Barry Greenstein Bet Agaisnt Eli Elezra Good or bad Odds? [Archive]

jah7_fsu1

06-17-2007, 12:08 AM

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this would have to void barrys bet i would think...i bet eli is gonna pay scotty off for the bracelet

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If this is true, this kind of makes a mockery of the event doesn't it? When you have to take breaks to make deals with the two players who are heads up to figure everything out. Let whatever happens happens and then pay, don't cheapen the HU action or throw anything. Lame.

chicken10der

06-17-2007, 12:09 AM

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How much did they bet?

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According to pokernews, it seems to be $25k. Elezra won, so Barry owes him $250k, which was more than 1st place paid.

jman220

06-17-2007, 12:15 AM

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How much did they bet?

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According to pokernews, it seems to be $25k. Elezra won, so Barry owes him $250k, which was more than 1st place paid.

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Did Elezra actually win or was it a deal?

Jooka

06-17-2007, 12:15 AM

LISceneSucks

06-17-2007, 12:24 AM

from some of the hands posted it really did look like scotty threw it...especially considering how bad he was spanking him before the deal break

Injection

06-17-2007, 12:33 AM

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from some of the hands posted it really did look like scotty threw it...especially considering how bad he was spanking him before the deal break

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I thought that might've been the case right after the break too, the first couple of hands looked kinda suspicious. Scotty did make a comeback afterwards but who knows what the plan was between the two. It wouldn't be hard to keep the charade going for awhile.

Why aren't they allowed to discuss deals at the table anyway? It's perfectly acceptable online and I don't see the harm in it. The fact they were willing to discuss it at the table makes it look better, but if it's a known rule to not discuss deals, it again could be a cover for throwing the bracelet.

Phresh

06-17-2007, 12:34 AM

I'd lay 503095676276:1 against him winning anything.

Injection

06-17-2007, 12:42 AM

From Pokernews.com

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This is Eli Elezra's first WSOP bracelet, and before today, he was one of the best poker players in the world without one on his resume. That can't be said anymore.

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LOL. When I saw the chipcounts today I was like "Holy [censored] Eli made a FT... HOLY [censored] HE'S THE CHIPLEADER.."
I still wouldn't lay 10/1 at the start of today's FT (although it looked like he'd still have his work cut-out with some of those names) but it's def an ez bet for Barry before today, and I think he did make it before the WSOP.

ericicecream

06-17-2007, 12:46 AM

I'd lay 10-1 that Eli Elezra winning a bracelet is a misprint

jman220

06-17-2007, 12:47 AM

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I'd lay 10-1 that Eli Elezra winning a bracelet is a misprint

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I'll take that bet.

bottomset

06-17-2007, 12:49 AM

is it possible that he's just really bad at NLHE any may not be at other games?

LonesomeFugitive

06-17-2007, 12:56 AM

He did win a WPT, how bad can the guy be? ok so he looks bad on tv nl cash games but then again so does Hellmuth but it doesn't mean he isn't a winner at other forms of poker (tournament, limit etc)

MitchL

06-17-2007, 12:57 AM

A. Pretty sure he won a 10k WPT event a couple years ago.
B. Skill is not necessary to win a NLHE tournament.

Nick Rainey

06-17-2007, 01:04 AM

Can anyone find any info on whether or not Eli invented the one hour photo? Thats what I have heard from a few people.

bottomset

06-17-2007, 01:06 AM

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Can anyone find any info on whether or not Eli invented the one hour photo? Thats what I have heard from a few people.

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doesn't show up on IDMB so probably not

Jooka

06-17-2007, 01:08 AM

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Can anyone find any info on whether or not Eli invented the one hour photo? Thats what I have heard from a few people.

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I remember on his wpt win they mentioned he owns a bunch of stores/businesses in Vegas. Didnt mention anything about 1 hour photos.

Tyler Durden

06-17-2007, 01:19 AM

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Can anyone find any info on whether or not Eli invented the one hour photo? Thats what I have heard from a few people.

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I remember on his wpt win they mentioned he owns a bunch of stores/businesses in Vegas. Didnt mention anything about 1 hour photos.

