50nl - Easier ?s today, let's talk PFR after TAG limpers

[wildzer0]

Like many players here, I almost never limp (def never open limp). But I see a lot of TAGS open limping from UTG, UTG+1. So my question is, given reasonable tag stats, say 20/16/2, what is your raising range in the CO or button for an early position TAG limper.

ie:

UTG: 100bb
Hero (button) 100bb

Hero is dealt XX

UTG calls 1bb, UTG+1 folds, CO folds, Hero...

What factors influence the hands you're raising here. Are you ever limping? What is your general range?

[C4LL4W4Y]

Pretty much everything I would have raised, outside of really low SC's, K8s hands, Q8s, and other random garbage that I open on the button.

[infinite_loop]

I love to punish limpers, especially TAG ones. If I don't get pre-flop folds, I get decent pots against weaker players in position usually. The TAGs rarely call anyway. I prefer taking down lots of small pots, so this is definitely something I do a lot until I see adjustments.

A8s+, A8o+, KTs+, KJo+, Q9s+, QTo+, JTs, JTo, T9s, 22+

[Quester]

To me, the biggest factor to consider when a TAG limps is how often he folds to continuation bets on the flop. His preflop behavior is a dead giveaway of the type of hand he is playing in most circumstances. We can take it down on many flops.

I'm not likely limping behind. I'll tighten up if I don't have much postflop information on him.

[infinite_loop]

The EP limps from TAGs are almost always pocket pairs and I guess some decent SCs. I like to punish enough that they aren't going to call pre-flop enough to make the limp profitable. If they call a lot, then they're probably not TAGs. When flop comes down, if they have a pocket pair they'll fold to most c-bets. But I haven't had a lot of experience with those limping SCs when they get a board that coordinates, so I'd be curious to see what people have to say about that.

[Chomp]

Everything I would have raised anyway.

For me, a limp in EP from a decent TAG is with the lower end (or, most marginal part) of their standard MP/LP opening range: small/medium pocket pair, marginal (probably) suited Aces, and occasionally SC's/random trappy hands.

If this is indeed the case, then all the reasons we open in LP in the first place are still applicable: we raise for initiative, because we can use position to steal post, for value with our big hands, because villain(s) will miss most of the time, and for a thousand other reasons too probably.

Considering any conceivable TAG's EP limping range, none of those reasons become less appropriate.

Fwiw, I limped three times UTG I can remember today in 2000 hands: ATs, 78s, JTo. That's exactly the kind of crap I'd expect any TAG UTG limp to be. So raise it up with any old rubbish. Oh, and of course Hee-haw-hee-haw/choo-chooo/gurgle gurgle gurgle.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
I love to punish limpers, especially TAG ones. If I don't get pre-flop folds, I get decent pots against weaker players in position usually. The TAGs rarely call anyway. I prefer taking down lots of small pots, so this is definitely something I do a lot until I see adjustments.

A8s+, A8o+, KTs+, KJo+, Q9s+, QTo+, JTs, JTo, T9s, 22+

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, if the TAG has a low PP (the most obvious open-limping hand), then the "punishment" (getting raised by the range you list) isn't really that bad. Well, so long as he isn't simply check-folding otherwise favorable flops just because he missed his set.

[wildzer0]

[ QUOTE ]
Everything I would have raised anyway.

For me, a limp in EP from a decent TAG is with the lower end (or, most marginal part) of their standard MP/LP opening range: small/medium pocket pair, marginal (probably) suited Aces, and occasionally SC's/random trappy hands.

If this is indeed the case, then all the reasons we open in LP in the first place are still applicable: we raise for initiative, because we can use position to steal post, for value with our big hands, because villain(s) will miss most of the time, and for a thousand other reasons too probably.

Considering any conceivable TAG's EP limping range, none of those reasons become less appropriate.

Fwiw, I limped three times UTG I can remember today in 2000 hands: ATs, 78s, JTo. That's exactly the kind of crap I'd expect any TAG UTG limp to be. So raise it up with any old rubbish. Oh, and of course Hee-haw-hee-haw/choo-chooo/gurgle gurgle gurgle.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice post. I think I get a little confused when players with the same stats as me open limp.