Getting Rammed at Full Tilt, a 25$ NL Transistion

[WCGRider]

Hello fellow Micro posters, I have a few questions to ask you guys about 25$ NL, and see if you have any input for me.

First, in order to build my roll i grinded up from 5$ NL, then 10$ NL, then when i hit 500$, i moved over to 25$ NL. I played at pokerstars and built that up to about 700$ Running @ about 8ptbb/100. So a few days ago, i decided that it was time to move to Full tilt for the deposit bonus and rakeback, and to be frank, an expectation of slightly softer play.

However, boy could i have not been more wrong. I moved 600$ over to FT and have frankly been knocked down. Ive lost almost 100$ @ 25$ NL with an astonishing negative 18 ptBB/100 @ 6max over 1.5k hands. Now, I am still rolled to play, with roughly 500$ left in my account, but i keep getting hammered like this for much longer, Im either going to have to stick a fork in 25$ NL for a while, or very sadly transfer back to pokerstars.

So my question to the Micro forum is, players who play @ Full Tilt, and preferably @ pokerstars as well, what do you find you need to change in order to do well? My stats are currently 19/12/2.5, which is probably a little more passive then i should be playing. However, i find that my cbets get attacked a LOT more @ Full Tilt then @ pokerstars, and quite often the come in over the top all in, and im pretty much getting nailed .

So any advice on 25$ NL in general, anyone that plays 25$ NL @ Full Tilt, or anyone who went through the 25$ NL Growing pains, I would love to talk to you on aim or something. If not, then just leave some words of advice.

(And for the record, this isnt a "OMG LIFE HATES ME SO MANY BEATS" thread, its really just me trying to get to know 25$ NL better, and looking for some possible advice.)

Thanks, Doug

[jonyy6788]

i lose 4BIs all the time and I'm a nit

play your game and if ur down a ton in the future move down to NL10 or go back to Stars where u are comfortable

[Lego05]

This could be just normal variance. Down 4 buy-ins can happen over 1.5K hands.

Also though at 19/12 I think there's a good chance you may be calling too much pre-flop.

How many hands did you play st Stars when running at 8PTBB/100 hands?



BTW I'm not positive, but I think they take that $600 deposit bonus out of your rakeback.

[Fiksdal]

Dude, haven't you been paying ANY attention to all the posts of others and me explaining thouroughly that ftp is RIGGED?

Seriously though.

If, somehow, the games at ftp are different than the ones on Stars, then don't worry. The ftp 25NL games are still easily beatable for anyone halfway decent at poker. You sound like a reasonably solid player and should be able to adapt if they are somehow different from what you are used to.

How many hands have you played so far at FTP? I have a feeling you might just be dealing with some cruel variance here.

[Iwineverypot]

they take it out of the MGR not the rakeback, which means the 600 bonus * .27 would be taken out of your rakeback, still a great deal.

[corsakh]

4BI is nothing.
Look into your table selection and time selection though.
If you 8ptbb was over a significant sample, over 20k, as it should be - you shouldnt have any problems getting used to FTP.

[WCGRider]

Over about 15k hands (the 8ptbb/100), and even if it is taken out of my bonus, i still get the rakeback after, so im always at least making something back.

So basically, this is variance? Pretty nasty stuff so far, I prob will just keep playing and if i drop another 100 then re evaluate. But i would still love some more advice, thanks for the responses so far.

And what do you mean as far as table and time selection, I have much to learn in those areas i suppose.

[corsakh]

I drop 4BI daily.

[Fiksdal]

[ QUOTE ]
find that my cbets get attacked a LOT more @ Full Tilt then @ pokerstars

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Look into your table selection

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

1. Look for the more passive tables.
2. Sit down at a couple.
3. Value bet.
4. ?????????? [AKA have your hands hold up]
5. PROFIT.

[WCGRider]

How do i find more passive tables? Do i want tables with high % of players to the flop or lower? Do i want tables with higher average pots or lower? My way of table selection @ stars was to find the biggest average pots and most players to the flop, but perhaps that was not the right way to do it.

[corsakh]

High % who see the flop
Big pots

Plus run a datamine at your level and you will know who your friends are /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Pigslice]

Hey, first off, 1.5k hands is nothing. Most people play that amount in a day or even a session. Yea, its been said that you're just experiencing variance so I think you got that covered.

