ladies event wsop

[suzy89222]

i'm an idiot. i'm really pissed at myself. i just busted out about 30 away from cashing. had about average chips (around 18k) until this stupid hand. blinds 400 and 800, 100 ante.

utg limps, mp limps, im on button i limp with Ac9s. flop is 5 handed.

flop 9c8c5s, checked to utg. utg bets 3k. mp folds, i think about raising, but dont, i just call. the two behind me were clearly folding (they practically did out of turn). i thought i'd wait to see what she does on the turn.

turn 5d. she bets 3k, i call.

river 10d. she checks, i think i have the best hand by the way she checked and bet 5k (but took a long time to bet), she raises me all in and i am down to 5k left so i call. i thought maybe since i took so long to bet, that she was knew i didnt have a great hand and would try to bluff.

she had not been at my table long and i had no real reads except she was old (like 65) and didnt seem completely clueless (like most in the tournament).

how horrible did i play this on a scale of 1 to 10?

[Ansky]

I think you played it ok until calling the river c/r. I feel like there is no way you can be good here.

Oh and also folding pf is fine as well, the call is very much dependant on the way the table played post flop.

[suzy89222]

yeah i just really didnt expect a tricky checkraise from a white haired lady, i thought my 9 was good. the way she checked on the river made me think she had a not so great hand(was thinking a 9 worse kicker) again, the only reason i called is because i took a very long time to bet the river and i thought she could have a busted draw (although i knew it was unlikely).

also, i only called preflop because mp and the bb were HORRIBLE, but a9off is crap and i probably should have folded it.

i am most mad at myself for not raising the flop or the turn.

[timex]

If they could be limping good hands up front like 88, JJ etc, fold preflop, if not, shove over the turn bet.

[Irish Mafia]

[ QUOTE ]
how horrible did i play this on a scale of 1 to 10?

[/ QUOTE ]

I give it a 9.5 (if 10 is the "worst" you could have played)

First of all, limping w/ A-9 off is just spewing chips. I guess I could see you raising these limpers if you haven't been too out of line, but why limp w/ this type of hand? Second of all, I hate your valuebet on the river. What do you think is calling you that you beat? A-high? a pair of 8's? AS played I would've been ecstatic that the old woman didn't put me to the test w/ a big river bet and gleefuly check behind.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how horrible did i play this on a scale of 1 to 10?

[/ QUOTE ]

I give it a 9.5 (if 10 is the "worst" you could have played)

First of all, limping w/ A-9 off is just spewing chips. I guess I could see you raising these limpers if you haven't been too out of line, but why limp w/ this type of hand? Second of all, I hate your valuebet on the river. What do you think is calling you that you beat? A-high? a pair of 8's? AS played I would've been ecstatic that the old woman didn't put me to the test w/ a big river bet and gleefuly check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]


Who wants to bet that Ivey, Negreanu and Hellmuth all limp here? I would say at least 2/3 (maybe all 3) do and ok they aren't terrible at poker. But zero chance in a billion years that Ivey or Negreanu fold there.

That doesn't mean I'd play it, but it's ridiculous to call it pure spew when many of the best players in the world would call without a second thought.

[timex]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how horrible did i play this on a scale of 1 to 10?

[/ QUOTE ]

I give it a 9.5 (if 10 is the "worst" you could have played)

First of all, limping w/ A-9 off is just spewing chips. I guess I could see you raising these limpers if you haven't been too out of line, but why limp w/ this type of hand? Second of all, I hate your valuebet on the river. What do you think is calling you that you beat? A-high? a pair of 8's? AS played I would've been ecstatic that the old woman didn't put me to the test w/ a big river bet and gleefuly check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]


Who wants to bet that Ivey, Negreanu and Hellmuth all limp here? I would say at least 2/3 (maybe all 3) do and ok they aren't terrible at poker. But zero chance in a billion years that Ivey or Negreanu fold there.

That doesn't mean I'd play it, but it's ridiculous to call it pure spew when many of the best players in the world would call without a second thought.

[/ QUOTE ]


Agreed

Also, if 1 is a noticeably bad play, 10 is a monstrosity, this is like a 2.

[Irish Mafia]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how horrible did i play this on a scale of 1 to 10?

