NL25 flopped over pair 4 way

[Let_it_rain]

This was odd original raiser was a muppet min raiser with no bet sizing

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($35.80)
Hero ($25)
BB ($50.10)
UTG ($26.25)
MP ($33.25)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $0.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $1.5</font>, Hero calls $1.40, BB calls $1.25, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $2.5</font>, Button calls $1, Hero calls $1, BB calls $1.

Flop: ($10) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $1</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4.75</font>, BB calls $4.75, UTG calls $4.75, Button folds.

Turn: ($25.25) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks.

River: ($25.25) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $42.85 (All-In)</font>, UTG folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $68.10

I have to fold this river i think but am not sure about turn and flop play

[C4LL4W4Y]

UTG and BTN have showed strength preflop, which is why I don't understand your flop raise.

[LordBrun]

Looks okay. I like the line of c/r the flop to define your hand. You pretty much have to give up after getting two callers. I guess arguments could be made for a fold preflop.

[LordBrun]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG and BTN have showed strength preflop, which is why I don't understand your flop raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you suggest calling for set value and c/f when unimproved?

[munkey]

I may c/r more to like 6 or 7 and think you played it fine.

Or if you likely get floated with overcards -call flop bet lead turn -you are OOP with a medium hand given the preflop action - if yo're raised you can safely fold and your equity is higher vs their range.

[Go_BroKe]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess arguments could be made for a fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

never ever

raise flop harder ~ 8$

[Quester]

Your flop raise isn't even 1/2 pot, it's just way too small. I usually fire again on the turn. Here, you'd either play it as you did or get it in.

[Let_it_rain]

On the flop i wanted to see where i was at with the hand, the smooth call by the button of the final raise made me question the strength of his hand. Was trying to see where i was at. Figured if the hand wasn't over there i was done with it.

But should have bet more hey? By the way anyone else figure the river shover for J's? It's the only line that i like apart from quads

[ActionStan]

There's a min-raise, a raise of the min-raise, a min-raise of the raised min-raise and 4 players take the flop. I just can't believe TT is good here. Chuck it and live to fight another day.

I also don't really get the 3.75 raise. You're not folding out anything that is even remotely close to that board and now the pot leaves you with less than a PSB behind and no useful information except that the button entirely whiffed.

[C4LL4W4Y]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
UTG and BTN have showed strength preflop, which is why I don't understand your flop raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you suggest calling for set value and c/f when unimproved?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm saying that your flop raise is so insignificant that it won't narrow the range of hands that will play back at you. Raise it harder.

[relativity_x]

preflop: raise to 2/2.25

flop: lead 6, or as played CR ~7/8

As played, fold river.

[ActionStan]

But it isn't only the button that you're really worried about. He has a hand like AQ or AK. UTG has put in 2 raises, calls a flop raise and folds on the river to effectively less than a PSB. Maybe he folded QQ? I don't know. His line is just crazy. Honestly all the lines in this hand are kind of whacky. All these little raises until the end.

At the end of the day, I don't think TT is good. I don't think it was good preflop. It wasn't likely to be good on the flop and almost certainly wasn't good on the river.

If you are going to stick in a raise on the flop, make it big enough to get some information. But really, your stack is so short that a raise that will gather information for you gets half your stack in the middle with a hand that is almost certainly beaten.

Once the pot becomes bloated like that the structure becomes very poor for you. All those little pre-flop raises were deadly. If 3 people saw the flop for $1.50, you could make a $5.00 raise that would be worthwhile. Now that the pot is $10 and you have 3 other people who call too much to move through. You are out of position. That is just a bad situation for you. Write off the small investment you made and move on to the next hand.

[Let_it_rain]

thanks nice post

[ActionStan]

Right, I think the raise was the wrong size.

I question proceding with the hand at all. How often do you think your good here? Not being snippety here, I just don't think TT is good here very often. But you could convince me otherwise and I would be onboard with a good sized raise. Do you think TT is the best hand often enough to proceed? Or at least good enough that you want to put yourself in the position of getting half your stack in the middle. If you raise to $10 and get a caller, The pot is $30 and you have like $12 behind. It seems that if the river is an undercard, you almost have to stack off there with a hand that usually isn't good from the beginning.

[boycalledroy]

Preflop I raise to 4.5 and fold to a push. Otherwise it is all going in on that flop. Then I am rebuying and doing it over and over again. I don't want to play oop, I really don't.