** Event 48: $1,000 Limit 2 to 7 Triple Draw Lowball w/Rebuys **

[entertainme]

Um. I have no idea how you would play this game. Is that bad? Sklansky in this one? I think I've seen TT post he likes this game? Any 2p2er's playing? 5 pm start today.

[Jourdain]

Day 1 has come to and end. About 100 players left out of 209 entrants with 546 rebuys.

The prize pool is $721,804. 24th place pays $5,414 and first place is $227,005

Top 10 chip counts:
Jon Shoreman 69,800
Rafi Amit 48,500
Anthony Lellouche 41,600
Eugene Ji 35,200
Ben Armstrong 34,300
Christopher Lamell 32,800
Victor Ramdin 32,400
Michael Binger 30,700
Brian Haveson 30,700
Chad Joseph Brown 29,900

http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/tourney/event.asp?tourneyID=3475&groupid=309

[jively]

[ QUOTE ]
Um. I have no idea how you would play this game. Is that bad? Sklansky in this one? I think I've seen TT post he likes this game? Any 2p2er's playing? 5 pm start today.

[/ QUOTE ]
Here are the rules. (http://www.gamesgrid.com/poker/rules_27triplelo.html)

-Tom

[mr giles]

I took a single bullet to this game, trip report in B&M shortly.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Um. I have no idea how you would play this game. Is that bad? Sklansky in this one? I think I've seen TT post he likes this game? Any 2p2er's playing? 5 pm start today.

[/ QUOTE ]

InWithTheBest and groth (active 2-7 strategy poster in the Other Poker forums) are both in the event along with Newhizzle, Brad L, Sklansky, Bill Chen, BugStud, and a few others. Brad and BugStud have big enough stacks that they have a lot of play left (around 16-19 big bets on the next round), David Sklanksy was hanging on by the short hairs when I left yesterday but has managed to survive with 5.4k chips - 4.5 big bets, which is not a lot for a game with 4 betting rounds, probably not enough to stage a comeback. Brad L and BugStud are at the same table along with Steve Z, Howard Lederer, and two other regular 2-7 players whose names escape me at the moment, they might have been at the toughest table in the field since Steve and Howard are two of the founding fathers of this game as well as Chinese Poker (it was spread at the Mayfair in NYC where they both started playing poker), Howard used to be regarded as one of the worlds best 2-7 TD players. The most feared player in the field was probably Billy Baxter, but he busted out early.

Victor Ramadin is one of the chip leaders which I find comical because when i was watching him play yesterday he was absolutely horrible - he just luckboxed his way up the top. Overall the play has been a mix of horrifically passive (see the Helmuth/Cunningham hand below), and stupid agressive such as a hand I watched while sweating Sklansky's table. 400lb guy is pat leading into the third round in position, guy out of position draws one card and bets the river. 400lb guy raises, river better hems and haws then calls. 400lb guy has 87624 and wins! For those of you who don't know 2-7, 87624 is the 15th best hand - nobody in their right mind would raise here, and nobody in their right mind would call a raise on the river with a hand worse than that!

The Phil Helmuth / Alan Cunningham hand was equally as comical. Helmuth is in position and open-raises, Cunningham calls in the big blind - They both draw 2. Alan checks, Phil bets, Alan calls. They both draw one and Phil makes a wise ass comment about Alan drawing the an 8. The next round goes check/check, Alan draws one and Phil draws 1 while turning over the 9 saying "I only draw clean, next round I will keep the 9 if I get it". At this point Phil practically announced to the table that he held 2387x, 2487x, 2587x, or 2687x, Alan draws one completely oblivious to the disclosure of Phil's hand. Alan checks, and Phil checks behind - Alan draws one card, and Phil is Pat - this means Phil has caught exactly a T or a J because he is too spineless to be here and he is announcing his hand to Cunningham who is still oblivious to it all. On the final draw Cunningham catches a Jack and misses the best oportunity in the world to bluff the pot knowing that there is no way in hell Phil Helmuth can call with his J87623. The two turn over their hands and Phil Wins! The hand was a perfect example of the blind leading the blind... very funny.



