suggest for the future good name of you organization that you post publically on these matters, and continue to post until all this community has been satisfied.

Sincerely,
PokeReader

[markysals11]

lol that is so bad

[ibluffoldladies]

You guys are all crazy to suggest that people involved in poker would try to scam you out of money.

[Quicksilvre]

[ QUOTE ]
Does the waybackmachine store hosted files, or only pages?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes. Usually wayback doesn't show pages less than a few months old, and it doesn't always show all files.

[Johnny Hughes]

2500 plus 100 always means 2500 for the prize pool, 100 for the fee, juice, tea, or vig or whatever you call it. At least that is what I always thought it meant.

[PokeReader]

It is what it is supposed to mean, therefore the players assumed it meant that as it is standard industry norm, therefore it was a binding contract. They really have multiple problem it people want to push it. One, individual players could pursue action to receive the vig inexcess of $100 back, and in addition the players that cashed could pursue action to receive to deficit to their amount cashed. In addition, in this structure the company is getting the tax benefit of the tax deduction, but the players' money is being used to fund it. I would bet money that Ms. Gomez' child, or someone' else's high up at this organization was ill, thus the decision that it is fair to force poker player's that may not have much money to contribute 5% of their buy-in to this cause. Believe me, I support research for kids with cancer, I was one, but it must be an actual contribution, not this. I doubt that everyone that works there is forced to contribute 5% of their salary to this cause, but it is fair to force us to contribute. However, no doubt in the future this will become like the site fee, we won't we won't be paying it at all it their minds, we will just get charged the same 5% but it will go to the casino, the casino will pass it back to them, and they will give it to the chairity. I don't think they really get that all their money comes from players.

In politics with have this same thing, the pass-through. If you have a donor who has maxed out to your campaign, and you still want him to contribute, he sends a contribution to the national party or another organization, and then they cut you a check, "passing" the money through. It's essentially money laundering, and doing it to avoid campaign contributions is illegal. I believe that if the 6% that the players paid to the Venetian, illegedly as "staff costs", was the exact amount paid to the CEO Poker Tour for a site fee you could make a case that this was done just to avoid the rule about a non-licensee getting juice from an event. I will wait to see how they reply to this, but if I do not get a reply about whether the 6% was just passed through, with documentation, I believe this could be passed on to the Gaming Board.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The advertisement I brought with me promised me a free gift bag upon check in. My "gift bag" consisted of one $450 hat.

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp.

to the person who doesn't understand why there is a fee for the CEO poker tour, uh, that's their cut, that's pretty understandable that CEO poker tour should get *some* money out of the tournament, and not just the venetian.

not that this whole thing isn't shady as hell anyway.

[KurtSF]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The advertisement I brought with me promised me a free gift bag upon check in. My "gift bag" consisted of one $450 hat.

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp.

to the person who doesn't understand why there is a fee for the CEO poker tour, uh, that's their cut, that's pretty understandable that CEO poker tour should get *some* money out of the tournament, and not just the venetian.

not that this whole thing isn't shady as hell anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but it should be called a $2250 + $200 + $50 or whatever. Indicating that $2250 goes to the prize pool, $200 to the casino/organizers, and $50 to the staff. That's pretty standard.

[PokeReader]

$450 was take out of the prize pool

[ QUOTE ]
18% of the $2500 + 100 was taken out as follows;

4% for the Venetian itself for running the event ($100)
6% for the CEO Poker Tour for sponsoring the event ($150)
3% for Venetian Staff ($75)
5% for CEO Poker Tour Charity ($125)

The total taken out was $450 per player; Can CEO Poker Tour people dispute these exact numbers?

[/ QUOTE ]

[eso]

[ QUOTE ]
$450 was take out of the prize pool

[ QUOTE ]
18% of the $2500 + 100 was taken out as follows;

4% for the Venetian itself for running the event ($100)
6% for the CEO Poker Tour for sponsoring the event ($150)
3% for Venetian Staff ($75)
5% for CEO Poker Tour Charity ($125)

The total taken out was $450 per player; Can CEO Poker Tour people dispute these exact numbers?

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

This would mean it is a 2150+450 tourney, and so it is actually a 20.9% fee. Extortionate.

[suzzer99]

Hello Matt,



I appreciate you inquiry. I just wanted to let you know that we have been
working with the Venetian and the CEO Poker tournament people since early
this year. We were very grateful that they chose us as the local charity
for the tournament. I have been in touch with Maria Gomez and we are
meeting with the Venetian to recive our check. Everything is very
legitimate, and if you were one of the players that participated we thank
you for your part in the donation as well. We have been in operation since
1993 and have worked with over 3,000 families with children that have been
striken with not Cancer, but other life threatening immunological diseases.
Please go to our website listed below and see all the things we are doing in
this community. The wonderful thing is that the dollars that are raised
through this tournament as well as other events stay right here in this
community and go to the families and the children that need our help. We
work side by side with the medical community in provided services to the
families financially, emotionally, educational, and physcologically.



Once again, thank you for your inquiry, but please rest assured that every
thing is on the up and up and we appreciate so much the efforts of the CEO
Tournament to help us do what we do for the families of this community.
Feel free to call me at any time with any questions that you have.



Jeff



Jeffrey R Gordon

President/CEO

Nevada Childhood Cancer Foundation

6070 South Eastern Ave. #200

Las Vegas, NV 89119

(702) 735-8434 PH.

(702) 735-8421 FX.

(702) 521-6723 CL.

www.nvccf.org (http://www.nvccf.org)

"Embrace the Life of a Child"

[OPportunist]

[ QUOTE ]
In addition, in this structure the company is getting the tax benefit of the tax deduction, but the players' money is being used to fund it.

I would bet money that Ms. Gomez' child, or someone' else's high up at this organization was ill, thus the decision that it is fair to force poker player's that may not have much money to contribute 5% of their buy-in to this cause.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are going to bet on their reasoning, I think the tax benefit is a safer wager than the sick child scenario (and just a amateurish business approach is the most likely). Please post lines on all three.

[Spook]

Well at least the money is going to charity.

[Rottersod]

[ QUOTE ]
Well at least the money is going to charity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but it came directly from the announced prize pool of $2500. If the CEO Poker Tour had really been honest about it they would have announced it as a $2050 + $450 + 100 event ands the players would have been able to know right away that they were playing for $2050 x the number of players. The way they did it was smarmy and not at all above board.

[PokeReader]

With a female in charge of the company, and putting the success of the company clearly put at risk by increasing costs by a whooping 5%, this screams personal involvement to me. Even after this debacle she is only discussing moving future donations to a pass through structure which will not necessarily change the overall cost to players. What she should be doing is pursue this as a personal charity pursuit, and only combine it with her business as a one hundred percent charity event. There should be no percentage of the profits of a new business going to a charity.

[Josem]

[ QUOTE ]
With a female in charge of the company

[/ QUOTE ]

Without addressing the other obvious flaws in your post (it can be perfectly profitable and reasonable for businesses to contribute to charity, as a huge number do) this opening is just blatantly offensive and ignorant.

[Slim Pickens]

[ QUOTE ]
With a female in charge of the company...

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope your next craigslist date kicks you in the nuts with pointy shoes.

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]
With a female in charge of the company, and putting the success of the company clearly put at risk by increasing costs by a whooping 5%, this screams personal involvement to me. Even after this debacle she is only discussing moving future donations to a pass through structure which will not necessarily change the overall cost to players. What she should be doing is pursue this as a personal charity pursuit, and only combine it with her business as a one hundred percent charity event. There should be no percentage of the profits of a new business going to a charity.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also find this comment pretty disgusting on all levels.

[PokeReader]

Contributing 5% of your costs off the top cannot possibly be profitable. I apologize if this seemed sexist, but I was just responding to the person that thought is was done for tax reasons. For me she seemed so dedicated to it, that it seemed personal. I was not saying it in a derrogatory way, just that women are more likely to combine personal and private lives this way.

P.S I am female.

[5_year_old_bully]

[ QUOTE ]
P.S I am female.

[/ QUOTE ]

=

http://ccinsider.comedycentral.com/photos/uncategorized/claytonbigsby.jpg

=

Video Clip, i guess it shouldn't be watched at work (http://thatvideosite.com/video/1290)

[PokeReader]

Could we possibly refocus on the issues at hand? They said they posted here to address to document changes but didn't, and haven't addressed any of the other questions. Since the tournament was posted as 2500+100, that should have been binding. The fact that it might have been partially posted in places the players didn't have access to is irrevant.

