Starting an Internet poker advocacy 527/PAC

[TheEngineer]

I figured the discussion of setting up an Internet poker advocacy 527/PAC deserved its own thread (earlier discussion is at Vulnerable House Internet Poker Opponents (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=10893612&an=0&page=0#Pos t10893612)). It may be time for us to step up our advocacy efforts.

Questions: Do you all think we should do this? Are there viable alternatives, such as trying to push PPA into action (see Request for more member outreach by PPA (on the PPA website) (http://webringamerica.com/4/pokerplayersalliance/viewtopic.php?t=1607)? Who wants to participate? Anyone here experienced in leading a 527 or a PAC?

It sounds daunting, but it's doable. I imagine we’d start small, score some victories, and earn donations and recognition. This would lead to more members, bigger victories, and more donations. After a few cycles, we’d be big enough to make a difference.

Also, to do this we need a leader, someone experienced at running a PAC/527. Is anyone here with free time and a lot of energy ready to step up?

[TheEngineer]

from http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2519/is_n4_v17/ai_18300113

We plan to start a political action committee. Any advice?

1. Determine the purpose of your PAC. Do you plan to contribute to numerous candidates? Will you participate in both federal and non-federal races? Is your PAC primarily in-state or multi-state? Do you intend to make independent expenditures? Your answers will determine the rules and agencies governing your PAC.

2. File a "Statement of Organization" with the appropriate election authority, such as the FEC, state ethics commission, secretary of state, board of elections, etc.

3. Appoint a treasurer before accepting contributions or making disbursements. Responsibilities include filing reports, depositing funds, keeping records and ensuring compliance with finance laws at all times, including non-election years. PACs cannot receive contributions or make disbursements when the treasurer's office is vacant.

4. Obtain a taxpayer ID number from the IRS. Apply for employer-identification number, even if committee has no staff. Be prepared to pay taxes on interest and dividends.

5. Open a checking account. On finance reports, list name and address of bank with PAC deposits.

6. Become familiar with rules governing PACs. Federal law allows certain bills to be paid directly by sponsoring organizations; for example: office space, phones, salaries, utilities, supplies, bank charges, and fundraising costs. Consult state and local laws to determine what is allowed.

Also, determine the rules on soliciting contributions from employees or members of labor unions. Federal law limits solicitations (no more than twice a year); prohibits direct solicitation at work (mail to home it permitted); and requires that individuals be informed of their right to refuse (and remain anonymous if non-participant or nominal contributor).

Finally, dissolve the committee when you expect no further PAC activity. This usually requires an affidavit signed by the treasurer stating that all reportable activity is complete.

[TheEngineer]

Some 527 info is available on Wikipedia, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/527_group .

[DrewOnTilt]

I'd support it so count me in.

[Karak567]

I would be willing to volunteer for this. I am in PA for the summer and VA for the school year.

[Teldar]

As mentioned in the previous thread, I can devote some time to fundraising. However, I don't have the time to handle the treasury function and all the paperwork, etc.

[TehPokarKing]

I kind of assumed that the PPA either was going to start a PAC or had already done so.

Since that's obviously not the case, there is absolutely no reason why a PAC that represents the interests of poker players shouldn't exist. I wouldn't want to undermine any of the efforts of the PPA, but a PAC/527 could would be able to make a difference both in Congress and by changing public perception of this issue. Would the purpose of the committee be primarily to defeat candidates for office or change public opinion?

I have experience w/ setting up and maintaining PACs in Vermont, where I live currently, and would definitely like to help out. I also have a good amount of experience w/ political fundraising but only on a local/statewide level as well as a couple of contacts who are familiar w/ fundraising at thinktanks in DC. I don't know if they'd be necessarily sympathetic to our cause but they'd certainly offer me assistance and guidance if I asked for it.

At any rate, I'm leaving Vermont in August and would love to be more involved with this in some way. If you'd like, I'd be happy at least to try and work on a plan for this venture (with more details concerning the size of the potential fundraising pool, etc).

[TheEngineer]

Who's in?

[oldbookguy]

Count me in some where.

obg

[TheEngineer]

Speaking of PPA, I set up a thread on their site, at Request for more member outreach by PPA (on the PPA website) (http://webringamerica.com/4/pokerplayersalliance/viewtopic.php?t=1607). If you want more action from PPA, please vote on my poll. Thanks.

[Berge20]

The last discussion I had with the PPA on this matter was that they were going to stay out of this type of stuff.

FYI

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
The last discussion I had with the PPA on this matter was that they were going to stay out of this type of stuff.

FYI

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had some recent communications with them where they seem to be more receptive to the idea of having their members acting more actively. Perhaps they've started changing their minds since we starting having successes and have gotten noticed. /images/graemlins/grin.gif I'll PM you with more info.