As for me, I decided I didn't want to play at the very last second. I played the 2-7 lead up event at Binion's the day before and I realized that without a 7k minimum investment (rebuys) I didn't stand a chance in this tournament - something my bankroll cannot absorb at this time.

[*TT*]

Some gripes:

1) The payout structure sucks! Most players have spent in the 6k to 8k range in this field, but payouts start at 5,414 - below what the average total buyin for the finalists will be! Average rebuys should be considered in this calculation, I'd rather see WSOP management drop off 21-24th place and increase the prize pool across the board proportionally.

2) Reporting is incorrect, the next round is 600/1200 starting at 4pm.

3) Its interesting that the biggest online specialists such as Groth, InWithTheBest, and Chris Fargis all have around T12,000- right in the middle of the field. This must be more than a coincidence, there must be something about the TAG style thats similar. Daniel Negranu - the guy who helped us all learn how to play is at T17,000 - just a tad bit ahead of "our boys".

4) At this point I think the best strategy adjustment is for the cash game specialists to adjust to a slightly loose passive approach, welcoming multi-way pots in hopes that they win huge. This is of course contrary to TOP thinking, but a good way to ammass a huge amount of chips my risking a small amount.

[*TT*]

I just got word that Negranu is in for 9k. Devon Miller is in for 8k (mostly because Negranu was lagging it up), Brad L is in for 4k. Of course Brad L has a bigger chip lead /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Ghazban]

I've never heard of a rebuy limit event... is this common for TD 2-7 tournaments?

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
I've never heard of a rebuy limit event... is this common for TD 2-7 tournaments?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ive never heard of that either. I spoke to Daniel Negranu about it because I thought it was asinine, he said he was one who lobbied for it. They wanted to keep the buy-in low and increase the field, but give the pros an edge because they could afford a bigger risk compared to the 2-7 specialists you find online. if i knew Daniel I would have told him something not so nice, but it was pointless at the time - its obvious his intentions were to make a good situation for himself, not the field or the WSOP itself. One thing is for sure, it wont be a two day event as scheduled.

[NicksDad1970]

Is this the one Admo should be sweating a lil more than the others?

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this the one Admo should be sweating a lil more than the others?

[/ QUOTE ]

????

[Kevmath]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is this the one Admo should be sweating a lil more than the others?

[/ QUOTE ]

????

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
They wanted to keep the buy-in low and increase the field, but give the pros an edge because they could afford a bigger risk compared to the 2-7 specialists you find online. if i knew Daniel I would have told him something not so nice, but it was pointless at the time - its obvious his intentions were to make a good situation for himself, not the field or the WSOP itself

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume the poster thought your comment meant that Daniel had created an event to get himself a bracelet.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is this the one Admo should be sweating a lil more than the others?

[/ QUOTE ]

????

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
They wanted to keep the buy-in low and increase the field, but give the pros an edge because they could afford a bigger risk compared to the 2-7 specialists you find online. if i knew Daniel I would have told him something not so nice, but it was pointless at the time - its obvious his intentions were to make a good situation for himself, not the field or the WSOP itself

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume the poster thought your comment meant that Daniel had created an event to get himself a bracelet.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, i forgot about that. And yes, thats what i believe he was thinking in a roudabout way.

Update - Brad L is busto, 3 hands in a row he drew 1 card to a 7 and paired.

[NicksDad1970]

I just meant that I thought DN said this was one of his best games. With the smaller field I just thought it gave him a better chance at it.

But I don't get the feeling Admo sweats too much of anything.

[Admo]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this the one Admo should be sweating a lil more than the others?

[/ QUOTE ]

Was/am most concerned about this event, the NLHE rebuy events, and event 54 ($5k NL 2-7 Draw Rebuy)

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
I just meant that I thought DN said this was one of his best games. With the smaller field I just thought it gave him a better chance at it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can assure you that was not how I perceived it, I am leaving out details because I'm not trying to make this into a bash Daniel post, but the important thing is he insinuated that the structure was designed this way to give himself an edge.

[Kevmath]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is this the one Admo should be sweating a lil more than the others?