[Rottersod]

[ QUOTE ]
Could we possibly refocus on the issues at hand? They said they posted here to address to document changes but didn't, and haven't addressed any of the other questions. Since the tournament was posted as 2500+100, that should have been binding. The fact that it might have been partially posted in places the players didn't have access to is irrevant.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the issue has been beaten into the ground. We all are saying essentially the same thing.

[suzzer99]

That women can't run companies. Right?

[KotOD]

[ QUOTE ]
That women can't run companies. Right?

[/ QUOTE ]

HP (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=HPQ&a=06&b=19&c=1999&d=01&e=9&f=2005&g=m)

Mattel (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=MAT&a=05&b=1&c=1997&d=01&e=8&f=2000&g=m)

[Rottersod]

[ QUOTE ]
That women can't run companies. Right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh no you didn't!

[hanster]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That women can't run companies. Right?

[/ QUOTE ]

HP (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=HPQ&a=06&b=19&c=1999&d=01&e=9&f=2005&g=m)

Mattel (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=MAT&a=05&b=1&c=1997&d=01&e=8&f=2000&g=m)

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait are you proving the point? Both CEOs were fired last year.

[DannyOcean_]

So.... I say we turn this over to BBV, OOT, every poker blog in the universe, all of our friends, and let the whole world know about this shtttttttttttt that essentially adds up to false advertising/theft.

Time to go to work.

[suzzer99]

[ QUOTE ]
That women can't run companies. Right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not serious here, just making fun of the ridiculous turn this thread took.

[PokeReader]

Let's just wait until we get a response from the CEO Poker people or the Venetian.

[doublejoker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Friedman,

I am the President of CEO POKER TOUR, and I can assure you that as required by the Gaming Commission, we do not take a percentage of the buy-in, we are provided a flat fee for holding the event at the Venetian, just like a WPT, or other tournament.

The charity was approved by the Gaming Commission to receive a percentage of the buy-in, and a percentage of the buy-in went to Venetian.

I want to make sure that rumors do not start on the Internet that are not true about CEO POKER TOUR or the Venetian.

The CEO POKER TOUR co. abides by all gaming rules and regulations. We pride ourselves on holding successfull events and try to give back to the players as much as possible.

The charity component raised badly needed funds for the children of Nevada and will help a VERY special group that is not always remembered or considered by many.

I hope that this response addresses your concerns and if you have any additional comments that you would like to send on directly to me please feel free to email ceopokertour@aol.com.

Have a great night.

Maria Gomez
President
CEO POKER TOUR

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like Tony Soprano's relatives have the best when it comes to attorneys.
EXCLAM on hiding it all in fine print!
And keeping it quiet!! You must have put the fear of HELL into your employees to be able to keep that one quiet.

I guess we either not frequent the place, or bring along a magnifying glass. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Another example of the big fish eating the little ones.
Well done boyz! You've come a long way from Waste Mgt down in FL.

[/ QUOTE ]

The part about the flat fee is the 6% taken by the CEO Poker Tour. There it is in black and white.

[doublejoker]

Its been 2 days without any response except the removal of the documentation from their website.

[doublejoker]

That woman ran Mattel into the ground.

[doublejoker]

[ QUOTE ]
I received a reply my PM of Ms. Gomez finally. Essentially it was entirely unsatisfactory, and did not respond to any of the questions posed since her last post. She did state that she had posted about the "missing" structured sheets online, that were changed, but I must have missed that somehow. I suggest if she is indeed so concerned about "rumours" that she post publicly, and continue to do so until she has answered all questions to the satistisfaction of this community.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you post this reply?

[apefish]

Trying to piece together what happened here.
Tell me if any of this sounds familiar...

Involves poker, children, cancer, Vig, money not going where it is supposed to, and 2+2ers feeling ripped off.

Okay, I was just checking.

Does anyone know if Maria Gomez is a hot baby momma?

[pig4bill]

Their lawyer probably told them to STFU and stay off message boards.

[KotOD]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That women can't run companies. Right?

[/ QUOTE ]

HP (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=HPQ&a=06&b=19&c=1999&d=01&e=9&f=2005&g=m)

Mattel (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=MAT&a=05&b=1&c=1997&d=01&e=8&f=2000&g=m)

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait are you proving the point? Both CEOs were fired last year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Last year? Pleased to be looking at the numbers and learning about the companies.

[THEOSU]

[ QUOTE ]
Trying to piece together what happened here.
Tell me if any of this sounds familiar...

Involves poker, children, cancer, Vig, money not going where it is supposed to, and 2+2ers feeling ripped off.

Okay, I was just checking.

Does anyone know if Maria Gomez is a hot baby momma?

[/ QUOTE ]


man, mrs vig was (and presumably still is) f hot.

[KurtSF]

Sounds like CEO Poker owes everyone in the tournament $325 and a receipt for a $125 tax-deductible charitable donation. Would that, plus an apology and a promise to not be lying, cheating scumbags in the future make this right?

Unless pushed, I don't think we will hear anything from CEO Poker about this again. Can this be taken to court? Has anyone notified the gaming commission? Any response from the V yet? Or the charity?

[5_year_old_bully]

Has tx started beating people up over this yet?

[Bellagibro]

lol scammaments

[doublejoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like CEO Poker owes everyone in the tournament $325 and a receipt for a $125 tax-deductible charitable donation. Would that, plus an apology and a promise to not be lying, cheating scumbags in the future make this right?

Unless pushed, I don't think we will hear anything from CEO Poker about this again. Can this be taken to court? Has anyone notified the gaming commission? Any response from the V yet? Or the charity?

[/ QUOTE ]

Since the exact numbers have been posted there hasn'tbeen a single response from CEO Poker. They cannot dispute what has been discussed here. Heres another option; CEO Poker could run a freeroll tourney for the 235 people that were involved with a prizepool of about 50k and give 10k more to the charity. There is about $60,000 unaccounted for. Those who could not make the tourney would get compensated by the CEO Poker tour in some way.

[doublejoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Their lawyer probably told them to STFU and stay off message boards.

[/ QUOTE ]

That probably is the reason they stopped disputing what is clearly the case.

[PokeReader]

I received another PM, (her second), in response to my second PM to her. It really doesn't add anything, although she continues to say that she is posting on these issues...? I thought I would give her some time to post her own response, but as she hasn't, and as they are not really different that what she has already posted,

From: ceopoker1

PokerReader:

As I stated in the forum just a few minutes ago, and will continue to state, there is no cover up, that is why I have taken the initiative to join this board and respond to concerns and questions.

The structure sheets did state that a percentage of the event was going to charity, from day one, as required.
Additionally, the structure had been up for weeks online.

There are even postings on the blog that state this fact, and even show the copy that was printed on the structure sheet, so it was in the structure sheet from day one.

We learn from every event and as I explained in other posts in the future it is not likely that we will do a charity event where it involves the players, we will pay a charity from our own funds.

Regarding, so called cover up of document replacements, I posted a response to those baseless claims on the forum, because claims seem to become truths when seen on a blog.

From day one I have responded to board requests for more information which I have provided. No documents have been replaced, we updated the tournament standings web page and replaced the structure link with a standings link because the event finished, not because we had anything to hide.

The structures from day one had the prize pool breakdown, including the charity percentage, which is posted on the forum by someone that received the structure sheet at the event.

Whenever we complete a tournament we update the area so no other player downloads the application for a similar event. This is common practice even within casino websites.

I know that many of you are searching for hidden agendas but there are none. If there was a hidden agenda, I wouldnt be responding personally to posts about this issue.

A percentage of the buy in did go to a charity, as stated on the structure sheet, and it went to a good cause. The donation can be confirmed by contacting the charity. We would encourage you to connect with the charity and become involved in their programs.

Please feel free to email me any time and I will respond to your concerns.


Regards,

Maria Gomez
CEO POKER




From: ceopoker1

As I have stated at no time did we change the structure sheet online. The sheet was done as a Word Document online and in the future will be done as a PDF which can not be altered by the public once downloaded. The problem with a Word document is that anyone can download this document and place any information that they wish and state that it was their originally. We did not change the document. We did replace the LINK from a structure link to a STANDINGS link after the event. That is all and standard for tournament updates.

Additionally, the structure sheets were available to every player at the event prior to registration during the entire week, for all tournament levels.

They were placed on the counters where you sign up, placed on tables where structure sheets for all events are placed for pick up for approximately 11 days.

All details, from percentages, to charity information where on these structure sheets. This is common practice for any tournament.

