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Panic__NL
06-27-2007, 03:01 AM
Villian is an unknown, just joined the table.
What is our action on flop turn en river and especially WHY?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $58.90
CO: $62.20
Button: $8.50
SB: $53.40
Hero: $50

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $1.75</font>, 3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $5.5</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($11.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

Turn: 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($11.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

River: 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($11.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $7</font>, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $25.25

losingdonkey
06-27-2007, 03:09 AM
against an unknown bet the flop. checking may have merit against some one agressive but you have to know for sure. His check behind shows that he's probably not interested, you should definitely lead the turn. As played bet the river atleast come on.

Panic__NL
06-27-2007, 03:11 AM
what hand is going to call me?

Genz
06-27-2007, 03:13 AM
Argh. Your first instinct with such a big hand should always be: BET IT! I can understand that you are hesitant to do that on the flop. So that check isn't bad since the board is very dry. But bet that turn. And bet that river. If he has TT or whatever, he will fold anyway unless he is a calling-station and he will check if he is not. You can't try to induce a bluff on three consecutive streets. Maybe on the turn, yeah, but then bet that river to get some money out of him.
You are oop, you need to play this more straightforward.
At least minraise the river to make it look like a steal.

Genz
06-27-2007, 03:15 AM
[ QUOTE ]
what hand is going to call me?

[/ QUOTE ]
AQ, AJ, ATs, KQ, often even smaller PPs will take one card off here. But I approve of the flop check. But then you have to get the betting going.

Panic__NL
06-27-2007, 03:17 AM
hmm ok, was a few days in a discussion, that was a little different, instead of the guy with AK 3betting, Villian 3bet and Hero calls the 3bet with AK, same flop, do we bet on that flop, suppose Villian is no retard and his 3bet range is pretty standard.

Panic__NL
06-27-2007, 03:19 AM
@Genz, I can see him calling a 3bet with those hands, but why would he call, what is he beating then, except a bluff with QQ/JJ by me.

losingdonkey
06-27-2007, 03:20 AM
[ QUOTE ]
@Genz, I can see him calling a 3bet with those hands, but why would he call, what is he beating then, except a bluff with QQ/JJ by me.

[/ QUOTE ]

to give you money? letting him catch up is not the +EV move here I don't think.

Panic__NL
06-27-2007, 03:23 AM
if he has a pair he has 2 outs, the chance of outdrawing me then is probably smaller than him bluffing.
if he catches up with something like AQ, he is going to be stacked.

BevillTheDevil
06-27-2007, 03:26 AM
i bet all 3 streets b/c we have top 2, are most likely ahead, wanta build a pot, we are OOP, and wanta get AI. I dont hate a check on the flop but if i took that line id bet the turn. And then check the river??? WHY??

Genz
06-27-2007, 03:26 AM
As I said: I don't mind the flop check, esp. because it looks like a scared QQ and might induce a bet. But after that, you are going too far, IMO. Villain is an unknown, so why do you expect him to start bluffing you at some point? When you bet, you give him a chance to donate by calling and by raising you (if he is a lagtard). If you check, you only give him a chance to donate by bluffing you. And if he has nothing, he will probably shut down either way. So bet.

Genz
06-27-2007, 03:28 AM
And btw: even if you only bet a weak-looking half pot on every street, you'll be ai by the river. That's the beauty of hitting big in reraised pots. But still, check flop to make him feel safer is ok, imo.

Panic__NL
06-27-2007, 03:29 AM
Maybe I am giving Villian too much respect as usual, I just cant see him call with a worse hand on this board. So betting has no point, maybe he will call with stuff like AQ, but I couldnot imagine when i played the hand.

Lurker.
06-27-2007, 03:38 AM
Xpert slowplay

CaseS87
06-27-2007, 03:39 AM
Get all in as soon as possible.

Genz
06-27-2007, 03:40 AM
If you bet, you at least tried. That's better than hoping that villain will start bluffing you at some point on a board that probably looks pretty scary to him. You need to give him at least a chance to make a mistake. Allowing him to check it down and see a SD for free is bad. Many people will call you with any A or K here putting you on QQ because that's what they want you to have.
Save the tricky, bluff inducing play for those hands where you are in position and only need to check once to know if you managed to induce a bluff instead of twice and wasting one whole street of possible value.

Panic__NL
06-27-2007, 03:50 AM
Thanks for your input Genz