neteller required a SSN for americans, but no SIN for canadians

[Robin Foolz]

for the purpose of opening an account.

i just got off live chat, which may or may not be a reliable source, asking this very question to them. live chat told me that canadians SINs are not mandatory for neither the purpose of opening a neteller account nor sending a bank wire nor for otherwise using any of the available neteller transfer services after opening an account.

my question is why was there a double standard, why was it necessary (and for what specific reason) for neteller to request a SSN from americans but not a SIN from canadians?

[Robin Foolz]

interesting chat log.

Chat InformationYou are now chatting with 'Cecilia'
Cecilia: Welcome to our live chat service. How may we help you?
j0: Hi, for what specific reason does neteller require a SIN/SSN as part of the sign up process?
Cecilia: which country are you located
j0: Hi, for what specific reason does neteller require SIN/SSN as part of the sign up process?
j0: is it mandatory
j0: that was my question
Cecilia: could you tell me which country you are located in
j0: would you answer my question, or should i call over the phone to get an answer
Cecilia: if I do not know what country are you located in how can I answer your question how do I know if it is mandatory'
j0: is, for example
j0: a social insurance number required
j0: to sign up
j0: social insurance numbers are canadian
j0: SIN
j0: they're numbers assigned specifically for tax purposes for the country supplying the number
Cecilia: yes everything on the create account form is mandatory
j0: since neteller is not a bank, nor a governing agency in, for instance, canada, why would it be necessary
for the person to submit a SIN as part of opening an account
j0: ok, so go back to my original question
j0: for what specific reason does neteller require SIN/SSN as part of the sign up process?
j0: whats is the relevant purpose neteller has for having a SIN?
Cecilia: you do not need to put SIN
Cecilia: Is there anything else I can assist you with?
j0: SIN is not a required field in the creat account form?
Cecilia: no you do not need to put that in
j0: what about for money transfer, will you need a SIN then
j0: such as bank wires
Cecilia: no you do not need that
Cecilia: no we do not need that
j0: if SIN are not required, how come SSN were required, why the difference
Cecilia: so which country are you in
j0: there were accounts that american persons opening neteller accounts had to supply SSNs
Cecilia: so are you in canada or usa
j0: i'm in between
j0: i'm wondering why neteller required usa persons to supply their SSN
j0: but didn't require canadians to supply their SIN, which are basically tax identifiers that have a similar
purpose to the SSN
Cecilia: please email compliance@neteller.com for your concern
j0: i'll look into that, one more thing if you can
j0: after a person enters his SSN to create account, does neteller store than ino indefinitely?
j0: ino=info
j0: is the number discarded or stored somewhaere, what happens with that info
Cecilia: so are you in usa why do you need to ask for all that
j0: because i'm exceptionally curious as to why neteller asks americans for their SSN, even though neteller is
no way associated with the usa
j0: and doesn't hold everyone else in other parts of the world to the same requirement
j0: e.g. canadians don't have to submit their SIN
Cecilia: do you have a NETELLER account
j0: i currently do not have a netller account
Cecilia: are you planning to open one
j0: i'm planning of opening one in the immediate future, perhaps before septemeber
Cecilia: so which country are you located in
j0: i'll be located probably back in my home country, which is xxxxxxx
j0: but i also have a citizenship from canada
Cecilia: then you do not need SSN or SIN so there is no purpose to ask those question
j0: the purpose was curiosity moreso than anything
Cecilia: if you have further concern please email compliance@neteller.com
j0: well, for now that is all i believe
j0: ok

[poorolrich]

Well, I don't know for sure but in Canada poker winnings are not taxable where they are in the U S so????????

[MiltonFriedman]

Aside from the fact that it is/was illegal in Canada to require someone to fill in their SIN in that sort of application, are you really asking a question of no current signifcance ? Are you purely waxing philosophical about what USED to be the application process ?

Neteller will not take new accounts from either Canada or the US ..... unless I missed something recent.

[Teddy_FBI]

ya i never really trusted neterller us hates it

[kevstreet]

Did Neteller always require a social security number from their US customers?

[Robin Foolz]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I don't know for sure but in Canada poker winnings are not taxable where they are in the U S so????????

[/ QUOTE ]

please finish this thought? i'm interested in reading where you're going with this.