Lastly, we were not paid a percentage of the prize pool, we are paid a site fee from Venetian and nothing else. I continue to post the same information because these are the facts regarding this event.

If you would like any additional information please do not hesitate to contact me.


As you can see they don't really answer the questions asked, but as she prefers to answer PM's to post publicly for some reason, I suggest eveyone write to her if they had a problem, and then you will receive an answer that doesn't really address any questions you asked.

[doublejoker]

[ QUOTE ]
I received another PM, (her second), in response to my second PM to her. It really doesn't add anything, although she continues to say that she is posting on these issues...? I thought I would give her some time to post her own response, but as she hasn't, and as they are not really different that what she has already posted,

From: ceopoker1

PokerReader:

As I stated in the forum just a few minutes ago, and will continue to state, there is no cover up, that is why I have taken the initiative to join this board and respond to concerns and questions.

The structure sheets did state that a percentage of the event was going to charity, from day one, as required.
Additionally, the structure had been up for weeks online.

There are even postings on the blog that state this fact, and even show the copy that was printed on the structure sheet, so it was in the structure sheet from day one.

We learn from every event and as I explained in other posts in the future it is not likely that we will do a charity event where it involves the players, we will pay a charity from our own funds.

Regarding, so called cover up of document replacements, I posted a response to those baseless claims on the forum, because claims seem to become truths when seen on a blog.

From day one I have responded to board requests for more information which I have provided. No documents have been replaced, we updated the tournament standings web page and replaced the structure link with a standings link because the event finished, not because we had anything to hide.

The structures from day one had the prize pool breakdown, including the charity percentage, which is posted on the forum by someone that received the structure sheet at the event.

Whenever we complete a tournament we update the area so no other player downloads the application for a similar event. This is common practice even within casino websites.

I know that many of you are searching for hidden agendas but there are none. If there was a hidden agenda, I wouldnt be responding personally to posts about this issue.

A percentage of the buy in did go to a charity, as stated on the structure sheet, and it went to a good cause. The donation can be confirmed by contacting the charity. We would encourage you to connect with the charity and become involved in their programs.

Please feel free to email me any time and I will respond to your concerns.


Regards,

Maria Gomez
CEO POKER




From: ceopoker1

As I have stated at no time did we change the structure sheet online. The sheet was done as a Word Document online and in the future will be done as a PDF which can not be altered by the public once downloaded. The problem with a Word document is that anyone can download this document and place any information that they wish and state that it was their originally. We did not change the document. We did replace the LINK from a structure link to a STANDINGS link after the event. That is all and standard for tournament updates.

Additionally, the structure sheets were available to every player at the event prior to registration during the entire week, for all tournament levels.

They were placed on the counters where you sign up, placed on tables where structure sheets for all events are placed for pick up for approximately 11 days.

All details, from percentages, to charity information where on these structure sheets. This is common practice for any tournament.

Lastly, we were not paid a percentage of the prize pool, we are paid a site fee from Venetian and nothing else. I continue to post the same information because these are the facts regarding this event.

If you would like any additional information please do not hesitate to contact me.


As you can see they don't really answer the questions asked, but as she prefers to answer PM's to post publicly for some reason, I suggest eveyone write to her if they had a problem, and then you will receive an answer that doesn't really address any questions you asked.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did this additional 6% "site fee"come from if not the prize pool?

[PokeReader]

Obviously it is from the prize pool. It is just a legal cover. They pass the Venetian an extra 6% per player, and then the Venetian pays them the same 6% back. It's just a pass-though. That's why she won't answer the question about it being the same amount of money.

[doublejoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously it is from the prize pool. It is just a legal cover. They pass the Venetian an extra 6% per player, and then the Venetian pays them the same 6% back. It's just a pass-though. That's why she won't answer the question about it being the same amount of money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesnt that violate the gaming rules discussed earlier about outside agents receiving juice from tourneys? 18% is rather excessive.

[PokeReader]

Thats my point, if it is in fact the same exact amount of money passing hands back and forth, just to protect them from gaming rules, well, I can't say what gaming will do if that's the case, but I'd get in alot of trouble with the FEC for doing the same thing.

[Jeff Gordon]

Hello, my name is Jeffrey Gordon and I am the President /CEO of the Nevada Childhood Cancer Foundation. We are a 501 (c) 3 non-profit and have been in existence since 1993 here in Las Vegas. I invite everyone to go to our website and learn more about us. It is
www.nvccf.org (http://www.nvccf.org)

We are a legitimate charity that works side by side with the medical community to provide social, emotional, financial, educational, and psychological support services and programs to families of ALL children who are diagnosed with a life threatening or critical illness such as cancer, HIV/AIDS, sickle cell, hemophilia, renal disorders, and other immunological diseases. We provide comfort and support while empowering and educating families. The only thing more tragic than a child being diagnosed with cancer, or any life threatening illness; is to go through it without hope. We are here to give that hope and courage to these children that by no fault of their own are in a very dark place.

I think it is important to know that the CEO POKER TOUR Company has gone out of their way to support our programs by giving us an opportunity to be part of their tournament in order to be able to continue funding some of our most important community programs.

We are in contact right now with the Venetian Hotel and they are processing the wonderful donation. The dollars that were raised for the charity will go a long way in helping fund many of our programs in Project A.R.K. You can read more about them on our website.

As I am sure you are all aware, it is hard for private charities to raise money when we are not affiliated with any national or governmental agencies. It is through generous efforts of companies like the CEO POKER Tour, and the Venetian, and of course all of you who were involved that allows us to do what we do for our kids.

I see that there are some negative impressions and false information floating around. I hope this will help dispel some of that and hopefully this will not effect our relationship with CEO POKER, or the Venetian as they have both done a wonderful service for the children of this community.

Most Sincerely,

Jeffrey R Gordon
President/CEO
Nevada Childhood Cancer Foundation
“Embrace the Life of a Child”

[suzzer99]

To summaize -
charity: legit
vig: excessive and shadily presented
what can we do about it?: probably nothing except boycott and spread the word

[Dynasty]

Jeff,

Nobody has a problem with your charity.

The problem here is with the CEO Poker Tour and the perception that they at best deceived the players in the tournament and at worst committed fraud.

[PokeReader]

Clearly player cannot, and are not getting the tax deduction for this. I think we should see what the Venetian says, and then decide on further steps such as contacting the Gaming Commission, contacting the other casinos they partner with, and there is a partner company to CEO Poker Tours to whom a complaint should be voiced. Then we will have to consider whether it is worth getting legal representation in this matter.

[Nicok7]

Would the WPA be able to group concern? Sounds like the kind of thing they would be useful for.

[BeaucoupFish]

[ QUOTE ]
As I have stated at no time did we change the structure sheet online. The sheet was done as a Word Document online and in the future will be done as a PDF which can not be altered by the public once downloaded. The problem with a Word document is that anyone can download this document and place any information that they wish and state that it was their originally.

[/ QUOTE ]

FTR, I am an IT professional, not a poker professional. I have no vested interest in this matter, I was just curious about any mis-doings.

Please note "Last saved by" and Created fields in the Properties box (filenames are the only properties that are changed).

This was sent to me by Spook (Happy Birthday, btw!):

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/beaucoupfish/Venetian-Original.jpg



This is from the link in Spook's subsequent post:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/beaucoupfish/Venetian-Replaced.jpg



This is the Word doc after I modified and saved the file myself:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/beaucoupfish/Venetian-Faked.jpg

The "Last saved by" field is automatically updated by Word when you save it, according to your desktop configuration.

IMO, I have no doubt that the docs were switched. When this happened would be between Spook downloading the first Word doc, and subsequently checking it later. Also note that the Created dates of each are different, these look to be two documents being modified in parallel.

[doublejoker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As I have stated at no time did we change the structure sheet online. The sheet was done as a Word Document online and in the future will be done as a PDF which can not be altered by the public once downloaded. The problem with a Word document is that anyone can download this document and place any information that they wish and state that it was their originally.

[/ QUOTE ]

FTR, I am an IT professional, not a poker professional. I have no vested interest in this matter, I was just curious about any mis-doings.

Please note "Last saved by" and Created fields in the Properties box (filenames are the only properties that are changed).

This was sent to me by Spook (Happy Birthday, btw!):

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/beaucoupfish/Venetian-Original.jpg



This is from the link in Spook's subsequent post:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/beaucoupfish/Venetian-Replaced.jpg



This is the Word doc after I modified and saved the file myself:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/beaucoupfish/Venetian-Faked.jpg

The "Last saved by" field is automatically updated by Word when you save it, according to your desktop configuration.

