When do you overbet a made flush?

[tbaarslag]

Ok, this has come up quite a lot lately, so thoughts are very much appreciated. I might be losing a lot of value in these spots.

Villain is too loose, calls too much, but is not insane.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (3 handed) handconverter.com (http://www.handconverter.com)

Button ($45.35)
SB ($18.21)
Hero ($58.40)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Button calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: ($1.25) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1.25</font>, Button calls $1.25.

Turn: ($3.75) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $3</font>, Button calls $3.

River: ($9.75) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $53.65 (All-In)</font>, Button folds.

Final Pot: $9.75

Do you ever overbet this much here, or only when you have reason to think villain has a very good hand too?

Do we hope he has KQ/JT or just bet $7.50 or so?

[mugatu668]

That's horrible. You want to get value out of a king. Bet $6-7

[greggg230]

Wait.. huh?

Bet $7.

[Bowlboy]

A lot of the time when a villain has a set, straight or smaller flush you just value bet the river and it all goes in anyway because you get raised.

[tbaarslag]

My reasoning was that he has to have KQ/JT/baby flush/set only a small percentage of the time to make this a profitable move. If the consensus is "horrible", then I am glad; it's an easy leak to fix, thanks.

[greggg230]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of the time when a villain has a set, straight or smaller flush you just value bet the river and it all goes in anyway because you get raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, there's nothing villain is calling this big of a bet with that he's not raising a smaller value bet with, too.

[Vyse]

Um... Never. I used to do it, but you're only going to get value from the hands Bowlboy mentioned, which will likely raise you anyway, and losing value from the tons of other hands they can have and you allow them to play perfectly.

[Edgar_spadix]

imo; Only overbet if you haven't shown any strength (which is not calling pf/flop/turn because that usually shows alot of strenght on uNL :P) and you think villain has a pretty strong hand which he slowplayed on the turn. Then still I don't like AI but maybe 2 times the potsize.

[Rollos]

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif ($6, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $4.25</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: 3/images/graemlins/club.gif ($14.5, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $7</font>, BB calls.

River: 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($28.5, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero is all-in $44.7</font>, BB calls.

Results:
Final pot: $117.9

Only do it against complete retards that overvalue their top pair hands. EDIT: opponent had q8o fyi.

[castigar]

I checked all hand long once (grabbed a set on flop and a boat on river). On river, the pot was 4 cents, I had a stack of 5$ and the flush was possible. I simply went all in... To my surprise, my OP quickly called.

That made my day.

[TheSalche]

Wow if you're going to overbet the pot like ever, it should never be more than twice the pot size ... no way in hell am I calling you here unless I have the king high flush, in which case my money would've gone in sooner.

[vixticator]

[ QUOTE ]
Only do it against complete retards that overvalue their top pair hands.

[/ QUOTE ]Better to do with set, two pair hands rather than flush. Opponent can figure out you are pushing a flush a lot easier, I overpush with sets/two pair against top pair calling stations whenever I get the chance.

[barryc83]

Like others have said this is a much better move if you have a set and the flush doesnt hit on the turn. Most donks cant lay down any K here. But theyre always scared when the obv draw hits, so Id just bet close to pot.

[theflyingcow]

[ QUOTE ]
Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif ($6, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $4.25</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: 3/images/graemlins/club.gif ($14.5, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $7</font>, BB calls.

River: 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($28.5, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero is all-in $44.7</font>, BB calls.

Results:
Final pot: $117.9

Only do it against complete retards that overvalue their top pair hands. EDIT: opponent had q8o fyi.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lmao, nice. Instabuddy.