Everyone: if we want the PPA to do more, we should ask them. If they won't, we should consider doing it ourselves, I think. We may be able to start a very small 527 or PAC, simply to have a legal structure. Through this, we could get small donations here and there from industry and from concerned citizens. I think the first step is to tell PPA what we want.

[ChrisAJ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The last discussion I had with the PPA on this matter was that they were going to stay out of this type of stuff.

FYI

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had some recent communications with them where they seem to be more receptive to the idea of having their members acting more actively. Perhaps they've started changing their minds since we starting having successes and have gotten noticed. /images/graemlins/grin.gif I'll PM you with more info.

Everyone: if we want the PPA to do more, we should ask them. If they won't, we should consider doing it ourselves, I think. We may be able to start a very small 527 or PAC, simply to have a legal structure. Through this, we could get small donations here and there from industry and from concerned citizens. I think the first step is to tell PPA what we want.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps I haven't been following this as closely as I should, but where is AGA on the issue? Anyone looked at their PAC structure and who they give money to?

[TehPokarKing]

Yeah I mean it should be clear from my earlier post that I'm definitely in w/ whatever we decide to do. I also agree that the ideal place for a PAC would, at this point, be under the auspices of the PPA. If that's not in the cards there should at least be a small one. We could certainly do this with some input from the PPA (although not too much input so it doesn't look like the PPA is effectively acting like a 527).

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The last discussion I had with the PPA on this matter was that they were going to stay out of this type of stuff.

FYI

[/ QUOTE ]I've had some recent communications with them where they seem to be more receptive to the idea of having their members acting more actively. Perhaps they've started changing their minds since we starting having successes and have gotten noticed. /images/graemlins/grin.gif I'll PM you with more info.

Everyone: if we want the PPA to do more, we should ask them. If they won't, we should consider doing it ourselves, I think. We may be able to start a very small 527 or PAC, simply to have a legal structure. Through this, we could get small donations here and there from industry and from concerned citizens. I think the first step is to tell PPA what we want.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps I haven't been following this as closely as I should, but where is AGA on the issue? Anyone looked at their PAC structure and who they give money to?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm not mistake, historically the AGA has not been friendly to online gaming. I could be wrong, though. Anyone have the latest scoop on them?

[PokeReader]

OK, in case anyone hasn't followed the previous stuff on this too closely let me just say who I am and what a 527's requirements are. I am a experienced federal Democratic political operative. I am willing to be as involved as I can in this will two limitations: one, if I am working on a campaign as I am now, I will not be able to be publicly involved, and in fact will have to maintain as low a profile as possible as I could be fired for working on an outside project like this; two, while working on a campaign I will not have much time. I cannot predict whether this job will last the whole season or not, if it doesn't I will give a month at least to helping this get off the ground, but may still need to be low profile.

A 527 does not need to file with the FEC, or any other election board. As per my post the other day, essentially the generally policy for such groups is to take advantage of the under 25K a year non-filing status, so they raise money until they hit they hi 25K, then this puts them in the significant change of status 30 day filing window, and then they file their organization form with the IRS. After that there are quarterly fundraising/expenditure reports, and more frequent reports around elections. I am not sure whether we would need an official place of business, as there is a rule requiring your organizational filing must be available for public inspection during business hours, but this seems to only apply if you have three full time workers. This was my quick reading, I admit I am very familar with the rules about PAC's,(a different thing), and 527's from a campaign point of view, but this stuff is not rocket science. The only thing you need to file along with the initial organizational filing is applying for an EIN, an employment ID number. The biggest rule with 527's is that you cannot coordinate with campaigns, and I know the ins and outs of this extensively, and you cannot put the words vote for or vote against in your voter communications. You used to have a window you could not buy ads in, but this was just struck down by the court.

We could also create a 501(c)(4) organization, which is a political arm of a social welfare organization or club. This has the advantage that the donor list is still private. C4's are primarily involved in lobbying, and secondarily involved in partisan electoral work. This would allow us to have money to contribute during the year to back the PPA's lobbying efforts, and to spend on some DC media, and other typical elements of lobbying campaigns that they are not using right now if we wanted to. We would also be able to count some of our contributions under lobbying. You can also set up, (I believe I mentioned this), a segregated account in junction with the 501 (c)(4), as a 527, and this would allow that account, whose donors would be limited, (but not as limited as a PAC), and disclosed, to primarily focus on electortial work. We would need to file an article of non-profit incorporation in some state with reasonable laws, then apply for a local tax exemption and an EIN, I know this sounds like alot, but it is a one time thing. In general, the election filings are the regular crunch issue. We definitely will need to consult a election attorney in any case. I think this may be the best structure, allowing the greatest functional freedom, while still allowing donor privacy to some extent and will no doubt create the greatest scope for fundraising, having a vehicle with no limits and no donor disclosure. This is the structure of the most powerful groups in DC, like MoveOn, AARP, NRA, and Christian Coalition. Some groups have 501 (c)(3), which applies to charitable groups, and allows the tax deductiblitiy of contributions, then sandwich on a 501(c)(4), and maybe a 527. Frankly, I think the chance the IRS would give us a C3 is nil, and that may be getting a little complicated for us to start with, but be aware it is not possible to change your structure once you set it in most ways. A consult with good federal elections lawyer will help with this, so we can know what we will have the option to do later and what we won't , but basically, a 527 stand alone is much simpler, but can't later be amended to add the C4.