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I heard he bought the technology for the one-hour photo and was one of the first to offer it.

06-17-2007, 01:19 AM

Injection

06-17-2007, 01:30 AM

Eli also invented the concept of a lightbulb representing a good idea.

chicken10der

06-17-2007, 01:33 AM

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Can anyone find any info on whether or not Eli invented the one hour photo? Thats what I have heard from a few people.

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I remember on his wpt win they mentioned he owns a bunch of stores/businesses in Vegas. Didnt mention anything about 1 hour photos.

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I heard he bought the technology for the one-hour photo and was one of the first to offer it.

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You are all mistaken. He patented the 2p2 film roll avatar.

Injection

06-17-2007, 01:38 AM

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Can anyone find any info on whether or not Eli invented the one hour photo? Thats what I have heard from a few people.

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I remember on his wpt win they mentioned he owns a bunch of stores/businesses in Vegas. Didnt mention anything about 1 hour photos.

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I heard he bought the technology for the one-hour photo and was one of the first to offer it.

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You are all mistaken. He patented the 2p2 film roll avatar.

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Wow no wonder he's so rich, he'd have to be making a killing on the royalties for that thing.

What's the story behind that anyway? Is there a thread somewhere about it? Some kind of cult perhaps? Bot sweatshop?

Yuv

06-17-2007, 01:40 AM

Elezra is one scary ass guy. I wouldn't mess with the jewish mafia.

CandaceT1984

06-17-2007, 02:19 AM

Barry will def. pay. From the times I've talked to him, I've def. gotten the impression that prop bets, Eli's sort of behavior i.e. the deal making is accepted. It's a loop hole and he found it. Now Barry has to pay up. Which I'm almost certain he will.

captZEEbo

06-17-2007, 02:29 AM

wtf how can deal making be allowed in this bet?

shaniac

06-17-2007, 02:34 AM

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wtf how can deal making be allowed in this bet?

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It usually can't be, but who knows what they agreed to beforehand between Barry and Eli. Maybe Barry can inform us.

Also, lol @ everyone acting all shocked that Eli is winning a bracelet. He's probably pretty good at poker, even if he's a "fish at the highest levels," and I'd say 10-1 was a great price for Eli (bad bet for Barry), especially if deal making was allowed in the bet.

Tofu_boy

06-17-2007, 02:40 AM

This really look bad for the game..
Hand #171 - There is a pause after fourth street so the two players can take a drink, tapping their cups together.

Elezra (3-8-2-K) and Nguyen (4-9-3-A) take it to sixth street, and Elezra helps Nguyen bet -- by reaching over and putting Nguyen's chips in the pot. Elezra then raises, and Nguyen calls all in.

seemlike they just having fun..

sc000t

06-17-2007, 02:47 AM

Wow this deal convo would be extremely interesting. I'm not familiar with big mtt live deals, but always wondered what/if a ME deal would be like where you would factor in possible deals with poker sites/other companies and stuff like that.

Also, considering Eli a "fish" is a huge miscalulation IMHO. Never met the guy or played with him. I would think that he would play enough poker (like alot of us here) vs. regular pros that he would take it just as serious as we do. Not to mention the time he puts in with arguably the top players in the world on a dailey basis in a mixed game format. I think Barry's deal was good...ANd would be a good bet against anyone in the world, let alone Eli. BUT, for the amount of money Eli supposably has, and the amount of poker her plays (POKER...not just NLHE MTTs) that he would enter enough WSOP events and have a decent shot at winning a bracelt in say a 5-10 year span.

But 10:1 on a single year is still not the right price. And since im a book maker (which i'm not) I'd take prices like this for next year if people want action. Also, its funny that I wouldn't even wager 10:1 on say, Ivey/DN winning bracelts in a single year, but if someone would mention a TOP mtt player...someone that could/would play alot of WSOP events and not just NLHE, I would have to think twice about taking that action, but probably still would.

LISceneSucks

06-17-2007, 02:54 AM

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Also, its funny that I wouldn't even wager 10:1 on say, Ivey/DN winning bracelts in a single year, but if someone would mention a TOP mtt player...someone that could/would play alot of WSOP events and not just NLHE, I would have to think twice about taking that action, but probably still would.

