3/6 KTs - River Play?

[dynamite]

Pretty new to table, no real reads yet. Seems to be pretty standard as far as I have seen.

3/6 Limit Hold Em


Hero is UTG +1 with K/images/graemlins/club.gifT/images/graemlins/club.gif

Preflop:
UTG folds, Hero calls, UTG+2 raises, 5 folds, SB calls, BB calls, Hero calls

Flop:
T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif2/images/graemlins/spade.gif3/images/graemlins/spade.gif
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, SB Calls, BB Calls.

Turn:
K/images/graemlins/spade.gif
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, SB calls, BB folds.

River: J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
SB Checks, Hero....?

Assuming that the SB doesn't all of a sudden wake up and checkraise, I'm really interested in knowing which of the following three lines you would takes here: Check/call, bet/fold, or bet/call a raise from UTG+2.

[WLVRYN]

I probably would have checked the flop with the intention of raising when UTG+2 bets.

I would bet/call a raise from UTG+2. I'm not laying down two pair here. Doubtful that there's a flush out there since I would guess you would have gotten raised/check raised on the turn. JJ is a possibility for him, but even then I would have expected a raise on the flop when you bet. The only other hand that UTG+2 has that's worrisome to me is KJ, but I'm not sure that's worth a raise from EP preflop.

[callmedonnie]

Looks like a pretty easy bet on the river to me. If you bet the river that makes the pot 10 bets. I'm inclined to call a river raise here.

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming that the SB doesn't all of a sudden wake up and checkraise

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm inclined to call him there too.

[Niediam]

Easy bet. Easy call if you are raised.

[hero]

agreed, easy bet, fearing the AQ or jj more then KJ but i'm calling a raise too. i think he was flop betting into the pfr with the intention of using his raise to thin the field, as i'd prefer this to c/raising and keeping the limpers in

[stinkpaw]

[ QUOTE ]
agreed, easy bet, fearing the AQ or jj more then KJ but i'm calling a raise too.

[/ QUOTE ]

What worse hands do you think are calling here?

More importantly, what worse hands do you think would RAISE you here?

[bobhalford]

I fold preflop.

[Poet MP]

I'd play this preflop. On the river, I'd bet and call a raise, no question. I'm not fearing a flush or gutshot straight. If that's what he shows, so be it.

[hero]

hands that utg pfr would call: AA/QQ/AK/AJs/ATs
hands that sb would call: T9/JT/AsT/KQ/
hands that would raise that we beat: (misplayed) AA/AK/JT

i like your reasoning with hand ranges but i feel like we're ahead here bc nobody's showing agression. so whats your line, check-call the pf raiser?, then we're overcalling when the sb calls? preflop is marginal but 4-way closing the action i'd call here.

[dynamite]

Thanks everyone. I did bet the river, UTG+2 raised, SB folded, I called. UTG+2 shows AQo. I thought betting the river was correct because AK and KQ pay off as well as a possible overcall from a worse hand in the SB. I didn't know if I should fold to the river raise against an unknown opponent.

[TStoneMBD]

raise preflop. since you didnt, checkraise this flop. please dont donkbet.

[lxdx]

I like limping KTs from early position at a lot of tables. It plays well multiway, sucks to play against a 3-bet, or even against most decent players' cold-calls when OOP. I definitely raise sometimes, too, but far from always.

I also like the flop lead, because I expect the PFR'r to face the blinds with 2. The board is 2-flushed, and any A,J, or Q turn is much easier to deal with heads up.

[WalkAmongUs]

those advocating a flop check-raise:

if UTG+2 bets and SB and BB call, what purpose does a check-raise have? it doesn't knock anyone out and just bloats the pot for people to get odds to call the turn.

i thought betting out in the hope that UTG+2 raises to face the field with 2 cold is the best course of action to protect your hand.

[jskills]

Bet / call.

[Mr.K]

[ QUOTE ]
I probably would have checked the flop with the intention of raising when UTG+2 bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I nearly screamed when you said this. I don't like your proposed line at all... maybe someone else has already said that. We bloat the pot when we do this at a time when we definitely do not want to do so. We want UTG+2 to raise after we bet to protect our hand. We sure as hell do not want him checking it through, and we don't want him to bet, sb/bb to call, us to raise, and then have them all call. Notice that this would have SB and BB calling one bet at a time. No goot.

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet/call a raise from UTG+2. I'm not laying down two pair here. Doubtful that there's a flush out there since I would guess you would have gotten raised/check raised on the turn. JJ is a possibility for him, but even then I would have expected a raise on the flop when you bet. The only other hand that UTG+2 has that's worrisome to me is KJ, but I'm not sure that's worth a raise from EP preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet/call if the raise is from UTG+2. Bet/fold if it is from SB. Your bet is for value, and the pot will be sufficiently large to call down if raised on the end by UTG+2. He could have QQ, AK, AJ, or any number of other hands that you beat... all probably containing a single high spade.

[Mr.K]

[ QUOTE ]
raise preflop. since you didnt, checkraise this flop. please dont donkbet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I generally agree, but this seems to be an exception to me. See above post as to why. C/R serves little purpose here. Other than "donkbetting sucks," what is your hand-specific reason for advocating a flop C/R here?