NL25 -- TT -- HighStakes bluffs at Micro Level -- too advanced?

[RainbowBright]

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $24.65
BB: $25.25
UTG: $27.95
CO: $36.00
Hero (BTN): $26.35

Reads: <font color="blue">Villain is 22/17/3 is on multiple tables and is likely a 2p2er.</font>

Preflop: Hero is dealt T/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 Players)
2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.00</font>, SB folds, <font color="red">BB raises to $2.40</font>, Hero calls $1.40

Flop: ($4.90) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $3.50</font>, Hero calls $3.50

Turn: ($11.90) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $5.00</font>, BB calls $5.00

<font color="blue">So I expected the bet on the turn to pick up the pot when he folds his AK or I would fold when he pushes me all-in with his pocket Aces. </font>

River: ($21.90) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $15.00</font>

<font color="blue">So when he calls the turn and checks the river. He almost always has JJ or QQ and weighted heavily toward the JJ side.

The bet on the river is a bluff not a value bet, since he will not call with a worse hand. Against 95% of opponents I think checking behind is the appropriate action. However, against a smart opponent who can read hands, I believe an opportunity exists here to turn my hand into a bluff.

It's known at higher stakes as taking a pair hand and turning it into a bluff (Krantz and g-p do it alot). When you realize that although your hand has inherent value (an over pair) that in context of the entire hand (given reraied pot and the lead on the flop and the check call on the turn) and the range of your opponent (JJ,QQ) that it's behind his range.

But the key to this bluff is for your hand to be at the bottom of your range. So the worse hand I would show up wiht here on the river is TT. On the other hand, I could also just as easily have AA+. Therefore, an opportunity exists for me to turn my hand into a bluff and represent a hand at the top of my range like AA.

Who likes the bluff?
</font>

[Sweir]

I don't think he folds JJ/QQ here. I also think that for something like this to work villain needs to know that you are decent aswell or you could just be a random 25nl'er betting 9T b/c you have TP. Also you could easily have busted spades/straight draw here..

[RainbowBright]

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I don't think he folds JJ/QQ here. I also think that for something like this to work villain needs to know that you are decent aswell or you could just be a random 25nl'er betting 9T b/c you have TP. Also you could easily have busted spades/straight draw here..

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Do you call with JJ?

[Sweir]

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I don't think he folds JJ/QQ here. I also think that for something like this to work villain needs to know that you are decent aswell or you could just be a random 25nl'er betting 9T b/c you have TP. Also you could easily have busted spades/straight draw here..

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Do you call with JJ?

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Against and unknown at 25NL?

Yes

[BishopsFinger]

i call with jj+ here every time.

with such a nasty board your weak betting looks fishy and you cant rep aa/kk here as you smoothcalled a 3 bet pf and smoothcalled a flop bet on a horrendous board for an overpair.

i dont like this bluff at all.

[RainbowBright]

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I don't think he folds JJ/QQ here. I also think that for something like this to work villain needs to know that you are decent aswell or you could just be a random 25nl'er betting 9T b/c you have TP. Also you could easily have busted spades/straight draw here..

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Do you call with JJ?

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Against and unknown at 25NL?

Yes

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I'm on multiple tables with him and my numbers are nittier than his.

[RainbowBright]

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i call with jj+ here every time.

with such a nasty board your weak betting looks fishy and you cant rep aa/kk here as you smoothcalled a 3 bet pf and smoothcalled a flop bet on a horrendous board for an overpair.

i dont like this bluff at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think calling the 3-bet preflop means I can't have AA or KK. I think calling with AA is fine (although I like a reraise as well). Not as much as KK.

If I had AA on the turn, I'd make a similar size bet on the turn in order to try and keep TT or JJ in the hand and to set up a similar pot size for the river.

I don't think the board is so scary if I had AA. Instead, I think the board is good because weaker hands are more likely to call. I'd often try and get it in on the flop before a SCARE card came on the turn, not because I'm nervous about him drawing to a flush.

But I guess your reasoning, given that your a smart player means that I should just check behind.

[Vyse]

You would / should've reraised PF and on the flop. No one would believe this.

[Hoopster81]

when you see this flop, your goal should be to get to showdown as cheaply as possible

[Sweir]

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You would / should've reraised PF and on the flop. No one would believe this.

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Yea, JJ/QQ are calling here all day imo.

[bluffbetter]

I think if BB was any good, he would make a proper reraise preflop. I think this is too small because if you have a pair he's not raising enough for it to be correct for you to fold preflop.

It looks llike he may well have AK spades here.

[YesMehFriend]

As others have already mentioned I don't expect JJ/QQ to fold. If he knew you're a rather good player, he'd expect a rr pf with KK/AA.
Moreover your line looks inconsistent - you bet less than have the pot on a blank turn but 3/4 on a blank river? Imo you should make it at least 7 on the turn. And if villain thinks on a higher level, he'd expect you to bet less on the river with AA/KK since you want value from JJ/QQ.

[jld102281]

You said you bet the turn bet with the hopes of AK folding and folding when he pushes all in. You missed one key thought. What about when he cold calls as he did. You have to know what you plan to do when the player calls. Most successful bluffs arent decided on the river. You have to set up a bluff. You should have set the bluff up on the turn. Then followed through on the river. If you are indeed playing a thinking player then you have to think a lil deeper as well. One step farther than what he is likely thinking. I would read this, as others have already done, as inconsistant with the betting pattern.
I do think, however the turn bet is a good one. Not for a bluff on the river but as a half value bet half blocking bet. The board is draw heavy. A good player might very well call the turn bet with AK reading your turn bet as a semibluff with any number of draws or a lower pair. His AK might very well be the best hand. When he checks the river, which he will likely do if he hits an ace or a king, you can check behind. I find the turn bet to be very good for this purpose. I dont like the river bluff though. He is not folding any overpair IMO based on the play.

[creamfillin]

So what are you repping here exactly? This reeks of whiffed draw. Both a good player and a bad player would look you up here with JJ+. You flat call a wet flop - a good player would put you on a draw/mid over pair. No one at this level folds an overpair to this bet. If he folded it looks more like an AK peeling to your week-sauce turn bet.

[kewl_cph]

Is this a high stakes bluff or am I just retarded?

Trying to represent AK obv.

Villian is unknown since I'm new to the table.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $46
Hero: $50
CO: $76
Button: $32.30
SB: $27.95
BB: $46.20

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2.5</font>, 4 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif ($5.75, 2 players)
UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $4.5</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($14.75, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($14.75, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $5.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in $43</font>

[creamfillin]

retarded, you're risking way too much to win way to little, you're getting looked up by a 9/2 pair like every time

[Unknown Soldier]

bad, check turn and river

[YesMehFriend]

[ QUOTE ]
bad, check turn and river

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do we check the turn? Will whiffed hands bluff the river?
Will better hands check? (these questions are not rhetorical! I really don't know ...)

I'd assume villain could easily hold AK/AQ etc since we opened from the btn and a bet might get them to fold. But can we really hope he'll bluff the river with a worse hand and check the turn for that reason? ...

[ama0330]

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bad, check turn and river

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