NL25: AA facing three-bet push on paired board

[Emperor Norton]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($24.65)
Hero ($55.80)
MP ($57.40)
CO ($7.95)
Button ($20.10)
SB ($25.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls $0.90, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($2.25) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $1</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $24.5</font>, Hero calls $20.50.

Standard? Villain is unknown.

[filsteal]

I play it the same.

[Jouster777]

[ QUOTE ]
I usually play it the same.

[/ QUOTE ] ...but I'm not sure that's right. Does villain really play TT this way? Looks a lot like 8x or 44.

[samwallistea]

Why is villain unknown? I mean really without a read or stats its hard for us and you to make a decision about what to do. He could easily have overpair here but without read on opponent we have no idea how he would play it. We also have no idea how he would play trips.

[corsakh]

There is a theorem stating that a 3bet on paired uncoordinated boards is always a bluff.

[GtrHtr]

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($24.65)
Hero ($55.80)
MP ($57.40)
CO ($7.95)
Button ($20.10)
SB ($25.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls $0.90, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($2.25) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $1</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $24.5</font>, Hero calls $20.50.

Standard? Villain is unknown.

[/ QUOTE ]

ez fold. As you think about this hand, list out all the reasons why ud call and why you'd fold. Are you guys who say play along thinking beyond what is our hand??

ez fold.

[Emperor Norton]

What stakes do you play these days, GtrHtr? I used to post a lot in STTF under a different name, so I remember you well.

Correct my thought process. Villain donks the flop weakly, and I raise. At this point I've only shown strength, but villain doesn't seem to care, which suggests that his most likely holdings are either six, or possibly a very strong draw. I can't count on an unknown to be taking this ridiculous line with a big pocket pair, so I have to reluctantly limit his range to one which has me pretty well crushed. Are there any other considerations you'd take into account?

[bozzer]

looks fine.

if the flop is xx4, at what x do we fold? J?

[bozzer]

lol this is an easy call guys. unknowns with 99-KK all take this line quite a lot. they are also fairly unlikely to call with preflop with an 8.

then there is yeti theorum which suggests most people will call your raise and proceed to the turn on a dry flop. this is 2tone though, so not sure if it applies that well.

[Genz]

[ QUOTE ]

ez fold. As you think about this hand, list out all the reasons why ud call and why you'd fold. Are you guys who say play along thinking beyond what is our hand??

ez fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I learned one thing on the micros: You need to call this. This is everything from 33 to KK including AK. Everything. Even if it is a bet/3bet-ai.

[poker_n00b]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a theorem stating that a 3bet on paired uncoordinated boards is always a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Yeti (Yeti is a 2+2 poster) theorem. I would say it does not apply to the same extent at micro limits.

And I fold to flop 3-bet.

[Nick C]

I would call, although I'm not exactly ecstatic to be facing the push.

Part of my thinking is that you wouldn't expect very many 8x hands to see a flop, although since SB is a complete unknown, this assumption could be inaccurate for him, I know.

We are in good shape against two big spades, so that's another consideration, although we don't know if Villan would play a big flush draw this way or not.

[barryc83]

Wow maybe I'm off here but I snapcall this without a second thought. He could put you on AK, he could have spades, unknowns do this with any pp. With all the slowplayers Id be surprised to see an 8. This is like the best flop to have AA on bc villains always think youre FOS and do [censored] like this with very marginal hands/bluffs.

[evil_ronnie]

i agree it's a snapcall vs an unknown.