IMO, I have no doubt that the docs were switched. When this happened would be between Spook downloading the first Word doc, and subsequently checking it later. Also note that the Created dates of each are different, these look to be two documents being modified in parallel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like a coverup of fraudluent excessive charges.

[doublejoker]

And they are taking credit for a 30k plus donation to your charity that was infact made by individual players

[PokeReader]

What this is a cover up of is that one could not find out about the charity aspect of the event on the website as was claimed. Also, the vig was not fully disclosed on the website, and only partially described on the structure sheets at the tournament. The fact that there was partial disclosure of the outrageous vig charges does not in any way mitigate that the problem was that when players signed up the sign stated that this was a 2500+100 event. Players tend to read structure sheets for structure information, not to find out if there are an addition 350 dollars in hidden charges. Most players get and read structure sheets until after signing up, so this does not change their false advertising case in the slightest. If they do not come forward to make this right with players I will contact the Attorney General for Nevada, as this is a clear case of deceptive advertising practices. The clear fact that they changed the structure sheets after the fact shows a knowledge of their liability. I suggest they change their tact, apologize for what I believe was originally a honest series of mistakes, and discuss what will be done to rectify the situation. Otherwise, action will have to be taken that can only be detrimental to their ongoing business concerns.

[doublejoker]

[ QUOTE ]
What this is a cover up of is that one could not find out about the charity aspect of the event on the website as was claimed. Also, the vig was not fully disclosed on the website, and only partially described on the structure sheets at the tournament. The fact that there was partial disclosure of the outrageous vig charges does not in any way mitigate that the problem was that when players signed up the sign stated that this was a 2500+100 event. Players tend to read structure sheets for structure information, not to find out if there are an addition 350 dollars in hidden charges. Most players get and read structure sheets until after signing up, so this does not change their false advertising case in the slightest. If they do not come forward to make this right with players I will contact the Attorney General for Nevada, as this is a clear case of deceptive advertising practices. The clear fact that they changed the structure sheets after the fact shows a knowledge of their liability. I suggest they change their tact, apologize for what I believe was originally a honest series of mistakes, and discuss what will be done to rectify the situation. Otherwise, action will have to be taken that can only be detrimental to their ongoing business concerns.

[/ QUOTE ]

Will you seriously file charges with the Attorney General?

[PokeReader]

You don't file charges, you write a letter, and ask them to investigate them for violating such and such a statute. Or it can be just a normal kind of complaint letter.

[doublejoker]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't file charges, you write a letter, and ask them to investigate them for violating such and such a statute. Or it can be just a normal kind of complaint letter.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt know that. Anyone can do this?

[PokeReader]

Yes, anyone, anytime. We should also complain to Better Buisness Bureau. Not as much legal action, but will still cause issues for them.

[stephenNUTS]

Maria/William,

When you first approached me about playing in the Atlantic City CEO Series at the Taj,with the hype of "my recent USPC FT television appearance at the TAJ" and living /playing poker in the NorthEast,I didn't think for one moment that this was anything more than another company taking a crack at the current competitive poker circuit,vs. the WPT and WSOP respectivally.When I pre-registered prior to your Main Event for $5000 you told me SPECIFICALLY that you had 150+ players/PRO's/CEO's pre-registered,(and just like I did the same with a credit card over the phone)and I was all gung ho for the event when I arrived.As a former CEO of a Wall Street hedgefund/broker dealer,I am quite familiar with the charity circuit as well,and this event was NEVER implied to me to be such an event!

The day the Main Event started(obviously knowing it was a two day event),I hopefully expected close to 200+ players at least to be quite honest.

Well when I took my seat and found out there was 38 ,,,,,,,,,,,,YES only 38 players signed up(and the ONLY PRO I saw was the fine gentleman and my friend Bill Edler at my table,who was also just as perplexed),I went looking for you and William,to NO AVAIL, and was absolutely LIVID,about being lied to,cheated,scammed,whatever.

Since hearing and obviously reading this fine print NOW ,I know for a fact that there are many players/PRO's that are NOT going to take this Venetian CEO Event fiasco in vein.I guess I was STUPID enough to even play/register in the event,without ever reading the standard fine print that any legitimate tournament constructs on their payout/structure sheets.

I "hope" you covered all your base's,as when it come's to CHARITABLE events.............the LAW is pretty damn serious if there was any fraud/deceptive intent here!

Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeez ......................something just wasn't right in my gut from my FIRST COMPLAINT going back to the TAJ a few months back.I am hearing some SCARY [censored] about this,and to be quite honest,am TRULY questioning the validity of this whole CEO series "fine print" crap,and will be the first to stand up for any players that were mis-led or "fine printed" into am obvious 20% Juice SCAM.

I donate a decent sum of monies to various charities of MY CHOICE each year,and in my opinion this whole CEO thing has had a "devious" underpinning" from the start.It should be one's own personal choice of a charity,and if not ,the entrants should be COMPLETLY informed of such BEFORE signing up for a Main Event that list's as $2500 + 100 entry fee.From what I am seeing/hearing the various prize pools were a JOKE,percentage wise!

I am disgusted!

~Stephen Feraca

[PokeReader]

We should also consider the possiblility that they are a paid fundraiser for this charity, thus making more money off of this.

[UtzChips]

One thing is for sure. There won't be a Pro that won't know by the end of the month. CEO tour bites the dust.

You think when they found they only had 38 entries, they decided, well, this isn't gonna take off, let's make sumpin for a charity and let it die.

[7stud]

Dear Jeff Gordon,

I'm thinking about robbing a bank tomorrow and donating 9% of the proceeds to your charity. If I get caught, will you be a character witness for me at my trial? Will you tell the press what a good partner I have been?

Your willingness to do business with an apparent criminal enterprise will and should have a negative impact on your ability to raise funds for your charity. Therefore, you should resign immediately in an attempt to rectify your charity's good name.

By the way, what is your salary as head of that charity?

[BigBuffet]

[ QUOTE ]
If they do not come forward to make this right with players I will contact the Attorney General for Nevada, as this is a clear case of deceptive advertising practices.

[/ QUOTE ]

The few times I've had trouble with regulated businesses, I've written a letter to the Governor's office. The shjt rolls downhill fast...

For added measure you could try a buckshot approach: a letter to the NV Governor, NV Atty Gen, the NV Gaming Commission and Mr. Sheldon G. Adelson. List all four on each letter as a CC so they all know that you are serious.

[stephenNUTS]

[ QUOTE ]
One thing is for sure. There won't be a Pro that won't know by the end of the month. CEO tour bites the dust.

You think when they found they only had 38 entries, they decided, well, this isn't gonna take off, let's make sumpin for a charity and let it die.

[/ QUOTE ]

BINGO

[Buried]

[ QUOTE ]
I received another PM, (her second), in response to my second PM to her. It really doesn't add anything, although she continues to say that she is posting on these issues...?

From: ceopoker1

PokerReader:

As I stated in the forum just a few minutes ago, and will continue to state,


[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone want to introduce her to "see all posts from this user"?

[BeaucoupFish]

Guess this was too subtle in my last screenshot:

** 5% of the main to the Hollaballa Playboy Suite Foundation

[yingyang0]

[ QUOTE ]
What this is a cover up of is that one could not find out about the charity aspect of the event on the website as was claimed. Also, the vig was not fully disclosed on the website, and only partially described on the structure sheets at the tournament. The fact that there was partial disclosure of the outrageous vig charges does not in any way mitigate that the problem was that when players signed up the sign stated that this was a 2500+100 event...Otherwise, action will have to be taken that can only be detrimental to their ongoing business concerns.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps you should be consulting an attorney instead of posting accusations that if turn out not to be true could be considered libel or tortious interference with prospective business relations. I'm not in anyway involved in this dispute, just an interested observer.

I'd always see what the NGC says before posting here.

[TxRedMan]

Best post ever Stephen. In more ways than one.

NH,


-Tex

[PokeReader]

I am an attorney, and I would expect that most people would believe that filing complaints with the AG, Gaming Commission, and BBB, would have negative impact on their future business. She is more than welcome to file suit, although internet communications are a more protected class, and without wanting to get in a full discussion of this subject - really all she could do is ask 2+2 to remove the information. Then if they do not, she/the business, would have some addition rights. Suing an individual for what they post on an internet group is extremely challenging. In this case, it is not close to be actionable if it were not on the internet. The facts are not under dispute for anyone at the event, in fact we have learned they were even worst and more misleading. We are perfectly entitled to file complaints, to start a boycott and discuss these matters fully with the poker community. The fact that this will have a negative effect on their business, I think is self-evident, and self-inflicted.