[/ QUOTE ]

Was/am most concerned about this event, the NLHE rebuy events, and event 54 ($5k NL 2-7 Draw Rebuy)

[/ QUOTE ]

No need to worry about this one anymore, he's been eliminated.

[NickMPK]

[ QUOTE ]

1) The payout structure sucks! Most players have spent in the 6k to 8k range in this field, but payouts start at 5,414 - below what the average total buyin for the finalists will be! Average rebuys should be considered in this calculation, I'd rather see WSOP management drop off 21-24th place and increase the prize pool across the board proportionally.


[/ QUOTE ]

There were 209 entries and a prize pool $721,804, which is an average buy-in of $3,453.60, plus whatever went into the rake. The min pay-out is thus about 1.5x the buy-in, which seems pretty standard.

[AllinDan]

go devon and bugstud!

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

1) The payout structure sucks! Most players have spent in the 6k to 8k range in this field, but payouts start at 5,414 - below what the average total buyin for the finalists will be! Average rebuys should be considered in this calculation, I'd rather see WSOP management drop off 21-24th place and increase the prize pool across the board proportionally.


[/ QUOTE ]

There were 209 entries and a prize pool $721,804, which is an average buy-in of $3,453.60, plus whatever went into the rake. The min pay-out is thus about 1.5x the buy-in, which seems pretty standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. Anecdotal evidence seemed to show that most players were in for 5k or more.

[*TT*]

Update: Matt Wasko aka JewFro on UB has 10 bets left with 30k. 30 players left in the field.

Jamison Painter (BugStud) has T38,000.

Devon Miller has T68,000

Chip leader Eugene Ji has T187,000. Anyone know who he is?

[adios]

If cardplayer is right I saw that Danny Fuhs is leading this tournament. Played many hours with Danny back in the day. Good to see he's doing well in this tournament and poker in general.

[beset]

Go bugstud!@@!#222111

[bugstud]

expletive 20th expletive

basically, with 26 left the shortstack got allin twice and made a wheel and so I went from 50k to 30k basically without having a chance.

then 54322 bricked 3x vs ferguson's 86(7)43? a rough 1 card draw.

Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
expletive 20th expletive

basically, with 26 left the shortstack got allin twice and made a wheel and so I went from 50k to 30k basically without having a chance.

then 54322 bricked 3x vs ferguson's 86(7)43? a rough 1 card draw.

Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[/ QUOTE ]

bad news -

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2817841
pokenum -l27 2d 3d 4s 5h - 8s 6s 4h 3h
5-card Draw 2-7 Lowball: 1892 enumerated outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
4s 3d 2d 5h 933 49.31 959 50.69 0 0.00 0.493
8s 6s 4h 3h 959 50.69 933 49.31 0 0.00 0.507 </pre><hr />

No sweat, most people over-value 2345. The code above is for a singe draw and doesn't factor dead cards of course and I assumed suits arent a factor in the hand, but its kind of shocking to see.

[DCJ311]

[ QUOTE ]

No sweat, most people over-value 2345. The code above is for a singe draw and doesn't factor dead cards of course and I assumed suits arent a factor in the hand, but its kind of shocking to see.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 3 draws definitely makes a difference.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

No sweat, most people over-value 2345. The code above is for a singe draw and doesn't factor dead cards of course and I assumed suits arent a factor in the hand, but its kind of shocking to see.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 3 draws definitely makes a difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oddly its barely a blip. lets say BugStud had 23459, the only pat hand he could make that would lose to villain's range of 3468. Villain is 1:4 favorite over three draws, and becomes a 1.44:1 dog with one draw remaining. Interesting isnt it? Of course Villain has zero outs if hero hits a 7 or an 8, but he has 10 outs if hero hits a 9. Conversely Villain has 3.64 weighted outs vs Bugstud if the hero hits a pat hand catching a 7,8 or 9, and is 5.24:1 against improving with 2 draws remaining.

four 6's kill the hero's hand, four 7's and three 8's help him win.

Villain needs one of three duces, three 5s or 4 sevens.

The hands are remarkably close in equity in a HU scenario.

[bugstud]

yeah, with like 16.5k at 3k/6k limit I imagine 22345 looks like a pat wheel in comparison.