As far as the PPA, I want don't to discuss my conversation with them too much, (this was a while ago, and hopefully they have improved), but they were focused just on lobbing. The PPA list to them seemed mostly so they could say we have X members, and not have a plan to use it effectively as a grassroots force at that time. They were thinking about using it later down the line, but the longer they wait without using it, the worse the list is getting. The people I talked were not the brightest, it's not by having so many names on a list, it's by having names on a list that will donate, call people, write letters, and vote. Until you show them that, they don't fear/respect you. So I vote we just do it, unless the PPA is ready to go guns blazing right now, (and do you really believe they will do this right?). The more time that passes since UIGEA, the more difficult it will be to get players involved. Right afterwards, everyone was on Leg., and would have happily donated to this if it had existed, which is why I pushed it to PPA and the sites and pros to have a summit and make a coordinated plan to combat this. I think we can't afford to lose more time. Every time DOJ does something like Neteller, that is a chunk of donations to this effort going out the door because it doesn't exist yet. So what we need:

1. A Treasurer, and it would be really preferably this person will decide to be responsible for filling out the tax forms, as they will be responsible for how they are filled out, but if they trust the person doing it, that's alright with me. It would be better if this person would be a lawyer/accountant with a good amount of free time around the next election. There are computer programs to fill the forms in available.

2. A President, this person will not need to do work, and more than anything else should be respectable, and hopefully well known, but I'll take the former if that's all we can get.

3. All of the groups have a board listed: These people don't need to do work, again ideally we would like respectable noteworthy people that will give the organization credibility.

4. We have someone who volunteered to do fundraising, but this will be a key activity. Ideally fundraisers are people that know alot of people, are well-liked, maintain good relationships. If you have a giant friend list online, you might be a good potential fundraiser, if you know how to close.

5. A webmaster, the group's website will be key for all kinds of grassroots activity from fundraising to organizing, to recruiting new people. Someone who is experienced in designing and hosting websites would be ideal.

6. Organizers, we will need people in different states, and districts to organize the groups of people we recruit into a political force. Ideally these are people who are organized, really positive and gung-ho, like people, and are good motivators.

7. Press, we will need some people who are good writers to work on letters, press release, position papers and material for the website. This is good for anyone who is a good writer and can write within constraints within a deadline. We will also need people who can present themselves well to do local press ops, and to be part of national lobbying blitzes.

8. Research, we will need someone researching what the opposition is saying so we can respond, and use it for fundraising. We will also want to be sure that the organization and our website is always up to date on developments on the war on poker. This is a job for someone who is computer savy, and can write reasonably well.

There are more jobs that will come up closer to election time, but these seem like the most immediate ones to me. I will time to spend some time researching not for profit and grassroots organizing, and talk to some of my friends that do this. There are two links about 527's and 501 (c)(4)'s, and two that are non-profit grassroot resources, with information on organizing, lobbying and the like. If you are willing to work on any of these things, please post, online poker needs you now!

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopici02.pdf
http://www.hurwitassociates.com/l_lobby_primer.html
http://www.npaction.org/article/archive/228
http://www.idealist.org/if/idealist/en/FAQ/Nonprofit/Home/default?sid=100220679-110-oqa

[PokeReader]

I'm pathetically going to post over my own, ouch. I just want to see if anymore people were interested in doing something with this, but were busy with the WSOP, and so didn't see it. That what I'm hoping, anyway.

[Legislurker]

I would like to, but I have to be making money right now, and committed to some local things. It may change as the year ends. I'm not respectable or noteworthy, but I can research and write.

[tangled]

Something just occurred to me concerning funding for this possible group. People who have money locked up in neteller are also the people who are po'd enough to contribute to this group. At any time we all could get that windfall of money if neteller pays up. (I know a big IF, but it could happen). We will be missing a golden oppurtunity to collect some funding if this group is not up and running by then.

We need a game plan. It can change as needed, but we need something to start off with.

Since nobody has the time and/or the expertise to do the heavy start-up lifting, should we start a committee of people who can work on it some?