[TxRedMan]

No one has a problem with your charity, or with the CEO poker tour helping to further your cause. However, please understand that most of us do not play the game as strictly a hobby, and do not have enough wealth that would allow us to essentially play in a tournament that was unbeatable. And by unbeatable, I mean that if you played in a tournament that withheld this much of the prizepool (x) amount of times, it's likely that the best tournament players around would go broke b/c of the money withheld.


Furthermore, this is clearly false advertising and extremely unethical. If you want to run a charitable event, by all means do so, but advertise it as such that there is no doubt, i.e., ante-up for Africa in the WSOP.

In sum, we respect your charity and your cause, but we do not respect the CEO Poker Tour, and I'm betting that the rest of the forum is like me in thinking that CEO Poker Tour asked you to post here to both attempt to calm us down and dodge the issues we want addressed immediately.

[doublejoker]

[ QUOTE ]
I am an attorney, and I would expect that most people would believe that filing complaints with the AG, Gaming Commission, and BBB, would have negative impact on their future business. She is more than welcome to file suit, although internet communications are a more protected class, and without wanting to get in a full discussion of this subject - really all she could do is ask 2+2 to remove the information. Then if they do not, she/the business, would have some addition rights. Suing an individual for what they post on an internet group is extremely challenging. In this case, it is not close to be actionable if it were not on the internet. The facts are not under dispute for anyone at the event, in fact we have learned they were even worst and more misleading. We are perfectly entitled to file complaints, to start a boycott and discuss these matters fully with the poker community. The fact that this will have a negative effect on their business, I think is self-evident, and self-inflicted.

[/ QUOTE ]

I cant beleieve they still have addmitted no wrongdoing.

[apefish]

[ QUOTE ]

man, mrs vig was (and presumably still is) f hot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quoted for god damn right.

[ericicecream]

[ QUOTE ]
It is ABSOLUTELY correct.

Please know that the casino fee is NOT coming out of the players money. I explained this in a letter that I posted last night. We only accept a site fee from the casino. The 9% goes to the Venetian and a 5% donation, ONLY from the main event, which was stated in the website, and in the tournament rules and regulations, went to the Nevada Childrens Cancer Foundation.

However, going forward we are not going to be including a charity component within the tournament structure, and if we do include a charity in our event we will be paying them directly from our site fee.

Please let me know if you have any other concerns or questions.

Maria Gomez
CEO POKER

[/ QUOTE ]

These posts are useless without pics

[stephenNUTS]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One thing is for sure. There won't be a Pro that won't know by the end of the month. CEO tour bites the dust.

You think when they found they only had 38 entries, they decided, well, this isn't gonna take off, let's make sumpin for a charity and let it die .

[/ QUOTE ]

BINGO

[/ QUOTE ]

The more I think back to the TAJ disaster from their prospective,I am now leaning towards their thinking....."how can we make some money since A/C was such a BUST"?

"lets find some other loophole,fineprint a 20% fee/donation and cut some Nevada charity a check,and we can take an even bigger cut,once we bury it in some legal/charitable/fineprinted BS clause"

"we will now make some money this time,and IF anyone happens to revolt/notice/complain,we can show them the sheet with the fine print deductions ,that unfortunatley most players dont bother to read anyway,including ME,and say it was all on the Up and UP guys,it says it right here in writing"

I am not an attorney but I am almost 100% postive,in New York at least,there are specific guidelines,laws,restrictions,etc. that MUST be followed regarding charities,and I would also agree Nevada Gaming would have their eyes on this as well.

I would love to see the paperwork that states all these percentage deductions are in line,but legal as well,from a charitable standpoint,and properly allocated accordingly!

And last but not least...............Where does The Venetian Hotel itself stand in this mess?

Its obvious they had the charity President sign on as a member here at 2+2,and defend his charity(which in all fairness could just be an innocent party in this mess receiving a check for a good cause).

But my street instincts are telling me, The CEO Poker tour got alot more money ,than the charity itself,The Venetian,or whatever other BS donations to the staff,etc.than ANYONE else did!

As a couple of posters have already said,NO ONE in the world could/would play on this "Tour" and not go broke in fees alone,trying to overcome a 20% haircut.The variance in standard tournaments ,with 3-5% haircuts is tough enough given the size of the fields,luck,afterwinning tip-outs,etc

IMO ,they have buried themselves already with NO chance of survival going foward,but I am [censored] steaming when I feel I have been taken advantage of,and made the sucker!

~stephen feraca /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[PokeReader]

Stephen, did you play the AC event, what was the vig there?

[stephenNUTS]

PokeReader,

Yes,I played in the A/C CEO Tour Main Event,and I am going to check my seat card for the exact amount of the entry.I put a deposit via C/C over the phone,as Maria STRESSED how the event was almost SOLD out,and in order for me not to "lose out",I gave the $500 deposit over the phone,and as soon as I arrived I paid the balance in CASH to her and Willaim.
They actually had a little desk and chair in the front of the poker room,and were counting the cash together,with NO CASINO personal around .It was a wierd set-up,but I assumed since the TAJ was holding the event,looking at their numerous e-mails,websites and MULTIPLE converstaions with both of them the weeks prior,I didnt think anything was wrong.

I obviuosly would NEVER have played if I knew there were only 38 players!

I am trying to hunt down the structure sheet,as I do NOT think there ever was a mention of a charity.That is why I commented above,about them "figuring out" another way to make some $$$$,as they must have took a beating at the TAJ,and came up with the charity brainstorm at the Venetian Series

I just KNOW something aint right though now!

Shame on me,
~stephen feraca

[PokeReader]

CEO Poker Challenge Rivals World Series of Poker Tournament While visiting Las Vegas this summer for the World Series of Poker, it will be worthwhile to check out other poker tournaments, such as the CEO Poker Tournament.
The event will be held at the Venetian Casino and Resort from July 2-8, 2007, following the last days before the start of the 2007 World Series of Poker Main Event, which will begin on July 6, 2007.
The event may not be as big as the World Series of Poker Event, but the CEO Poker Challenge winner will take home cash prizes as well as a championship bracelet and trophy.
William Peraza, the Chief Executive Officer of CEO Poker, said that the CEO Poker Challenge is one of the inexpensive bracelet events in Las Vegas this summer with a buy-in starting at $500-$2,500.
Pre-registration for the tournament is every Tuesday at the tournament's official website. The tournament is open to all interested players. The schedule of the tournament will start on July 2, 2007 at 5:00 p.m. with event 1 $500+$50 No-Limit Poker Hold'em Event.
The second day will be held on July 3, 2007 at 11:00 a.m. with the Event 2 $110+$20 Super Satellite Poker Events 5, 6 and 7. The third day will be at 5:00 p.m. of the same day with the Event 2 $500+50 No Limit Hold'em poker tournament.
The fourth day will be held on July 4, 2007 at 11:00 a.m. with $110+$20 Super Satellite to Poker Events 5, 6 and 7. At 5:00 p.m. of the same day, the Event 3 $500+$50.
The fifth day will be held on July 5, 2007 at 11:00 a.m. $110+$20 Super Satellite to Events 5, 6, and 7. At 5:00 p.m., Event 4 $500+$50 No-Limit Hold'em Tournament. The sixth day will be on July 6, 2007 at 5:00 p.m.
Event 5 $1,000+$75 No-Limit Hold'em event. The seventh day will be on July 7, 2007 at 5:00 p.m. Event 6 $1,000+$75 No-Limit Hold'em event. The eight day will be on July 8, 2007 at 5:00 p.m. Event 7 $1,000+$75 No-Limit Hold'em Event.
The ninth day will be on July 9, 2007 at 5:00 p.m. Event 8 $2,500+$100 No-Limit Hold'em event and the tenth day will be on July 10, 2007 at 12:00 noon $2,500+$100 No-Limit Hold'em final poker game.


This was a press release they sent out. These people must have gone to the effort of asking them about the vig, because the score plus of the other releases I went though conviently just had buy-in numbers. However, since in every p.r. they sent out on this they failed to disclose the charity/fundraising aspect of the tournament, and in this one they clearly intentionally misreport juice amounts in exactly the same way they did at the day of the tournament. What I really don't understand is that if they have been doing this all the time, how has it not blow up yet?

http://www.alldaypoker.com/ceo-poker-challenge-rivals-06-27-07.html

[PokeReader]

In addition, CEOs who sign up for the tournament before October 22 will also get free entrance to a poker bootcamp organized by the company, which is scheduled to take place the day before the tournament.