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how could you not take 10:1 on ivey or negreanu??? you really think theyll go 10 years without winning a bracelet??? ivey is probably 3:1 and DN is probably 4:1

you gotta take into account them playing every game and every tourney they can

with that said...eli does not have same tourney results and may be close to 10:1...but i think if he played huge number of events he would get it done...the deal imo is unethical unless previously discussed between him and barry

BackedUp

06-17-2007, 03:10 AM

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I'd lay 503095676276:1 against him winning anything.

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you're on, put me down for 10 bucks

TStoneMBD

06-17-2007, 03:15 AM

i played with eli quite a bit in this event and hes no stud8 expert.

when we got down to 2 tables this hand took place:

a player opened in ep with a 7, eli called with a queen with a few low cards behind him including an ace. i had split aces and smoothcalled. on 4th i caught an 8, the 7 caught an ace and eli bricked. we all checked. on 5th both me and the A7 caught a king. i bet and the AK7 raised. eli tanked forever and when he finally folded he showed his hand and proudly remarked about the great laydown he just made. of course we both had split aces and even i knew eli's split queens couldnt beat the opponent who raised and hed have to have the case ace in the deck to be ahead since i have the other two.

if you know anything about stud8 you know that eli looks like a huge fish in this hand.

i wouldnt classify him as a huge fish though. hes very aggressive and has good poker sense which is common for people who have super high stakes experience as they learn alot of excellent skills from great players. he was definitely +ev in this tournament, but hes certainly not some great player.

10:1 seems like a very good bet for greenstein, and you could argue that greenstein is the favorite just by looking at the two parties that made the bet. whos more likely to be the favorite in a prop bet between these 2 guys? besides, eli is unlikely to play many events, and even if he played 30 hed need a >50% ROI to be +EV in this bet, which may be doable for him but i doubt hes going to play that many events, especially since tournaments like the 50k horse are 5 day events.

sc000t

06-17-2007, 03:30 AM

LIS,

I was talking about 10:1 for a SINGLE YEAR at WSOP for ivey/dn. BUT TBH, I think 5 years for Ivey OR DN to win a a WSOP event would still maaaaaaaaaaaaybe be a bad bet. I know the guys are good. And I know they play alot of events, and easier ones to win at that. Its much easier to win a stud8/ horse mtt when its limit and there isn't a billion people playing. But to be the number one player out of these fields is still a long shot regardless of skill.

Basically, all things equal in the 5 years, thats giving 2:1 on any single year at one of them pulling in a bracelet. I would gladly bet $1, $10, $100, $1,000 or $10,000 on any given person winning a brecelet in a single year @ 2:1.

EDIT: Also, TS makes a good point. Something that I didnt know. About Eli NOT playing many events, I was thinking he would play alot, just for the reason that he likes to play poker, has yet to win a wsop and has enough time and money on his hand to play all these events. Plus, the 50k horse event taking a so many days to finish (assuming he is in it past the first or second day) would kill his chances. ON TOP OF ALL THIS THO, 2:1 is a great deal for barry....let alot 10:1. AND barry has got to have better reasoning when it comes to making +EV prop bets on this sort of thing. amIright?

pig4bill

06-17-2007, 03:58 AM

Eli has said in interviews that he plays tournaments completely differently than cash games. He plays much looser in cash games because he can re-load if he busts.

RubbishCards

06-17-2007, 04:01 AM

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i bet and the AK7 raised. eli tanked forever and when he finally folded he showed his hand and proudly remarked about the great laydown he just made

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Am I misreading the action or did he expose his hole cards when he folded with action still pending on 5th and 2 more betting rounds to go? Or was one of you all in?

xxThe_Lebowskixx

06-17-2007, 04:14 AM

MARIO ELLIE FTW

TStoneMBD

06-17-2007, 04:38 AM

sorry rubbish, yes i was allin, but the other guy had alot of chips. eli had split queens with no redraw for the record.

bones

06-17-2007, 04:42 AM

Given that the bet paid out more than 1st, it's a virtual certainty that dealmaking was permitted in the barry/eli bet. Otherwise he'd be a huge moron to even consider making a deal, regardless of chip position.