You basically table select the same way I do and frankly I think thats fine. Maybe try looking for fish you have identified in PT.

Also, I dunno if this is solid advice, but I would have played 1k - 3k hands at nl10 to get used to the software/players. It wouldn't hurt but you might feel like it's a waste of your time.

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
High % who see the flop
Big pots

Plus run a datamine at your level and you will know who your friends are /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


You couldn't do this at Stars but get used to it at Full Tilt. There is absolutely no reason to not have at least 20 tables running at all times datamining all of the players.


And yea high % to flop and big pot size. If you can use a table selection tool I like looking for high volume voluntarily put in pot with the lowest pre-flop raise %. Plus buddy list some of the bad players you run into and join their tables in the future.

[WCGRider]

Ok sounds good. As for datamining, If i open up all the tables, it will keep all of that information even if im not in the hand? If so, that is a great piece of advice, thanks!

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, first off, 1.5k hands is nothing. Most people play that amount in a day or even a session.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's also true. I played 5k hands today and I had a 4 buy-in drop over a 1000 hand period in there. Finished +8 buy-ins.

[Worm75]

Table selection!!!! Huge key, combined with Datamining and sixth sense=easy fishy monies!!!

Seriously, datamine the hell out of FTP for a couple days, and maybe think about cutting back on the number of tables you play if you multitable....also Pokerace HUD is the greatest invention eva for a poker player.

[WCGRider]

I opened up a bunch of tables, but pokertracker doesn't appear to see the hands played. How do i datamine exactly?

[corsakh]

You need to save hand history to your hard drive, then you need to show pt where to find them.

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
I opened up a bunch of tables, but pokertracker doesn't appear to see the hands played. How do i datamine exactly?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. I'm at Stars and never played at Full Tilt. But I know that you can.



Sorry....this isn't helpful.

[ama0330]

Congratulations, you ran into some variance! In the space of 2.5k hands at Party I had a 6bi downswing then an 8bi upswing, and I'm sensational at poker*. Looks to me like you had it pretty easy in terms of running good over at Pokerstars, now you're experiencing the other side.

Get used to it!


*fact

[WCGRider]

I have it set to import all of my hand histories, but i dont know how to get it to import hands that i am part of, or furthermore how to get full tilt to record hands im not part of.

Haha thanks ama ;p

[ama0330]

OP, head to the PokerTracker forums at pokertracker.com and read the FAQ's. They have the answer to every question you could possibly want to ask.

[WCGRider]

Wow thanks ama, I learned so much information in the past 20 minutes, that right there has already helped me out so much. Thanks : )

[ama0330]

No worries, good luck at the tables!

[Ikaika]

Rider I've played with you on Stars, you play a solid game and have nothing to worry about. Just keep doing what you were doing on Stars and your results will turn around.

[C4LL4W4Y]

Same thing happened to me awhile back. The FTP games are a bit more aggro, so some range adjusting needs to be done. Other than that don't get frustrated that you're not winning, because its probably variance, and IMHO FTP uNL is a goldmine.

[kewl_cph]

Have patience and take the donks to valuetown.
Don't give action to nits.

[deal]

High flop seen % and large pot size are a good starting point for finding good tables, however you need to look a bit further than this. If it's a table with 5 good LAG's you would get the same stats but it would be a horrible table to play at! Check this it's awesome --> http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Number=3964627

[WCGRider]

Thx, still getting pwned though, hope this pulls up soon!

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/328/gettingpummelledbq3.jpg

Thank god for bonus and rakeback though right? Thx to the bonus down 30$ Less. Thanks for all all the feedback everyone.

[Bantam222]

its ok to move down to 10NL for a while to get your confidence back

[knowledgeORbust]

8BB/100 over how many hands?

If you're holding 8bb/100 over 20k+ hands at Stars, you'll still be able to kill the games at Ft even if they are a bit harder. $500 is PLENTY for $25NL, don't sweat it. If you break $350 you can consider moving down to build up confidence, but don't think about your $$ too much.

Focus, play a solid TAG game, and you'll be back in no time. I chalk it up to variance.

[T3rminator4]

Post deleted by EMcWilliams

[EMc]

That post wasnt necessary