Did you get your bootcamp Steve? Lol.

[PokeReader]

They are prominently featuring your name in their press, I assume you signed a release,

Attendees included: Stephen "the NUTS" Feraca, who also placed in the final table of the US Poker Championship at the Trump Taj Mahal, Harry White, executive and poker aficionado, Tom Messner, CEO and advertising guru, Bobby "Blaster" Payne, of Smilingbulldog.com, among hundreds of others.

Just another thing to &*%$ you off with these people. I really don't understand it, they both seem very competent individually from a business prospective, I guess they just thought they didn't need some one who already knew poker, and now it will cost them.

http://news.bigg.net/n58781-CEO_POKER_TO..._Taj_Mahal.html (http://news.bigg.net/n58781-CEO_POKER_TOUR_Has_Phenomenal_First_Day_Tournament _at_the_Trump_Taj_Mahal.html)

[stephenNUTS]

[ QUOTE ]
In addition, CEOs who sign up for the tournament before October 22 will also get free entrance to a poker bootcamp organized by the company, which is scheduled to take place the day before the tournament.

Did you get your bootcamp Steve? Lol.

[/ QUOTE ]


I didnt even see that ,as that is pretty funny /images/graemlins/smile.gif

It is very obvious now, this operation doesnt know squat about poker tournaments,and thought they could pull a fast one on the poker community,with the charity BS,donations,mis-leading # of entrants,press releases,etc. and it backfired on them bigtime!

I would venture to guess,their creditability is BUSTOLA!

~sf

[Mama Poker]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL @ the President of the big-time CEO Poker Tour's email address being at AOL. Who is this person, my mom?

[/ QUOTE ]

PFFFT
Not a chance. Mama has gmail.

[Mama Poker]

Serious question..
Can these people take money from a person, write a check to the charity and get the TAX DEDUCTION for themselves?
I alway have a receipt for my donations, shouldn't they be giving and/or offered each player a receipt for the amount paid to the charity?

[Mason Malmuth]

Maria:

I havent read all the posts in this thread, but it sure looks like this tournament had a lot of problems and many of your customers are quite unhappy. The bottom line is that you need to let the players know exactly what a tournament is going to cost, and further, you need to keep that cost reasonable if your organization is going to have any chance of success. Poker players, like most everyone, don't like discovering after the fact that they were charged much more than they thought the cost was going to be.

It's very clear to me that you now have a rocky start to your operation -- I assume this was your first tournament since, to me anyway, you were unheard of before. But if you quickly address these issues and make the costs of your future events transparent and reasonable, perhaps your future can also be good.

Best wishes,

Mason Malmuth

[pig4bill]

[ QUOTE ]
Serious question..
Can these people take money from a person, write a check to the charity and get the TAX DEDUCTION for themselves?
I alway have a receipt for my donations, shouldn't they be giving and/or offered each player a receipt for the amount paid to the charity?

[/ QUOTE ]

They did it. The question that remains is if they will get away with it.

[doublejoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Maria:

I havent read all the posts in this thread, but it sure looks like this tournament had a lot of problems and many of your customers are quite unhappy. The bottom line is that you need to let the players know exactly what a tournament is going to cost, and further, you need to keep that cost reasonable if your organization is going to have any chance of success. Poker players, like most everyone, don't like discovering after the fact that they were charged much more than they thought the cost was going to be.

It's very clear to me that you now have a rocky start to your operation -- I assume this was your first tournament since, to me anyway, you were unheard of before. But if you quickly address these issues and make the costs of your future events transparent and reasonable, perhaps your future can also be good.

Best wishes,

Mason Malmuth

[/ QUOTE ]

Mason is as always the voice of reason; tell the people up front what they are paying; don't deceptively tack on charge after charge and then try to defend it later as site fees etc.

[doublejoker]

[ QUOTE ]
CEO Poker Challenge Rivals World Series of Poker Tournament While visiting Las Vegas this summer for the World Series of Poker, it will be worthwhile to check out other poker tournaments, such as the CEO Poker Tournament.
The event will be held at the Venetian Casino and Resort from July 2-8, 2007, following the last days before the start of the 2007 World Series of Poker Main Event, which will begin on July 6, 2007.
The event may not be as big as the World Series of Poker Event, but the CEO Poker Challenge winner will take home cash prizes as well as a championship bracelet and trophy.
William Peraza, the Chief Executive Officer of CEO Poker, said that the CEO Poker Challenge is one of the inexpensive bracelet events in Las Vegas this summer with a buy-in starting at $500-$2,500.
Pre-registration for the tournament is every Tuesday at the tournament's official website. The tournament is open to all interested players. The schedule of the tournament will start on July 2, 2007 at 5:00 p.m. with event 1 $500+$50 No-Limit Poker Hold'em Event.
The second day will be held on July 3, 2007 at 11:00 a.m. with the Event 2 $110+$20 Super Satellite Poker Events 5, 6 and 7. The third day will be at 5:00 p.m. of the same day with the Event 2 $500+50 No Limit Hold'em poker tournament.
The fourth day will be held on July 4, 2007 at 11:00 a.m. with $110+$20 Super Satellite to Poker Events 5, 6 and 7. At 5:00 p.m. of the same day, the Event 3 $500+$50.
The fifth day will be held on July 5, 2007 at 11:00 a.m. $110+$20 Super Satellite to Events 5, 6, and 7. At 5:00 p.m., Event 4 $500+$50 No-Limit Hold'em Tournament. The sixth day will be on July 6, 2007 at 5:00 p.m.
Event 5 $1,000+$75 No-Limit Hold'em event. The seventh day will be on July 7, 2007 at 5:00 p.m. Event 6 $1,000+$75 No-Limit Hold'em event. The eight day will be on July 8, 2007 at 5:00 p.m. Event 7 $1,000+$75 No-Limit Hold'em Event.
The ninth day will be on July 9, 2007 at 5:00 p.m. Event 8 $2,500+$100 No-Limit Hold'em event and the tenth day will be on July 10, 2007 at 12:00 noon $2,500+$100 No-Limit Hold'em final poker game.


This was a press release they sent out. These people must have gone to the effort of asking them about the vig, because the score plus of the other releases I went though conviently just had buy-in numbers. However, since in every p.r. they sent out on this they failed to disclose the charity/fundraising aspect of the tournament, and in this one they clearly intentionally misreport juice amounts in exactly the same way they did at the day of the tournament. What I really don't understand is that if they have been doing this all the time, how has it not blow up yet?



[/ QUOTE ]

They specifially state in the press releaase the Championship event is $2500 + $100; How was a player to know that the actual juice and "site fees" totalled over $450 per player. $350 x 235 players is a huge amount of money to be unaccounted for.

[doublejoker]

Can anyone access the final results of the $5,000 tourney at the taj? I wonder how much money the 38 players received?

The prize pool should have been $190,000..

[Spook]

MAY 24 - EVENT STATS

Total Entrants: 45
Prize Pool: $155,200.00
Michael Santoro $69,840.00
Charles Minter $38,800.00
Bianco Benedetto $23,280.00
John Agliakoro $15,520.00
Angel Modica $7,760.00

[doublejoker]

i found it. Here are the numbers; they collected $225,000 plus juice from 45 players; here is the breakdown...


EVENT: No-Limit Hold'em Championship Event 6
ROUND: N/A BLINDS: N/A ANTE: N/A PLAYERS LEFT: N/A

BUY-IN $5,000
TOTAL PRIZE POOL $155,200
ENTRIES 45
FINAL RESULTS: May.24 VIEW STANDINGS: May.24
PLACE PLAYER PRIZE/CHIPSPOY POINTS
1Michael Santoro$69,8400
2Charles Minter$38,8000
3Bianco Benedetto$23,2800
4John Aglialoro$15,5200
5Angel Modica$7,7600

There is $70,000 missing????

[doublejoker]

If i read this right they collected $225,000 PLUS juice and paid out $155,200. Where is the other $70,000?

[Kevmath]

The first CEO Poker Tour series of tournaments was held over at the Palms in October. They did three $1500+300 tournaments with the same issue of the prize pool appearing to be shorted. The first tournament (with links to the other 3) can be found here. (http://www.pokerpages.com/tournament/result16817.htm)

[doublejoker]

I just checked one of the $1,000 tourneys fron Venetian; in this case they charged a staggering amount of juice as well. They collected $1,075 x 174 players ($187,050) and paid out $158,339.


