Legality of hosting a homegame online

[+EV]

Hello All,

I am interested in whether or not it is illegal to host a pokergame online if no rake is taken.

I have a few friends who are interested from my home game in participating on a regular basis. However, we all have moved recently to different localities and driving to a game no longer makes sense for a lot of the people who used to play (one hour or more drives each way and late at night midweek suck).

If I were to design a good poker client, allow people to fund it using credit cards or bank transaction to a real bank account, and play with no rake, would this be considered illegal?

Some ramifications I can see right off the bat...
1) Poker client software would be tedious and possibly prohibitively expensive to produce.
2) Bank transactions would have to be done via a service like paypal and transactions like this these days are not easy.
3) If players lived in certain states where home games are illegal (not sure if they are or what states they are). I am located in MD and most of my friends live in different parts of VA. I am relatively certain home games are not illegal in either of these states as long as no rake is taken.
4) Does doing this over the internet make a rakeless game illegal?
5) Does putting all the funds into a bank account where interest might accrue (although miniscule) make the game illegal since the house might "profit?"

Thanks,
+EV

[NickMPK]

Home games are illegal in Maryland whether rake is taken or not.

[+EV]

[ QUOTE ]

Home games are illegal in Maryland whether rake is taken or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did not realize that. We have always hosted our game in Virginia. So it would be illegal for me to play if I stayed in Maryland.

Would it be illegal for my VA friends?

+EV

[Uglyowl]

If you friends are trust worthy try something on Yahoo! or something and then pony up $ after

[oldbookguy]

From a thread ANOTHER SKILL GAMING SITE:

There is an interesting standoff so to speak addressing this very issue, skill v chance in a town called Portsmouth, Va right now.

Va. has 2 laws, one concerning chance and one skill.

In Portsmouth they are running Texas Holdem Games under 'SKILL'.

The city attorney wants them shut down, the prosecuting attorney says no, they are skill.

They asked the CURRENT State Attorney General, he says it is a matter of Facts, not law and will not step in.

The former (no power now) State AG says chance (relied upon by the city attorney).

Other city Prosecuting Attorneys say chance....

Basically, the State AG is leaving it up to the locals to decide since the state legislature will not decide either.

The news paper stories are here:

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=126807&ran=47803 (March Of Dimes)

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=122639&ran=8980

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=122748&ran=211875

We need more prosecutors like Portsmouth, Va has!

obg



[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Home games are illegal in Maryland whether rake is taken or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did not realize that. We have always hosted our game in Virginia. So it would be illegal for me to play if I stayed in Maryland.

Would it be illegal for my VA friends?

+EV

[/ QUOTE ]

[+EV]

[ QUOTE ]
From a thread ANOTHER SKILL GAMING SITE:

There is an interesting standoff so to speak addressing this very issue, skill v chance in a town called Portsmouth, Va right now.

Va. has 2 laws, one concerning chance and one skill.

In Portsmouth they are running Texas Holdem Games under 'SKILL'.

The city attorney wants them shut down, the prosecuting attorney says no, they are skill.

They asked the CURRENT State Attorney General, he says it is a matter of Facts, not law and will not step in.

The former (no power now) State AG says chance (relied upon by the city attorney).

Other city Prosecuting Attorneys say chance....

Basically, the State AG is leaving it up to the locals to decide since the state legislature will not decide either.

The news paper stories are here:

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=126807&ran=47803 (March Of Dimes)

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=122639&ran=8980

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=122748&ran=211875

We need more prosecutors like Portsmouth, Va has!

obg



[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Home games are illegal in Maryland whether rake is taken or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did not realize that. We have always hosted our game in Virginia. So it would be illegal for me to play if I stayed in Maryland.

Would it be illegal for my VA friends?

+EV

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

This is actually a very interesting story. My impression up to this point was that home poker games are legal in VA as long as no rake is taken and the host or home that sponsors the game makes no money off it.

So is it illegal to play in a home game in VA?

+EV

[+EV]

[ QUOTE ]
If you friends are trust worthy try something on Yahoo! or something and then pony up $ after

[/ QUOTE ]

Does Yahoo have a free poker client that you can play? I didn't realize that they did but that might be a viable option.

I am not sure if my friends are trustworthy, since this option would require a lot more effort than just splitting the pot up at the end of the night. Maybe they are trustworthy but lazy?

+EV

[oldbookguy]

well, I would give no advice either way, as you can read (the portsmouth artcles) there is no clear cut yes / no.

obg

[+EV]

[ QUOTE ]

well, I would give no advice either way, as you can read (the portsmouth artcles) there is no clear cut yes / no.

obg

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Well lets assume that the home game were to be in any other state in the US where there is not directly a law making it illegal. Lets say NY for example. I am pretty sure that you can play poker in a home game with no rake in NY. So if we were all in NY would we be able to do this?

+EV

[oldbookguy]

I am not certain what you are looking for, however, legalities need to be addressed in the state by someone from that state.

All we (I) can offer here is information, for legal advice, consult an attorney in NY for NY.

As to the Virginia info, well, that is contained in the newspaper accounts.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

well, I would give no advice either way, as you can read (the portsmouth artcles) there is no clear cut yes / no.

obg

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Well lets assume that the home game were to be in any other state in the US where there is not directly a law making it illegal. Lets say NY for example. I am pretty sure that you can play poker in a home game with no rake in NY. So if we were all in NY would we be able to do this?

+EV

[/ QUOTE ]

[DMoogle]

I live in VA. Home poker games are perfectly fine as long as there is NO entry fee, rake, or any type of business going on. However, if there is something like that, then both the players AND the hosts can get into tons of trouble.

[+EV]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not certain what you are looking for, however, legalities need to be addressed in the state by someone from that state.