Maybe there was some clause in the bet where he only got paid 7:1 or whatever if a deal was made.

Gobias Ind.

06-17-2007, 05:09 AM

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Barry lay 10-1 bet against Eli to win a bracelet, and it's about to happen with Eli hold 11-3 chips lead Over scotty Nguyen..
How you think of that 10-1 odds???

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If John Mellencamp ever wins an Oscar, I'm gonna be a very rich man

http://a811.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/1/l_bdf1e8445387599c2b433fa0fd421212.jpg

KSOT

06-17-2007, 07:45 AM

Given how important bracelets are in the poker world these days, I'd be very surprised if Scotty N threw the tourney.

Maybe Eli made him an offer he couldn't refuse...

Taso

06-17-2007, 08:07 AM

lol

Is Scotty really that tight for money that he'd make a deal here? you see this guy bust out of a tournament, all he wants is to win it looks like. I know money is important, but I'd think with the top superstars, it becomes more about the bracelts.

samsdmf

06-17-2007, 08:39 AM

menacing_1

06-17-2007, 11:55 AM

My guess would be that if there was a deal, it was to chop first and second place money (about $155,000 each) and play for the bracelet. Mention of a possible deal was made when they were fairly even in chips. These two know each other well and have for many years. The bracelet was probably important to them both...it was Eli's first and would have been Scotty's 5th, and there are only 14 living players who have won 5 or more, so Scotty would have joined some elite company had he won.

Dali25

06-17-2007, 12:47 PM

Interesting article:

Final Thoughts
Once this event got heads up, it turned into a carnival atmosphere. The drinks were flying as quickly as the cards, and at times, the players didn't seem overly interested in the outcome.

While Eli Elezra won nearly $200,000 in prize money, he made much more with the side action. He specifically mentioned a bet with Barry Greenstein -- Greenstein put him at 10-to-1 to win a bracelet this year, and Elezra bet $25,000. Elezra can now collect the $250,000, and during his interview he said, "I'm sorry, Barry Greenstein. I got you, baby!"

Elezra mentioned additional side action which might take his total earnings to $500,000 -- plus the paltry $200,000 of "official" prize money.

This is Eli Elezra's first WSOP bracelet, and before today, he was one of the best poker players in the world without one on his resume. That can't be said anymore.

highhustla

06-17-2007, 01:07 PM

yeah so Greenstein's odds were fine, as long as he can verify Scotty didn't throw it . . . ?

David Sklansky

06-17-2007, 01:32 PM

I'm going to try to find out what happened. My guess is that Eli and Barry settled beore any deals were made.

arcdog

06-17-2007, 01:43 PM

sc000t, you're talking about a bad bet there. If I bet on Ivey and take the 10:1 odds each and every year, all he has to do is win a single bracelet every ten years for me to make money. So, you see how taking the other side of that is a bad gamble?

Sure, you'd likely win the bet in a given year, but you are laying waaaaaay too much. Its not even close. I'd say about 2.5 to 1 is as far as you should be willing to go.

menacing_1

06-17-2007, 02:11 PM

I remember last year David Grey had a bet at 4:1 with Erik Seidel that John Juanda wouldn't win a bracelet in any event in 2006. The bet was for $100,000. Juanda didn't win, and Grey collected $100k.

vhawk01

06-17-2007, 02:46 PM

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LIS,

I was talking about 10:1 for a SINGLE YEAR at WSOP for ivey/dn. BUT TBH, I think 5 years for Ivey OR DN to win a a WSOP event would still maaaaaaaaaaaaybe be a bad bet. I know the guys are good. And I know they play alot of events, and easier ones to win at that. Its much easier to win a stud8/ horse mtt when its limit and there isn't a billion people playing. But to be the number one player out of these fields is still a long shot regardless of skill.

Basically, all things equal in the 5 years, thats giving 2:1 on any single year at one of them pulling in a bracelet. I would gladly bet $1, $10, $100, $1,000 or $10,000 on any given person winning a brecelet in a single year @ 2:1.