EVENT: No-Limit Hold'em Event 7
BUY-IN $1,000
TOTAL PRIZE POOL $158,339
ENTRIES 174

1Bryan Watkins$49,085408
2Mike Leah$28,818340
3Aaron Krebs$17,417272
4Mohammad Hamid$14,251204
5Giovanni Rigolli$9,500170
6Charles Denton$7,917136
7Darcy McLeod$6,334102

[doublejoker]

[ QUOTE ]
The first CEO Poker Tour series of tournaments was held over at the Palms in October. They did three $1500+300 tournaments with the same issue of the prize pool appearing to be shorted. The first tournament (with links to the other 3) can be found here. (http://www.pokerpages.com/tournament/result16817.htm)

[/ QUOTE ]

wow in that one they collected $55,800 and paid out just over $40,000? this is insane? Why has this not come to light sooner?

CEO Poker Tournament
Event #1 - No Limit Hold'em
October 23, 2006
Palms
Tournament Schedule
Buy-In $1,500 + $300
Prize Pool $40,105
Entries 31

[Crane]

This whole fiasco reminds me of the old Oleans tournaments, where the tournament director was skimming money off of the re-buy tournaments to feed his video poker habit.

He was getting away with it no problem, when one day someone counted up the prize money and noticed the discrepancy.

He was canned as soon as they figured it out. I don't know if anything else happened to him, and I haven't heard from him since. I can't remember his name either.

Maybe someone out there remembers this.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
Maria:

You are obviously a born scammer. Your best move in this situation, which I'm sure you realize and intend, is to disappear, taking as much money as you can with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[Steve Brecher]

[ QUOTE ]
...At the WSOP ME it is $9700 + $300....

[/ QUOTE ]The WSOP ME is $9400+600, with no additional withholding for staff.

[Dynasty]

With more information about other CEO tournaments, I now think somebody who actually played in one of these events should contact the Nevada Gaming Commission.

[stephenNUTS]

[ QUOTE ]
With more information about other CEO tournaments, I now think somebody who actually played in one of these events should contact the Nevada Gaming Commission.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are there any other 2+2'ers that played in the A/C or Venetian CEO Events,as I will start the process,and as you know ,there is power in #'s!

FWIW Maria sent me a text today on AIM(obviously after she read my posts),with a ........."are you there to talk,Stephen"?
I didnt reply,as I think its abit too late Maria!

~stephen feraca

[doublejoker]

Steven did you see the other events where they have pulled the same thing. This has happened over THREE different sets of events with the numbers posted here at two plus two. I cant believe the amount the prizepool was off at the Taj Mahal. Then it is discovered the same thing happened again at the Palms and now the Venetiaan. This is not an isolated incident.

[stephenNUTS]

I just read this and am even SICKER!!
There were only 31 entries,as for some reason I thought it was 38?

After getting knocked out 11th,I immediatley left the TAJ and went back to N.Y,in total disgust.I even sent the CEO Tour a follow up e-mail about being unhappy about the misleading # of entires that Maria told me on the phone of 150+.I remember her giving me some BS about cancellations,CEO's that had other obligations,whatever,it was total non-sense,and I am absolutley mortified about being hustled now!

~stephen feraca

[Synergistic Explosions]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The first CEO Poker Tour series of tournaments was held over at the Palms in October. They did three $1500+300 tournaments with the same issue of the prize pool appearing to be shorted. The first tournament (with links to the other 3) can be found here. (http://www.pokerpages.com/tournament/result16817.htm)

[/ QUOTE ]

wow in that one they collected $55,800 and paid out just over $40,000? this is insane? Why has this not come to light sooner?

CEO Poker Tournament
Event #1 - No Limit Hold'em
October 23, 2006
Palms
Tournament Schedule
Buy-In $1,500 + $300
Prize Pool $40,105
Entries 31

[/ QUOTE ]

1300+500 would of been the way to advertise this one. It does make the recent 2150+450 Venetian one look like a bargain!!

[doublejoker]

The 31 entries were at the Palms CEO event

[stephenNUTS]

[ QUOTE ]
The 31 entries were at the Palms CEO event

[/ QUOTE ]

OK I got it confused,but the Main Event I entered at the TAJ had 45 entrants?

Is that confirmed?

~sf

[doublejoker]

Here is a summary of the 4 Tournaments reported thus far....

Palms CEO Event:

wow in that one they collected $55,800 and paid out just over $40,000? this is insane? Why has this not come to light sooner?

CEO Poker Tournament
Event #1 - No Limit Hold'em
October 23, 2006
Palms
Tournament Schedule
Buy-In $1,500 + $300
Prize Pool $40,105
Entries 31



Taj Mahal Main Event:

i found it. Here are the numbers; they collected $225,000 plus juice from 45 players; here is the breakdown...


EVENT: No-Limit Hold'em Championship Event 6
ROUND: N/A BLINDS: N/A ANTE: N/A PLAYERS LEFT: N/A

BUY-IN $5,000
TOTAL PRIZE POOL $155,200
ENTRIES 45
FINAL RESULTS: May.24 VIEW STANDINGS: May.24
PLACE PLAYER PRIZE/CHIPSPOY POINTS
1Michael Santoro$69,8400
2Charles Minter$38,8000
3Bianco Benedetto$23,2800
4John Aglialoro$15,5200
5Angel Modica$7,7600

There is $70,000 missing???? Acually more than $70,000 I beleive the buyin was $5,150 not $5,000.


Venetian $1,000 Event:


I just checked one of the $1,000 tourneys fron Venetian; in this case they charged a staggering amount of juice as well. They collected $1,075 x 174 players ($187,050) and paid out $158,339.


EVENT: No-Limit Hold'em Event 7
BUY-IN $1,000
TOTAL PRIZE POOL $158,339
ENTRIES 174

1Bryan Watkins$49,085408
2Mike Leah$28,818340
3Aaron Krebs$17,417272
4Mohammad Hamid$14,251204
5Giovanni Rigolli$9,500170
6Charles Denton$7,917136
7Darcy McLeod$6,334102

Venetian Main Event:

$2500 buyin

$100 to Venetian
$150 CEO "site fee"
$125 CEO Charity
$75 Venetian staff


234 entries at $2600 ($608,400)

Final prizepool of $503,100

BUY-IN $2,500
TOTAL PRIZE POOL $503,100
ENTRIES 234



This really is out of hand Players cannot have any reasonable chance when they start out 20% in the hole.

The entire entry fee of 2 players per table is removed from the prizepool.

[doublejoker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The 31 entries were at the Palms CEO event

[/ QUOTE ]

OK I got it confused,but the Main Event I entered at the TAJ had 45 entrants?

Is that confirmed?

~sf

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to assume the numbers reported by Cardplayer are correct.

[PokeReader]

The fact that they publicly advertised their buy-ins at false price levels puts them on the hook for that at the least. You could not adverstise it as a 2500+100 tourney, even if you had information clearly at the event stating the real vig. It is called a bait and switch, and is a specific scam that is legislated against. I expect that legally all the participants will be entitled to their full buy-ins returned, and I am not sure how the law will treat the shorting of the prize pool, but I would expect restitution would be required there as well. As such, the operators of this company would be irresponsible to not consider immediate restitution of all injured parties.

[stephenNUTS]

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that they publicly advertised their buy-ins at false price levels puts them on the hook for that at the least. You could not adverstise it as a 2500+100 tourney, even if you had information clearly at the event stating the real vig. It is called a bait and switch, and is a specific scam that is legislated against . I expect that legally all the participants will be entitled to their full buy-ins returned, and I am not sure how the law will treat the shorting of the prize pool, but I would expect restitution would be required there as well. As such, the operators of this company would be irresponsible to not consider immediate restitution of all injured parties.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is what it seems like,

now if anyone can get monies refunded is the whole other story IMO!

~stephen

[craigmarq]

Anyone feel like posting contact info for the nevada gaming commission. I played int he 2.5k main event and am more than willing to contact them.


Craig

[stephenNUTS]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone feel like posting contact info for the nevada gaming commission. I played int he 2.5k main event and am more than willing to contact them.


Craig

[/ QUOTE ]

http://gaming.nv.gov/address_phone.htm#lv

[PokeReader]

Generally consumer recompense in a bait and switch is refunding of purchase price. Ergo, in this case, I believe individuals would be entitled to their buy-ins. However, I am not specifically familar with Nevada law, and cannot say for sure that there are not any statutes that deals more particularly with gambling and false adverting.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
This whole fiasco reminds me of the old Oleans tournaments, where the tournament director was skimming money off of the re-buy tournaments to feed his video poker habit.

