Big draw, tough spot against two terrible opponents

[stunna954]

CO is 38/28/1.8
UTG is 40/15/1.9

I would happily push in against CO but UTGs cold call scares me. He's likely on a better flush draw and I have no idea if I can get him to lay it down. What's my optimal line here?

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $46.80
BB: $47.20
UTG: $50.05
MP: $24.75
CO: $66.55
Hero (BTN): $110.30

Preflop: Hero is dealt T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 Players)
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, <font color="red">CO raises to $2.00</font>, Hero calls $2.00, SB folds, BB calls $1.50, UTG calls $1.50, MP calls $1.50

Flop: ($10.25) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 Players)
BB folds, UTG checks, MP checks, <font color="red">CO bets $2.50</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $10.00</font>, UTG calls $10.00, MP folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $17.50</font>, <font color="red">Hero ????

[fees]

uh given hes so passive this is often a set.. call and try to get a cheap river if we dont get there on the turn.. but the turn is basically a math problem

[C4LL4W4Y]

Shove time.

[ImprovinNewbie]

i think its probably a flip or you are up against a set and a little behind. (a flip like your straight and flsuh draw v. a big pair) 3 ways you are likely a little behind. my guess is get it in and hope but if they are so bad you might want to fold and hope to get your money in in a more solid position.

[Reef]

push and pray , hopefully fold out any naked higher flush draw

[whyherro]

push and hope one of the villains is waaay behind the other.

[goat_beard]

Ugh, fold preflop. As played I think its weak but you could always call the small raise and shove a good card, try to see a river cheap, shove a good card there, or toss it when u miss.

[stunna954]

[ QUOTE ]
Ugh, fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? I have the button, I know the two cold callers are calling. And my hand plays well in multiway flops.

[maccamack]

I think call and hope to god you get an offsuit six.... I would normally advocate a push but given you don't know if UTG can fold I think calling is the cheaper option.

[goat_beard]

suited one gappers are not a hand i would play after two limps and a raise, if u wanna play a hand like that i would recommend a pattern like one limp a raise and a call of the raise, since you dont wanna get HU with a hand that "plays well in multiway flops" which i still dont think 108dd does.

[thawannabe]

I think you should push, if you call and the UTG has a higher flush draw and will likely call for 7.50 more. If you push he may fold a higher draw. I doubt CO is folding he most likely has a set.

On the other hand, if you think UTG has a higher flush draw you may want to consider calling in this spot. If he does fold to the push hes is folding some of your outs and you have very small fold equity against the CO (if he has a set) so going with that read i dont think a push would +EV. At least a call gives you a cheap turn because UTG is being passive. Any thoughts on this?

[TheSalche]

Moot point, but I agree with folding preflop here. However, if CO folded preflop then that's a great spot to raise on the button.

The problem with this spot is the CO. You've got about 12 outs vs. UTG heads-up, 15 outs heads-up against CO and 6 outs vs. both. CO is NOT folding, he's got a set/top two/overpair. Another issue is that CO is 130 BBs deep. You can't fold on this flop, you're getting pot odds to draw to your straight on the turn.

My plan here: call the flop, raise allin on a non-diamond turn/straight turn. If a diamond comes then UTG's action matters, he's likely to check if its non-diamond

[monkover]

I don´t think pushin is good here. we have no fe. see a turn and reevaluate

[Spurious]

I dont know but this dude must have a set. Given his line, he just wants to have money in the pot...
He bets 1/4 of the pot on the flop, he min-raises you. I doubt its a flush draw or anything else.
Why not call this flop raise and reevaluate the turn?

[stunna954]

[ QUOTE ]
suited one gappers are not a hand i would play after two limps and a raise, if u wanna play a hand like that i would recommend a pattern like one limp a raise and a call of the raise, since you dont wanna get HU with a hand that "plays well in multiway flops" which i still dont think 108dd does.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I understand why you may use a pattern to dictate when you do and don't call I actually think this situation is more preferable then the pattern you listed above.

They're nearly identical in that I'm 99% sure the limpers are tagging along (have you ever seen open limpers fold to a 4x raise with a caller behind and then fold?). So what does it matter if they call before or after me? The only difference is in your situation in a 6max game I'm going to often be calling an utg raise versus the co or even worse I'll be calling out of the blinds instead of the button.

Anyways here's how the hand ended up.

Hero raises all-in to $108.30</font>, UTG calls all-in for $38.05, CO calls all-in for $47.05
Uncalled bet of $43.75 returned to Hero

Turn: ($187.40) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 Players - 3 All-In)

River: ($187.40) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 Players - 3 All-In)

Pot Size: $187.40 ($3 Rake)

UTG had A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (a flush, Ace high) and WON (+$101.35)
CO had T/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (a pair of Tens) and LOST (-$66.55)
Hero had T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (a flush, Jack high) and LOST (-$33.55)

Sadly enough I should have taken the pot down with the shove I don't see how either can call here but I guess that's why it's 50nl.