QiGong: Science fiction or real but unexplainable for the time being?

[Shoe Lace]

Some of the things in the video linked below look quite real. I'll admit I'm pretty skeptical, and I'm sure everyone has seen that video where the guy who claims he can throw people around without touching them gets mauled by a "real" fighter.

This stuff however seems quite different, and after slight research it doesn't seem THAT improbable. I went from thinking "99% bs / tricks" to about 50/50 undecided.

Logical thought says bs, but perhaps it's not. I remember not too long ago in a different forum someone linked a 5 part series of this kid who was ridiculously gifted with math and is able to assign patterns to numbers/letters by thinking of them as shapes and colors.

Pretty much unproven by science, yet extremely unlikely to be fake. Why would this be different?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co6G-vyAlII

What do you think?

[pzhon]

If I had supernatural powers, the best way to demonstrate them would be to pull rabbits out of hats, and to make selected cards appear in funny places. That way, everyone would be sure to believe me.

If they have something substantial, why are they demonstrating it using the same tricks as street performers who make no claim to be anything but entertaining? The show they are on has even mentioned explanations for some of the tricks in other episodes. The show is about telling a nice story, not testing the people they show.

[Wubbie075]

I didn't see anything there so incredible as to require anything supernatural...

note that I'm not saying its easy and would certainly require lots of training and I definitely would not be attempting most of those stunts... but really they are just doing things they know they are capable of in a controlled environment...

there are tons of similar demonstrations done by plenty of ppl without QiGong training... don't underestimate the toughness of the human skin if you are controlling the stress applied to it... I guarantee I could slice that dude who was bouncing the sword off his chest with a standard steak knife

[React1oN]

THEY TOOK THE CHI FROM HEAVEN.

This is stupid.

[Duke]

It's about as unexplainable as David Blaine.

[Shoe Lace]

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don't underestimate the toughness of the human skin if you are controlling the stress applied to it

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I can see that, but what about when he puts the poles directly onto his eyes?

I'm not a pro when it comes to anatomy but I'm pretty sure you can't toughen up or train your eyelids from taking this amount of pressure. There's no muscle/etc.

Maybe it's just misleading camera angles (majority of the pressure is on the side of his nose?).

[CallMeIshmael]

http://kimskorner.zed1.net/albums/Answers/qui_gonjinn1.jpg

[DannyOcean_]

There are magicians in vegas who regularly do the pole tricks. They're nothing special, really.

[knowledgeORbust]

[ QUOTE ]
There are magicians in vegas who regularly do the pole tricks. They're nothing special, really.

[/ QUOTE ]

THEN LETS SEE YOU DO THEM

But seriously, what's the trick? I want some Chi.

[DannyOcean_]

I've seen two different magicians on tv shows do the pole on the throat tricks, as well as other fun pole related bendings. A cousin of mine saw it live in veags. Just saying that anything a magician does on tv probably does not have a mystical 'chi' force as its real explanation.

As for the sword stuff, that's just an acquired skill. I'm no expert but i'd imagine with years of training you could learn to hit someone without cutting them with a very sharp sword easily. angles/momentum changes/skin toughness and so forth.

[Happy Hour]

Tricks that would actually be impressive:

Balance on the point of one spear (that is actually sharp).

Lie on a bed of nails that are 12 inches apart (and then get run over with a scooter).

Lie so that his neck is resting on the blade and the rest of his body is suspended by a rope around his legs and then have someone step on his neck.

Use sharp pointy poles in their throats and eyes.

Step on a scale not using chi then use his chi to make the scale read that he weighs less.


Why don't they do these things? Oh well, I guess chi is only powerful enough to perform feats that anyone could do with no chi training. That's too bad. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Shoe Lace]

I'm not sure if I can believe skin toughness being able to handle being sliced by a razor sharp sword no matter what angle it comes in at.

Of course we have no idea how sharp the sword itself is on camera. It could be a dulled out piece of metal and nothing else.

I have seen blades that are so sharp where if it just touches your skin with the least amount of force possible you're going to draw blood.

I spent 7 years in martial arts (a physical variant, none of this qigong stuff), as well as play guitar and bowl.

My fingers tips (especially on my index fingers) are about as conditioned as you can get (to withstand being cut) yet a simple piece of paper will still cut me. It won't draw blood, but it will make a noticible cut (which I can both feel and see).

There was another video where a guy was able to produce a ridiculous amount of heat from his body. The camera crew setup a heat vision camera and recorded temps that reached 202 degrees in his hand which you got to see from the camera's POV.

He went around touching people and their reactions did not look fake. You can usually tell when someone is really getting burnt simply because you probably know what it feels like to get burnt. Your body just spazzes out and removes itself away from the heat source as an automatic response.

[Phil153]

Comment from the video: with Chi can lighten himself enough to walk on lightbulbs, but when standing on a scale he can't lighten himself at all.

What is the more likely?

- The lightbulb demonstration is a trick - and his weight does not alter at all, in accordance with all known laws of physics

- He can defy the laws of gravity with his mind, but can't replicate the effects when standing on scales.