He was getting away with it no problem, when one day someone counted up the prize money and noticed the discrepancy.

He was canned as soon as they figured it out. I don't know if anything else happened to him, and I haven't heard from him since. I can't remember his name either.

Maybe someone out there remembers this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I remeber this well.

[Bonified]

[ QUOTE ]
What I really don't understand is that if they have been doing this all the time, how has it not blow up yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT, this amazes me. Three times before and no one complained, at least not loud enough for most people to hear ? As players, we need to be more vigilant and to protect ourselves better. Having said that, kudos to the people who have brought this to light now.

[Kevmath]

Looks like the name was David Hirscina, at least from what I was able to figure out over at recpoker.com . This was in 2002 I'm assuming.

Edit: More details from
RGP in 2000. (http://groups.google.ca/group/rec.gambling.poker/browse_frm/thread/728c105746eabac7/b559be4673cae3ae?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dhirscina%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D3999795F.C4A0AFE0%2540hotmail.com%26rnu m%3D2#b559be4673cae3ae)

[JPinAZ]

[ QUOTE ]
Serious question..
Can these people take money from a person, write a check to the charity and get the TAX DEDUCTION for themselves?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes they can. The IRS only allows whoever actually gave the money to the charity to take the deduction. If you collected money from your friend/coworkers/whatever to donate to a charity, only you'd be able to take the deduction.

[JPinAZ]

From the WhoIs record for ceopokertour.com:
[ QUOTE ]

Registrant:
CEO Poker Tour

6039 Collins Avenue
Miami Beach, Florida 33141
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: CEOPOKERTOUR.COM
Created on: 16-Jul-05
Expires on: 16-Jul-08
Last Updated on:

Administrative Contact:
Peraza, William william@reachon.com
CEO Poker Tour
6039 Collins Avenue
Miami Beach, Florida 33141
United States
+1.3057614371 Fax -- +1.3057614371

Technical Contact:
Peraza, William william@reachon.com
CEO Poker Tour
6039 Collins Avenue
Miami Beach, Florida 33141
United States
+1.3057614371 Fax -- +1.3057614371

Domain servers in listed order:
NS.PROPAGATION.NET
NS2.PROPAGATION.NET


[/ QUOTE ]

The contact info page for reachon.com (an email marketing company) lists william@reachon.com as the customer service email.

And that address for ceopokertour.com?

http://www.kafka-franz.com/maison-grande-condo.htm

[Quicksilvre]

Good god, the Palms tournaments were insane. There's $20,000 missing from the the $1,500 tournaments. And then, for whatever reason, they added $13,000 to the main event (when 21 players showed up.)

Incidentally all of the tournament records seem to be here, for anyone who wants to see for themselves:

PokerPages database (http://www.pokerpages.com/tournament/majorlisting.php3?subval=CEO&subkey=Description&Mo nth=0&Year=0&tournType=major&tournSearch.x=111&tou rnSearch.y=5&tournSearch=Search+Tournament+Databas e)

[BogusRogus]

[ QUOTE ]
I even sent the CEO Tour a follow up e-mail about being unhappy about the misleading # of entires that Maria told me on the phone of 150+.I remember her giving me some BS about cancellations,CEO's that had other obligations,whatever,it was total non-sense,and I am absolutley mortified about being hustled now!

~stephen feraca

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah - Scrushy, Lay, and Kozwolski had to cancel.

[doublejoker]

It's happened many more than three ties before; these were just examples posted by twoplustowers. I'm sure if you checked every last tourney they would all have similar discrepancies as these...


Here is a summary of the 4 Tournaments reported thus far....

Palms CEO Event:

wow in that one they collected $55,800 and paid out just over $40,000? this is insane? Why has this not come to light sooner?

CEO Poker Tournament
Event #1 - No Limit Hold'em
October 23, 2006
Palms
Tournament Schedule
Buy-In $1,500 + $300
Prize Pool $40,105
Entries 31



Taj Mahal Main Event:

i found it. Here are the numbers; they collected $225,000 plus juice from 45 players; here is the breakdown...


EVENT: No-Limit Hold'em Championship Event 6
ROUND: N/A BLINDS: N/A ANTE: N/A PLAYERS LEFT: N/A

BUY-IN $5,000
TOTAL PRIZE POOL $155,200
ENTRIES 45
FINAL RESULTS: May.24 VIEW STANDINGS: May.24
PLACE PLAYER PRIZE/CHIPSPOY POINTS
1Michael Santoro$69,8400
2Charles Minter$38,8000
3Bianco Benedetto$23,2800
4John Aglialoro$15,5200
5Angel Modica$7,7600

There is $70,000 missing???? Acually more than $70,000 I beleive the buyin was $5,150 not $5,000.


Venetian $1,000 Event:


I just checked one of the $1,000 tourneys fron Venetian; in this case they charged a staggering amount of juice as well. They collected $1,075 x 174 players ($187,050) and paid out $158,339.


EVENT: No-Limit Hold'em Event 7
BUY-IN $1,000
TOTAL PRIZE POOL $158,339
ENTRIES 174

1Bryan Watkins$49,085408
2Mike Leah$28,818340
3Aaron Krebs$17,417272
4Mohammad Hamid$14,251204
5Giovanni Rigolli$9,500170
6Charles Denton$7,917136
7Darcy McLeod$6,334102

Venetian Main Event:

$2500 buyin

$100 to Venetian
$150 CEO "site fee"
$125 CEO Charity
$75 Venetian staff


234 entries at $2600 ($608,400)

Final prizepool of $503,100

BUY-IN $2,500
TOTAL PRIZE POOL $503,100
ENTRIES 234



This really is out of hand Players cannot have any reasonable chance when they start out 20% in the hole.

The entire entry fee of 2 players per table is removed from the prizepool.

[stephenNUTS]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I even sent the CEO Tour a follow up e-mail about being unhappy about the misleading # of entires that Maria told me on the phone of 150+.I remember her giving me some BS about cancellations,CEO's that had other obligations,whatever,it was total non-sense,and I am absolutley mortified about being hustled now!

~stephen feraca

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah - Scrushy, Lay, and Kozwolski had to cancel.

[/ QUOTE ]

I expected a retort like this which is pretty funny,but even if you account for 10-20 MORE WS Crooks(beleive me there are thousands),where are the OTHER 130+ players/CEO's she promised were already sigend up at the TAJ,after she basically called me/e-mailed everyday about pre-registration and "limited seating due to the intense demand"?

Yeah Right!!!

Another thing bothering me now is that MARIA specifically implied to me when I asked her about "elligible" players(in other words,do you have to have proof of being a CEO,or run a company to be eligible,and she told me at the TAJ....anyone could basically play,BUT at the Venetian,you HAD TO BE a corporate officer,businees owner,titled public officer of a WS firm,etc...........just MORE BS,as they would have taken the $2600 from ANYONE who walked up with CASH and a Venetian players card,whether they ran General Electric,or had a tin cup and an accordian on Las Vegas Blvd.)

This whole thing is and ALWAYS was a SCAM,and they are using charity,staff donations,fineprint, etc,as a way to make some pretty decent monies off most players naivity,along with total mis-representation of the actual costs of each event/series as they occured.It is QUITE obvious now,that this was not just the TAJ and Venetian ,but every series they ran ,in all diff. casinos as well it seems

Dont these [censored] money hungry casinos do background checks,or at least look into the whole structure/payout #'s with a little more intensity before something like this occurs,esp. when the word CHARITY pops up?

Can "WE" just walk into the Venetion,call ourselves the "$500+ $300+200+$100 1st Annual Poker Champions of the World Tour" ,and any legitimate casino would say "sure Stephen,just as long as we get OUR cut,do whatever you like sir"?

Where is the Nevada Gaming Commission in thse spots,and do they even care or get involved?

It CANT possibly be good press for the TAJ or the Venetian,or the whole poker tour scene in general,as players(esp ME) will be scrutinizing the these events with a keen eye to the max IMO .

Reading some of the basic math with regard to pool size-payout ratio posted by others here, leaves these crooks with a nice chunk of money in each event of each series,at least diuring these most recent A/C and L/V stops as posted above?

WOW,I am so stunned because ,as this gets deeper and deeper, more and more crap is dug up each time I sign in!

~stephen /images/graemlins/confused.gif