[Robin Foolz]

[ QUOTE ]
Aside from the fact that it is/was illegal in Canada to require someone to fill in their SIN in that sort of application

[/ QUOTE ]

interesting. so notwithstanding canadian jurisdiction here, neteller was in compliance with this part of canadian law.

[ QUOTE ]
are you really asking a question of no current signifcance ? Are you purely waxing philosophical about what USED to be the application process ?

Neteller will not take new accounts from either Canada or the US ..... unless I missed something recent.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm asking because neteller wasn't able to explain this simple question (therefore i came here to see if anyone had any theories or otherwise any idea why this is/way neteller sop)

[ QUOTE ]
why was there a double standard, why was it necessary (and for what specific reason) for neteller to request a SSN from americans but not a SIN from canadians?

[/ QUOTE ]

[Robin Foolz]

[ QUOTE ]
ya i never really trusted neterller us hates it

[/ QUOTE ]

neteller makes it clear that they don't/didn't require a canadian tax identifying number from canadians for the purpose of opening an account. neteller is saying "ok. you can open an account with us without supplying this number. it's ok. we don't need it."

yet for americans it entirely the opposite. so, why the difference. for what purpose did neteller require SSNs from americans and what they did with this info after it was submitted. i think these are legit questions.

[Robin Foolz]

[ QUOTE ]
Did Neteller always require a social security number from their US customers?

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not sure. i myself opened an account in around mid-2003 and i'm pretty sure i had to supply a SSN as it was a required field in the account creation form. so personally i can attest that as of mid-2003 SSN was mandatory, at least for me, for opening an account with them.

[VegasPigeon]

The SSN is required for tax purposes; since Canada does not tax your gambling profits a SIN is not necessary.

[mtgordon]

Neteller is not associated directly with gambling profits. It may be used for that purpose or many other purposes I believe.

[MiltonFriedman]

This thread's topic is as dead as Julius Caesar.

There IS no Neteller for US or Canadian poker players to use, period.

It may not be "used" for any other purpose, I believe. (That is is not "associated directly with gambling profits" is irrelevant as it is not available for any use in the US or Canada.)

[MiltonFriedman]

LOL, it is NOT required for anything as you canNOT open a US account.

(a SSN never WAS required for "tax" purposes, in any event. In its settlement with the DOJ, Neteller however might USE it post hoc to rat out players to the IRS, bit Neteller did NOT previously report accounts to the US tax authorities.)

[Robin Foolz]

[ QUOTE ]
The SSN is required for tax purposes; since Canada does not tax your gambling profits a SIN is not necessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't understand the inference and logic here. the services that netller in and itself provide have no relevance to individual's tax liabilities.

further, neteller is not a regulatory agency of any sort and is not empowered by usa statutes and regulations to administer and enforce our existing tax law, and are neither mandated by usa law to collect and/or withhold monies for tax purposes.

but if you're saying that neteller is obligated by usa law to collect SSNs as part of filing, say 1099, with the irs at the end of the year, then i would appreciate if you could cite me the exact statutory law and/or regulations specifically saying that neteller or an entity like it is obligated to collect individuals' SSNs for the purpose of filing with the irs.

[Robin Foolz]

milton i thought it would be clear that my question was presented to look for answers in past-tense. i think it is an interesting topic. i'm glad that some people seem to want to explore the issue also.

[ QUOTE ]

(a SSN never WAS required for "tax" purposes, in any event.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you have a guess as to what it was required for or why it was required then? this is the gist of my original question.

[Mitch Evans]

[ QUOTE ]
Did Neteller always require a social security number from their US customers?

[/ QUOTE ]

When I signed up they did not require a social. A couple of years later they required the full number and then changed it to the last four digits a year or so after that.

[Mitch Evans]

[ QUOTE ]


do you have a guess as to what it was required for or why it was required then? this is the gist of my original question.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's probably a good idea to pull someone's credit report when offering 'instacash' options to gamblers.

[frommagio]

[ QUOTE ]

my question is why was there a double standard, why was it necessary (and for what specific reason) for neteller to request a SSN from americans but not a SIN from canadians?

[/ QUOTE ]

When I signed up for Neteller, I had a phone conversation with one of their representatives as a part of the account setup process. I remember asking why they wanted my SS number. His response was that it was required for Neteller's compliance with the US Patriot Act.