25nl, 3bet pf, donked into

[ShipitFMA]

<font color="blue">He has just sat down, his fourth hand at the table i have no previous hands on him</font>


Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $5.25
BB: $19.64
UTG: $25.85
MP: $25.00
CO: $23.75
Hero (BTN): $85.97

Preflop: Hero is dealt J/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 Players)
2 folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $0.75</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2.15</font>, 2 folds, CO calls $1.40

Flop: ($4.65) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">CO bets $3.00</font> Hero??

<font color="red">How do you guys play this, and why?</font>

I will be posting how i played the hand after some responses come through

[apple11]

Raise you already rep'd a big hand preflop and need to up the pressure by following through on the flop repping a big overpair

[ShipitFMA]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise you already rep'd a big hand preflop and need to up the pressure by following through on the flop repping a big overpair

[/ QUOTE ]


Are we calling a shove if we raise to 8 or 9 ?
- Do you raise bigger to somewhat commit yourself to his shove

What do we put villian on here

[Genz]

This bet is a bluff-donk most of the times because the board is very low and 2-tone and paired. If you raise here, I think he will fold in 75% of the cases. And I think I call a push. The way he played it, he has something like 66,77,88 and we have 15 outs against that. Worst case is JJ, QQ, KK, AK obv. With KK he tried to outsmart us, obv. But we still have very good odds against each of these hands. So you aren't far behind.

[Genz]

and btw: I raise to 11 or 12 here. Make it close to pot size.

[HighSteaks]

Taking into account that he only has $23 I think he reraises tens and above preflop, so you might have a heap of outs. I reraise to at least $10 and commit him to his stack.

[cooker3]

Raise and call any push. You will nearly certainly have about 15 outs most of the time

[Genz]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise and call any push.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's only sensible when you raise him a decent amount, fwiw. If you minraise him and he pushes, the odds don't look that great. If you raise to 12 and he pushes his last 17 in, it's a call as easy as it gets.

[matrix]

he has ~$18 left in his stack after his flop bet. I make it $10 (leaving him to call $8 i.e. just less than half his remaining stack.

Call any push.

He has an overpair/overcards/set/air vs that range we are a coinflip here and there is 30BB of dead money in the pot.

It might even be better to just push OTT of his donkbet, which will get called less often (Only made hands are calling) and steal the pot more often.

[Genz]

[ QUOTE ]
It might even be better to just push OTT of his donkbet, which will get called less often (Only made hands are calling) and steal the pot more often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since he will call with the big hands that have us in a not-so-good shape anyway and we are a favorite against the smaller PPs with our 15 outs and a huge favorite over smaller flushdraws, I don't really want to steal the pot from those hands. I rather call his push (although it might be high variance). In so far, his pushing range is certainly wider than his calling range.

[ShipitFMA]

Okay, what do we if these spots come up;

Flop: ($4.65) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">CO bets $3.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $10.00</font>, CO calls $7.00


1) Turn: ($24.65) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
CO checks Hero??

2) Turn: ($24.65) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
CO shoves $11 Hero??

3) Turn: ($24.65) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
CO checks Hero??

[Genz]

1) check behind. We have outs and little fold equity due to pot:stack-ratio.
2) bet him all-in.
3) as 1. He won't believe a str8.

[matrix]

shove (we are 30/70 dog when called - but he folds quite a lot as he rarely holds a 9 here so that can't of helped him, we have a draw not a made hand there is no way we can bluff him on the river if we check behind and our hand turns into A high so it makes sense to try and win this pot while we have outs and the price is very good.)

call.

shove, same as the first hand - but with more outs.

Our FE is very low, but the times he does fold we make lots of Sklansky bucks as villain just madea huge FTOP mistake.

Sometimes we are ahead, and when we are behind we aren't worse than ~30/70 vs his range - the pot is ~$25 and if all the chips go in we'd be getting 3.2:1 we need ~2.3:1 to be +EV

[crovax4444]

anyone raising to at least $3 PF?

Crovax

[Genz]

I obv. misread the action in 2). It's an easy call. I like matrix' reasoning for 1) + 3).

[Hoopster81]

all-in

[ama0330]

You can't raise this spot as a bluff because you can't expect him to fold any overpair, even 99 is going to put you on AK. If you push it should be for value, and given that there is a good chance you have two overcards and the NFD, you have 15 outs. Thats good enough for me to push here, we have like 48% equity or something, so if you can take the variance, bombs away.

[ShipitFMA]

[ QUOTE ]
anyone raising to at least $3 PF?

Crovax

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah i was thinking about this, but i didn't really want to bloat the pot too much, only his 4th hand at the table + he only raises 3BB's. To alot of the players a 3bet is a 3bet, regardless of size, i figure this 3bet has the same effect as a $3+ 3bet.