LC: Playing Sets

[relativity_x]

I've been wondering what's the best way to extract/protect sets at 25 & 50 NL. I've had some situations where I feel I've lost some value by playing too fast on flop/turn. I want to give a few examples, and see how everyone goes about it. For the examples, assume all players have full stacks and you're new to the table with all unknowns.

1) Hero dealt 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif in BB

Preflop: <font color="brown">UTG raises .75</font>, UTG+1 calls .75, <font color="gray">CO folds</font>, BTN calls 0.75,<font color="gray"> SB folds</font>, Hero calls 0.5

Flop (3.10): J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero ????

================================================== =====

2)Hero is dealt 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif in SB

Preflop: <font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, <font color="brown">UTG+1 raises to 0.75</font>, <font color="gray">2 folds</font>, Hero calls 0.65, BB calls 0.5.

Flop(2.25): J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Hero checks, BB bets 1.25, UTG+1 raises to 3.5, Hero calls 3.5, BB calls 2.25

Turn (12.75): 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Hero ????

================================================== ======

3)Hero dealt T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif on BTN

Preflop: <font color="brown">UTG raises 1.00</font>, <font color="gray">2 folds</font>, Hero calls 1.00, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>, BB calls 0.75

Flop(3.10): K /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB checks, <font color="brown">UTG bets 2.00</font>, Hero ????

================================================== =======

4) Hero dealt 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif on BTN

Preflop: <font color="brown">UTG raises 1.00</font>, <font color="gray">2 folds</font>, Hero calls 1.00, <font color="gray">2 folds</font>

Flop(2.35): A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

<font color="brown">UTG bets 1.75</font>, Hero calls 1.75

Turn(5.85): A /images/graemlins/heart.gif

UTG checks, Hero ???


Okay, I think these are four good examples on when to protect/extract. If you guys have any other examples/philosophy on how to play sets, I'd like to hear them.

[greggg230]

1) Leading out here for sure. With 4 people in the pot and the PFR in UTG, there's a great chance that it'll check around if you check. You can't let a 9, T, or heart roll off on the turn.

2) I'm 3-betting on that flop. The earlier I can get my money in with a set, the better, and UTG+1 looks like he's willing to play. Flat calling isn't bad, though, since it's not a drawy board. CR on the turn sounds good.

3) Raise. Can't let another broadway card or heart roll off. Also, you can expect a lot of action from the PFR here, who may have hit TPTK or TP2P.

4) I like smooth calling to make the guy who probably has an ace feel confident. Definitely bet the turn. If he doesn't have an ace, you're not going to get any money out of him anyway; if he does, you're going to get a lot.

[tms]

There are a lot of posts already about this. Summary: In position raise his cbet. OOP donk/3bet. Mix in some check raises here and there if you have history with villain. If villain is super aggro and board is dry let him trap himself.

[tms]

hand 1: donk/3bet, try and get the money in.
hand 2: Raise flop. As played check raise the turn.
hand 3: 3bet pf. Raise flop.
hand 4: call is fine on flop, so is a raise. As played you have to bet the turn, the pot is small.

[relativity_x]

why do you raise flop on hand 2? You're pricing the BB by calling.

[corsakh]

1) Easy c/r. You have the best relative position. With a set you want to trap in as much dead money as possible. If you bet out, your bet looks very strong and it is likely to fold everyone out. So wait for UTG to cbet or someone in LP to take a stab. Its also very likely that after the UTG cbets someone will raise him and then feel obliged to call your 3bet.

2) This is a reversed situation. Donk in.

3) Raise.

4) Raise.

[C4LL4W4Y]

1. C/R
2. Meh I usually lead out...flop is pretty dry so if you CR, it's likely to more worse hands than leading out.
3. Easy raise.
4. I usually raise because if he has an A, he's probably paying you off. If you call, he's probably going to shut down on the turn and you've just turned your set into float play. If he's an aggro monkey though, I like a call.

[ama0330]

Basically you should always bet. I'm being non-specific but it goes without saying that the money wont get in the pot if you dont put it there. In addition, usually if your opponent folds, he was always going to fold so you dont need to worry about slowplaying too much.

ie. in hand one I would bet this every time. cr is really, really bad to me because a jack wont fold a donkbet and you just give FOUR players the chance to check behind and catch 4x collective outs on you. if everyone checks around, you will almost never win a big pot unless someone catches something to improve and possibly beat you.

[ReptileHouse]

In general, I fastplay sets. There are rare occasions where I won't, but they are opponent and hand specific type stuff.

My motivation is that when I have a set, I am more interested in winning a huge pot from a good second best hand than I am in getting a marginal amount more value from a bad second best hand. That is, by slow-playing I can extract (sometimes) a little bit more value from a hand like 2nd pair, but by so doing, I'm keeping the pot small the times when villain has something like TPTK and would pay off bigger bets. By fastplaying, people do fold more against me, but I believe my long-term profits are higher because I'm winning bigger pots when I do get called. A few huge pots compared to a larger number of smallish pots.

When you flop a set, figure out the part of villain's range that will pay off with his stack as long as he doesn't get too scared and plan the hand around a line that will extract from that range.