[Legislurker]

If we get an org started, can we start hitting 2p2 up for micro donations to get it started?

[TehPokarKing]

Yeah I'm up for doing some research as well. I've had a sort of family situation taking up some of my time recently but it's pretty much in order now. Let me know what I can do and when we can get things off the ground.

[MiltonFriedman]

Organizations do not spring up spontaneously. Once created, they need to maintain themselves.

For example, in the Poker arena, the PPA was a vague idea which was nurtured and maintained because of outside support from Party and others.

As an organization shows its potential to serve myraid purposes, it becomes subject to influence and manipulation from motivated persons. It is likely that the PPA has evolved, to the point it has been coopted by the Washington entities with a goal of securing fees and income. Hence the "NRA model" ... a money machine of a million members, paying for lobbying contracts.

(There is a big difference between using a "cause" for raising money from someone and representing that someone's interests.)

I would recommend Mancur Olsen, The Logic of Collective Action, to explain why the proposed fledgling Internet Poker PAC will never fly.

Milton

[PokeReader]

The problem though Milton, is that the PPA is very far from the NRA. They are not using their members at all. They are not involved in political action and elections at all, just lobbying and public relations. If they would like to take on this role, I would be more than happy to cede it to them, but at this point there is a good deal of interest, enthusiasism, and money which is not being used for this fight. I feel someone, as shown by the focus of Engineer's threads, needs to carry the organization focus of electoral action for us to have the best chance of repealing this legislation.

It is difficult buidling every political organization nearly from scratch, but it is done all the time. More than anything, it takes dedication and a cause. While I must say that compared to the people I generally work with in politics, poker players seem highly adverse to organizing, I think it is untrue they would somehow be unable to meet to reasonable goals for fundraising and organizing now that something important to them has been threatened by the political process. They may be more difficult to work with at first, as most have not done any organized political activity, but everyone is capable of political action in the right circumstance.

[Legislurker]

We could always pitch poker lobbying to Soros as a way ot ensure the Republicans stay in the minority, then hire enough lobbyists to make it work. As for the PPA, I wish we had a clue what they are up to, I think they are doing something, whether its in our interest or not, is questionable.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
We could always pitch poker lobbying to Soros as a way ot ensure the Republicans stay in the minority, then hire enough lobbyists to make it work. As for the PPA, I wish we had a clue what they are up to, I think they are doing something, whether its in our interest or not, is questionable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone: we're members of PPA. They have to follow the wishes of their membership. If you don't like their current inaction relative to using their members, tell them. Post to their message board. Send them email. Let them know.

[tangled]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We could always pitch poker lobbying to Soros as a way ot ensure the Republicans stay in the minority, then hire enough lobbyists to make it work. As for the PPA, I wish we had a clue what they are up to, I think they are doing something, whether its in our interest or not, is questionable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone: we're members of PPA. They have to follow the wishes of their membership. If you don't like their current inaction relative to using their members, tell them. Post to their message board. Send them email. Let them know.

[/ QUOTE ]


I really hate to disagree with you and i hate to sidetrack this thread, but I, too, don't think that the PPA has any intention of doing this kind of stuff. I think the PPA is just an arm of Party Poker and the poker player membership is just there to provide cover for that (in my mind) fact.

For some reason the PPA wants to play nice and schmooze legislation in with good ole-boy pats on the back. I'm guessing it is because they are afraid Party might not get licensed if regulation does come if they tee too many congressmen off.

I think there is a time to be nice, but first you have to be ready to get mean and poke some people in the eye. Nobody ever gets rights just given to them. You have to be willing to fight and upset people. Once you get their respect, then it is time for the good cop to send the bad cop off for a cup of coffee while the good cop compromises into a deal.

(Btw, I am not saying you are not a fighter. You definitely are.)

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
I really hate to disagree with you and i hate to sidetrack this thread, but I, too, don't think that the PPA has any intention of doing this kind of stuff. I think the PPA is just an arm of Party Poker and the poker player membership is just there to provide cover for that (in my mind) fact.

For some reason the PPA wants to play nice and schmooze legislation in with good ole-boy pats on the back. I'm guessing it is because they are afraid Party might not get licensed if regulation does come if they tee too many congressmen off.

I think there is a time to be nice, but first you have to be ready to get mean and poke some people in the eye. Nobody ever gets rights just given to them. You have to be willing to fight and upset people. Once you get their respect, then it is time for the good cop to send the bad cop off for a cup of coffee while the good cop compromises into a deal.

(Btw, I am not saying you are not a fighter. You definitely are.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think we disagree at all. As for your comments, I think that's exactly why we need to tell PPA where we stand as members. Seems it's better to complain than to remain silent, right, regardless of their intentions? Even if they are a Party hack, they can still send regular email updates to their members, encouraging us to do something.