QQ should i be saving money here?

[Charlie_VB]

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $47.45
BB: $22.50
UTG: $153.55
MP: $82.45
Hero (CO): $51.35
BTN: $49.25

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (6 Players)
2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2.00</font>, BTN folds, <font color="red">SB raises to $6.00</font>, BB folds, Hero calls $4.00

Flop: ($12.50) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $8.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $24.00</font>, <font color="red">SB raises all-in to $41.45</font>, Hero calls $17.45

Turn: ($95.40) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players - 1 All-In)

River: ($95.40) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $95.40 ($3 Rake)

SB had A/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (a pair of Aces) and WON (+$44.95)
Hero had Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (a pair of Queens) and LOST (-$47.45)


Villain: 38/13/1

[mdrudeen]

what hand did you think villain had?

With the preflop call and the potish raise on the flop it looks like you are trying to find a place to fold, but then you don't. If you are willing to felt QQ here why not do it preflop, or just shove the flop on your first bet?

I three bet preflop and probably shove a reraise based on stats

as played I fold to the flop all in

[dawade]

As much as it pains us, you just simply have to let this go on the flop.

FWIW, I'd be more inclined to just call the flop, but we definitely have to fold to his shove.

Also, reads are helpful.

[Sotiria]

I like a call on the flop much better than the raise, but I also saw results so.....

[DickieBets]

If we can ignore the turn card in this example,

Given the number of times I see players 3-bet 9s, 10s and Js preflop, I wonder if an aggressive player like that might play one of the above mentioned pocket pairs like this ? Or is this reasonably unlikely ?

[thawannabe]

[ QUOTE ]
If we can ignore the turn card in this example,

Given the number of times I see players 3-bet 9s, 10s and Js preflop, I wonder if an aggressive player like that might play one of the above mentioned pocket pairs like this ? Or is this reasonably unlikely ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it. Although his VPIP is high. This player's postflop aggro factor is so small you have to tighten his range by the way he played it.

As played: i would fold the flop

[Miyogi]

I dont' really see a problem with it. I think that you will see a whiffed AKo, JJ or 76 etc. as often as you will see KK or AA. If you want to play your big pairs strong then you could 4bet preflop if you wanted.

[Vyse]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont' really see a problem with it. I think that you will see a whiffed AKo, JJ or 76 etc. as often as you will see KK or AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol @ 76 being in his range after 3betting PF. I guess 22, 44 and 55 should be included in his range too... which we're getting dominated by.

[Miyogi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont' really see a problem with it. I think that you will see a whiffed AKo, JJ or 76 etc. as often as you will see KK or AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol @ 76 being in his range after 3betting PF. I guess 22, 44 and 55 should be included in his range too... which we're getting dominated by.

[/ QUOTE ]

You honestly don't get 3bet by villians with sc's or air even?

[Vyse]

So therefore you admit the low PPs would be in his 3betting range, further increasing the range of hands villain could be on that have us drawing to 2 outs.

[Miyogi]

[ QUOTE ]
So therefore you admit the low PPs would be in his 3betting range, further increasing the range of hands villain could be on that have us drawing to 2 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are looking to pick a fight then find someone else. Assuming that I am misreading your tone (and that you are interested in discussion rather then hyperbole) then yes I would include low PP's in villian's range. And yes it would further increase the chance villian has a set but would also increase the chance that we have villian drawing to 2 outs. Villian could also be making a move like this with a hand like A5. I don't think these hands are the biggest part of villians range but I think they are big enough to justify the call.

[Vyse]

The problem in your analysis is that while villain theoretically HAVE those hands, those hands go out the window when villain pushes over with an AI 3bet. A5 and 76 go waaaaaay out of his range.

[Miyogi]

I agree that those are not the most likely hands for villian to have. However, we are getting nearly 5:1 to call the push. Adding in hands like 76s or A5 for maybe 5% of the time makes this seem like a pretty attractive call to me. The other thing to consider is that OP hasn't told us anything about his image. If he is a nit then he obviously that changes how to play the hand vs. if villian sees him as over aggro. If OP is going to 3bet this here then definately needs to call. If he wants to play the hand passively and go for a cheap showdown then I think that is ok as well.