I'll take the former for a million to 1.

The heat thing sounds like nonsense too. 202 degrees? lol. Does a chi-barrier form around his proteins to stop them getting denatured?

[Shoe Lace]

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The heat thing sounds like nonsense too. 202 degrees? lol. Does a chi-barrier form around his proteins to stop them getting denatured?

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I have no idea, all I know is..

If he flat out says "it cannot be done with a scale", why would he say this instead of just setting up a rigged scale to prove he can?

With the heat thing, the cameras validate the temps in real time, but now the camera must be rigged.

I don't think any amount of non-eyewitness proof will sway the thoughts of someone who does not believe it's possible. There will always be "camera is rigged", "scale is rigged", "false angles", being thrown around -- which I don't blame anyone for.

[SNOWBALL]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't think any amount of non-eyewitness proof will sway the thoughts of someone who does not believe it's possible. There will always be "camera is rigged", "scale is rigged", "false angles", being thrown around -- which I don't blame anyone for.



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do you have a link to the story of the dude with the high temperature? Maybe he smeared himself with some kind of lotion (ky warming gel!?) or something. As for people feeling that he was burning them, that's doable through either the power of suggestion or through him actually having a caustic substance on his skin.

Another question: are heat sensitive cameras supposed to be fairly accurate or do they have a ridiculous margin of error? Is it possible that the camera was picking up the heat signature from something behind him or near him?

[Phil153]

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If he flat out says "it cannot be done with a scale", why would he say this instead of just setting up a rigged scale to prove he can?

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It's highly likely they believe this stuff about chi, and have a rationale for why it doesn't work on a scale. Just like faith healers have rationales for why they can perform instant healing of internal cancers, but not remove a pimple. They too believe in their ideas.

One common misconceptionis that skeptics think the performer must be fraudulent. That's often not the case. Skeptics simply place far less faith and trust in the judgment of others than normal people do - and they are justified in doing so. All the evidence in the world suggests that human judgment is massively flawed. Most of these miracle-doers probably believe in their own magic.

[ QUOTE ]
With the heat thing, the cameras validate the temps in real time, but now the camera must be rigged.

[/ QUOTE ]
Where is the heat video? I haven't seen it.

Like most things, the ideas that humans can harness a magical force or tap into a power that drives the universe, to overcome the known laws of physics, is both exciting and seductive. But extraordinary claims requires more extraordinary proof than tricks that can be replicated by magicians. As far as I know no one has ever passed the scale test. Which is case closed as far as I'm concerned.

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
I have seen blades that are so sharp where if it just touches your skin with the least amount of force possible you're going to draw blood.

[/ QUOTE ]
I call bullshido. You need to draw a sword across the skin with some pressure to cut or be chopping with a great deal of force. Go find your shaving razor and touch your finger to it without moving it. You won't get cut and a I highly doubt you'll find a sword that is sharper than a razor because of how fragile it'd be.

These guys likely just do a lot of hard body conditioning to toughen up various parts of them.

[Shoe Lace]

I'll try to find the heat video. You know how it is on youtube. You find a topic, then you bury yourself 10 videos deep of similar videos... that is where I found it.

[ QUOTE ]
I call bullshido. You need to draw a sword across the skin with some pressure to cut or be chopping with a great deal of force. Go find your shaving razor and touch your finger to it without moving it.

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Trust me, your shaving razor is not all that sharp. It's sharp obviously, but it's not "wtf insane" sharp.

It will cut boxes, and severe a finger with enough force though. No questions asked.

A custom hand made blade by a professional smith (who is not a gimp) would be sharp enough where if you placed the edge on your arm you will bleed.

The force required would be less than the weight of the sword itself. I guess if you used a special machine to literally apply a minute amount of force it would not cut you. I didn't expect to be taken literally. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I'm basing my statements on real life encounters. I was shown a blade that was ridiculously sharp. It wasn't a magical blade made by monks in a special land. It was just a damn good blade made by a professional blacksmith.

He didn't cut skin, but he let us slice up various fruits. I placed it onto an unpeeled banana, and just rested it on the banana. The banana cut.

My grip on the handle was not firm. I left my thumb off, pretty much holding the handle with my finger tips. Most of the blade's weight was on the banana, but not all of it.

[BCPVP]

I don't doubt that swords can be made incredibly sharp. IIRC, one of the problems with making a sharper sword is that the metal needs to be really hard to hold an edge, but that makes it more brittle. And I'm pretty sure a banana is not representative of human skin.

And I highly doubt the dao used in the video was even razor sharp, much less banana-killing, lightsaber sharp. Like I said, there are exercises for toughening your body that these guys do (see iron palm for an example).

[evank15]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think any amount of non-eyewitness proof will sway the thoughts of someone who does not believe it's possible. There will always be "camera is rigged", "scale is rigged", "false angles", being thrown around -- which I don't blame anyone for.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jebus forgive we be skeptical!

I'd much rather believe every swindling, smooth talking charlatan out there.