fancy, standard or somewhere in between?

[kurto]

players have been 3 betting from the blinds a fair amount so I'm not certain if this is a blind defense or a legitimate hand. Player is TAP...

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $68.25
BB: $50.90
UTG: $81.35
CO: $46.25
Hero (BTN): $52.35

Preflop: Hero is dealt J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 Players)
2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, SB folds, <font color="red">BB raises to $5.50</font>, Hero calls $3.75

Flop: ($11.25) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $8.00</font>, Hero calls $8.00

Turn: ($27.25) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets all-in for $38.85</font>,

[barryc83]

Man I'm not a fan at all of the pf call. If I'm gonna take a stand, its not with J4s. I guess the turn bet is ok, what are you trying to accomplish with it?

Will he fold an overpair here? Most likely not. Will he make a ballsy call with 88-TT? He might but you didnt really provide a read. I guess you protect from an overcard hitting, but I wonder if theres more value in seeing a river and making a decision if he checks/pushes. If he checked the turn with a big hand well then obv you got pwned.

[PRE]

If you're going to take a stand that 4 bet PF rather than calling with that junk.

Turn is terrible.

[kurto]

I agree the preflop is dicey. I'm surprised you think the turn is terrible.


I raised PF. SMoothcalled a reraise. Smoothcalled a flop bet... pushed turn. I'd play my overpairs and monsters the same way.

PF was because I had position and didn't want to cont to laydown when people are blind protecting

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Man I'm not a fan at all of the pf call. If I'm gonna take a stand, its not with J4s. I guess the turn bet is ok, what are you trying to accomplish with it?

Will he fold an overpair here? Most likely not. Will he make a ballsy call with 88-TT? He might but you didnt really provide a read. I guess you protect from an overcard hitting, but I wonder if theres more value in seeing a river and making a decision if he checks/pushes. If he checked the turn with a big hand well then obv you got pwned.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to ask you too... you're in villains shoes. Someone raises preflop... you reraise and he smoothcalls your reraise. You lead into him a psb and he calls. If the player isn't an idiot, you have to give him credit for a hand.

I wanted him to fold with my bet. But if he calls and I'm behind, I still likely have 14 outs. Plus, there's a chance my pair of Jacks is the best hand if he has AK, AQ or some mid pairs.

My intention preflop was to use my position and to attempt to discourage the blinds from 3 betting so often. The flop I'm semifloating (there's definitely a chance I'm ahead here)... once he checked the turn I thought my push had a reasonable chance of forcing a fold while giving me reasonable number of outs if he calls.

I agree pf is very iffy. But I'm not sure where my thinking is wrong on the turn.

[CennyCripple]

Seiously... If he's not really tight and got like 90% fold to steal. (Includes SB). Or folds everything you need to fold this PF.

I think the push is better than a wellsized bet. Might pick upp some underdogs

[boycalledroy]

What weaker hands will call? What stronger hands will fold?

The fact you have a hand is pretty much meaningless you could make this float with any 2 cards.

[matrix]

fold preflop.

a TIGHT AND PASSIVE player 3bets you preflop and you call with J4s /images/graemlins/confused.gif

if this guy has 3bet lots from the blinds pre is very marginal at best.

flop is meh.

You are WB 60%+ of the time and you have to assume if he's rr preflop and betting the flop that he's going to follow through with a 2nd barrel a good chunk of the time so I hate flat calling here, we are only beating AK and air are often behind to QQ+/set.

I like the turn as played. He folds all worse hands - and *maybe* AJs calls with his OP/set hands (we are 30% dog to those)

If you do some math the times he calls you with QQ/set you lose ~25.90/hand.

If he folds you make 27.20.

If you add in a couple of times where he calls with worse hands AKdd maybe but rarely 89/9Tdd.

If he folds to your push more than 40% of the time or so I think it's +EV.

[corsakh]

WTH are you doing.. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[flo]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree the preflop is dicey. I'm surprised you think the turn is terrible.


I raised PF. SMoothcalled a reraise. Smoothcalled a flop bet... pushed turn. I'd play my overpairs and monsters the same way.

PF was because I had position and didn't want to cont to laydown when people are blind protecting

[/ QUOTE ]

Nobody at these tables is gonna remember what you did with overcards.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree the preflop is dicey. I'm surprised you think the turn is terrible.


I raised PF. SMoothcalled a reraise. Smoothcalled a flop bet... pushed turn. I'd play my overpairs and monsters the same way.

PF was because I had position and didn't want to cont to laydown when people are blind protecting

[/ QUOTE ]

Nobody at these tables is gonna remember what you did with overcards.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not true. Half the people playing the tables are paying attention and half aren't. I'm not doing this to a calling station who'll never lay anything down. I doing it to a player who is Tight-aggressive-passive. Which means he is somewhat more thoughtful about his game then a calling station. Since he's more passive post-flop, he's liable to be more willing to laydown a hand.

I agree with everyone that the preflop is highly out of the norm. I am simply disagreeing that you should assume all opponents don't pay attention. I tend to assume that the tighter players are a little more willing to laydown then someone whose stats are 52/30/4.

[AFennewald]

The preflop call is horrible. IT would be bad enough with a hand like 89s. flop is ok if he is not prone to doable barrleing. don't bet the turn because you often have the best hand but you don't get called by worse and I don't think overpairs are folding. AK, and AQ only have 6 outs against you.

[kurto]

No one liked this hand but I may have been lucky.

Villain folded quite quickly.