All we (I) can offer here is information, for legal advice, consult an attorney in NY for NY.

As to the Virginia info, well, that is contained in the newspaper accounts.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

well, I would give no advice either way, as you can read (the portsmouth artcles) there is no clear cut yes / no.

obg

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Well lets assume that the home game were to be in any other state in the US where there is not directly a law making it illegal. Lets say NY for example. I am pretty sure that you can play poker in a home game with no rake in NY. So if we were all in NY would we be able to do this?

+EV

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I will show you my hand then since I am being less than forthcoming with all details.

My origional interest in this idea started from the exact question that I have put forth. Could this game be run legally in VA. I have a friend who proposed it for our home game.

However, this question got me thinking about the larger context. I am curious whether a poker room client could be run from inside the US to any and all customers from the united states as long as it did not charge for a rake and was legal in the state of the player as well as the state of the operator.

I am interested in the "What-if?" aspect of this since I believe that the operator could find may ways to profit (advertising or interest on the deposited monies) without directly charging rake. I feel like from what little I know, as long as players were blocked from any state that specifically disallows internet poker play, this could be a viable business as well as 100% legal.

So now that I have put out all the exact details, can anyone comment more specifically on any flaws (other than logistical ones like, how do you block players etc) in the legality of a poker room operating under these conditions?

+EV

[oldbookguy]

My only GUESS / opinion is based on the 'SKILL' games sites that offer cards games, they do block states that outlaw that specific activity.

There are threads here on the subject.

obg


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am not certain what you are looking for, however, legalities need to be addressed in the state by someone from that state.

All we (I) can offer here is information, for legal advice, consult an attorney in NY for NY.

As to the Virginia info, well, that is contained in the newspaper accounts.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

well, I would give no advice either way, as you can read (the portsmouth artcles) there is no clear cut yes / no.

obg

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Well lets assume that the home game were to be in any other state in the US where there is not directly a law making it illegal. Lets say NY for example. I am pretty sure that you can play poker in a home game with no rake in NY. So if we were all in NY would we be able to do this?

+EV

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I will show you my hand then since I am being less than forthcoming with all details.

My origional interest in this idea started from the exact question that I have put forth. Could this game be run legally in VA. I have a friend who proposed it for our home game.

However, this question got me thinking about the larger context. I am curious whether a poker room client could be run from inside the US to any and all customers from the united states as long as it did not charge for a rake and was legal in the state of the player as well as the state of the operator.

I am interested in the "What-if?" aspect of this since I believe that the operator could find may ways to profit (advertising or interest on the deposited monies) without directly charging rake. I feel like from what little I know, as long as players were blocked from any state that specifically disallows internet poker play, this could be a viable business as well as 100% legal.

So now that I have put out all the exact details, can anyone comment more specifically on any flaws (other than logistical ones like, how do you block players etc) in the legality of a poker room operating under these conditions?

+EV

[/ QUOTE ]

[JavaNut]

Not commenting on any legal issues.

But why not find a site where you can create private play money tables.

Then let a play money buy-in of say $1,000 represent say $50 in real money. After each evening note down how much play money each has left and convert that into real money.
And keep a tab on who owes who how much.

Making your own reliable poker client to be used over the internet can be done, but it will be quite a task to do so.

[Dane S]

[ QUOTE ]
I will show you my hand then since I am being less than forthcoming with all details.

My origional interest in this idea started from the exact question that I have put forth. Could this game be run legally in VA. I have a friend who proposed it for our home game.

However, this question got me thinking about the larger context. I am curious whether a poker room client could be run from inside the US to any and all customers from the united states as long as it did not charge for a rake and was legal in the state of the player as well as the state of the operator.

I am interested in the "What-if?" aspect of this since I believe that the operator could find may ways to profit (advertising or interest on the deposited monies) without directly charging rake. I feel like from what little I know, as long as players were blocked from any state that specifically disallows internet poker play, this could be a viable business as well as 100% legal.

So now that I have put out all the exact details, can anyone comment more specifically on any flaws (other than logistical ones like, how do you block players etc) in the legality of a poker room operating under these conditions?

+EV

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting idea. I hope there's more discussion.

[+EV]

[ QUOTE ]
Not commenting on any legal issues.

But why not find a site where you can create private play money tables.

Then let a play money buy-in of say $1,000 represent say $50 in real money. After each evening note down how much play money each has left and convert that into real money.
And keep a tab on who owes who how much.

Making your own reliable poker client to be used over the internet can be done, but it will be quite a task to do so.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the purpose of our home game this is actually a really good idea. Someone proposed it on Yahoo as well. The only issue is someone is going to have to either be involved with the collection and getting money from people.

This would all be much easier if we could set up tables at real money sites privately but most people don't want to pay the rake and a few of my friends don't like the hassle of trying to get money deposited.

+EV

[techvoodoo]

Why not just go to any poker site, find a play money table that has similar blinds that you want to play (you may convert $25/$50 to .25/.50 for example), then have one player be designated as the banker. This may require having a room where you can password protect the table so only your players can sit down, I think pokerroom.com allows this.

The banker keeps a note pad of all the players who get stacked and have to rebuy into the cash game, and keep track of everyones final stacks who are up. Once the game is over, all players who lost send/give the banker the money they lost, and then the banker pays out to all the players who won.

If someone welches on paying for their losings, well you have to handle that, but if your friends are trustworthy it shouldn't be a big deal. For having to play the role of banker you can even say the banker gets to keep some % of the money paid to him.

I'm sure you could even handle collecting payments via paypal, which will cost a small fee but if everyone is looking at paying the small fee or waiting for the check in the mail it's probably worth it.