EDIT: Also, TS makes a good point. Something that I didnt know. About Eli NOT playing many events, I was thinking he would play alot, just for the reason that he likes to play poker, has yet to win a wsop and has enough time and money on his hand to play all these events. Plus, the 50k horse event taking a so many days to finish (assuming he is in it past the first or second day) would kill his chances. ON TOP OF ALL THIS THO, 2:1 is a great deal for barry....let alot 10:1. AND barry has got to have better reasoning when it comes to making +EV prop bets on this sort of thing. amIright?

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LOL you suck at gambling. 10:1 on him winning a bracelet this year is roughly analogous to "do you think he will win a bracelet in the next 10 years?" Its not exactly the same, but your next statement about how "heck he might not even win one in the next five years".....hahahahaha.

Rekwob

06-17-2007, 03:56 PM

whats to stop barry giving scotty financial incentive to win when they get heads up as well? they're not idiots, this will have come up and be pretty much a non issue

LISceneSucks

06-17-2007, 03:56 PM

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lol

Is Scotty really that tight for money that he'd make a deal here? you see this guy bust out of a tournament, all he wants is to win it looks like. I know money is important, but I'd think with the top superstars, it becomes more about the bracelts.

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scotty said in an inverview that he hasnt played a cash game in 2 years...also...all his income is coming from the cherokee casino in tulsa...they put him in every tournament so his fees are covered...he doesnt seem to have that much money so im sure if eli offered him 100-200K he would take it...the bracelet is going to do much for his popularity as he is already as known as most players

KSOT

06-17-2007, 05:19 PM

Just as long as Sean Sheikhan never wins a bracelet...

PokrLikeItsProse

06-17-2007, 05:52 PM

Isn't the story that Larry Flynt got banned from the WSOP back in the day because he tried to buy off his opponents with a few tables left in order to win a prop bet with Doyle Brunson on whether or not he would win a bracelet? Or do I misremember?

Ship Ship McGipp

06-17-2007, 06:07 PM

you guys kjnow eli is bad right

jshronk

06-17-2007, 06:10 PM

Eli talks about the bet and also about how he loves our coverage so far in an interview in this gallery:

http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/video-gallery/?t=33&e=129

Tofu_boy

06-17-2007, 08:02 PM

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whats to stop barry giving scotty financial incentive to win when they get heads up as well? they're not idiots, this will have come up and be pretty much a non issue

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What Barry have to Offer Scotty here? The most he can get is 25k. Beside deal to lose the game so much easier than deal to win it.

TheGrasshopper

06-17-2007, 08:26 PM

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Eli has said in interviews that he plays tournaments completely differently than cash games. He plays much looser in cash games because he can re-load if he busts.

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Given the hand that TS explained and watching him on HSP, I doubt he is capable of changing his game from what it is.

We all know those people who say play the player but don't know the first thing about applying it to their game.

David Sklansky

06-17-2007, 10:10 PM

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I'm going to try to find out what happened. My guess is that Eli and Barry settled beore any deals were made.

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I got it about right. Barry gave me permission to say that. He may or may not elaborate.

mo42nyy

06-17-2007, 11:04 PM

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Isn't the story that Larry Flynt got banned from the WSOP back in the day because he tried to buy off his opponents with a few tables left in order to win a prop bet with Doyle Brunson on whether or not he would win a bracelet? Or do I misremember?

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yea but he was buying chips from his opponents for cash

btmagnetw

06-18-2007, 09:19 AM

lol @ everyone ignoring sklansky's attempt to add content to this thread. 1-1 DS starts a new thread titled "I Was Pretty Much Right About The Barry/Eli Bet"

grdred944

06-18-2007, 12:20 PM

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from some of the hands posted it really did look like scotty threw it...especially considering how bad he was spanking him before the deal break

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Sad, if true. I hope the board gives Eli at least the same sh*t they did Liz Lieu when she bought a tournament win awhile (a year ago?) back.

grdred944

06-18-2007, 12:28 PM

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...all his income is coming from the cherokee casino in tulsa...they put him in every tournament so his fees are covered...

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When he was on Casino Diaries, Scotty told us he has to feed like half the boat people in Henderson (OK, maybe 14). I'm sure he would be interested in any deal that Eli came up with.