[/ QUOTE ]

I give it a 9.5 (if 10 is the "worst" you could have played)

First of all, limping w/ A-9 off is just spewing chips. I guess I could see you raising these limpers if you haven't been too out of line, but why limp w/ this type of hand? Second of all, I hate your valuebet on the river. What do you think is calling you that you beat? A-high? a pair of 8's? AS played I would've been ecstatic that the old woman didn't put me to the test w/ a big river bet and gleefuly check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]


Who wants to bet that Ivey, Negreanu and Hellmuth all limp here? I would say at least 2/3 (maybe all 3) do and ok they aren't terrible at poker. But zero chance in a billion years that Ivey or Negreanu fold there.

That doesn't mean I'd play it, but it's ridiculous to call it pure spew when many of the best players in the world would call without a second thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm, Daniel is acting after two limpers - neither of which he has a read on. He's sitting on an "M" of 8.5 or so. You're probably right that he limps w/ A-9 off-suit hoping that neither of the blinds raises, and that he can simply "outplay" 4 other players post-flop w/ terrible hand. Probably a good spot to limp.

[suzy89222]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how horrible did i play this on a scale of 1 to 10?

[/ QUOTE ]

I give it a 9.5 (if 10 is the "worst" you could have played)

First of all, limping w/ A-9 off is just spewing chips. I guess I could see you raising these limpers if you haven't been too out of line, but why limp w/ this type of hand? Second of all, I hate your valuebet on the river. What do you think is calling you that you beat? A-high? a pair of 8's? AS played I would've been ecstatic that the old woman didn't put me to the test w/ a big river bet and gleefuly check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

i thought she would call me with a worse 9. like i said, i really thought the way she checked it (a weird movement with her hand), that she didnt have a very good hand. obviously it was a bad read. she had 10 8.

[suzy89222]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how horrible did i play this on a scale of 1 to 10?

[/ QUOTE ]

I give it a 9.5 (if 10 is the "worst" you could have played)

First of all, limping w/ A-9 off is just spewing chips. I guess I could see you raising these limpers if you haven't been too out of line, but why limp w/ this type of hand? Second of all, I hate your valuebet on the river. What do you think is calling you that you beat? A-high? a pair of 8's? AS played I would've been ecstatic that the old woman didn't put me to the test w/ a big river bet and gleefuly check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]


Who wants to bet that Ivey, Negreanu and Hellmuth all limp here? I would say at least 2/3 (maybe all 3) do and ok they aren't terrible at poker. But zero chance in a billion years that Ivey or Negreanu fold there.

That doesn't mean I'd play it, but it's ridiculous to call it pure spew when many of the best players in the world would call without a second thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm, Daniel is acting after two limpers - neither of which he has a read on. He's sitting on an "M" of 8.5 or so. You're probably right that he limps w/ A-9 off-suit hoping that neither of the blinds raises, and that he can simply "outplay" 4 other players post-flop w/ terrible hand. Probably a good spot to limp.

[/ QUOTE ]

i never said i didnt have a read on either of them. i just said utg that i didnt. i said that mp was HORRENDOUS, and that influenced my call. not defending it though, i think i probably should have folded.

[Irish Mafia]

Edit - whether or not Daniel Negreanu can limp here I believe is irrelevant for the OP, as it should to most posters here. He is incredibly creative and a brilliant hand-reader. So the fact that he can limp w/ bad hands I don't think should influence advice you give to someone else who is newer to tournaments.

[suzy89222]

yes im newer to tournaments, but compared to most of the ladies i played with today, i was not at all. they were generally EXTREMELY inexperienced. ive been playing poker for 9 years (6 as a pro). not nl tournaments though. not trying to say im good, just saying in comparison. i know that's hard to believe seeing how i played this hand.

[Irish Mafia]

Well based on more information, I don't think you played it as badly as I initially thought. Generally speaking I wouldn't be over-limping w/ hands like A-9 off-suit, but I can understand it (somewhat) here b/c you knew people were limping w/ trashy hands and that the table was very inexperienced (and hence passive?).

However, I still disagree w/ your river value bet. The ONLY hands you are beating are a worse 9, or something like 8-7. anything else that is calling you beats you. the elderly lady bet into 4 people on the flop - she obviously likes her hand somewhat...and she continued on the turn (though she bet meagerly). the pot is already quite big, i'd be happy to showdown for nothing more.

[suzy89222]

[ QUOTE ]
Well based on more information, I don't think you played it as badly as I initially thought. Generally speaking I wouldn't be over-limping w/ hands like A-9 off-suit, but I can understand it (somewhat) here b/c you knew people were limping w/ trashy hands and that the table was very inexperienced (and hence passive?).

However, I still disagree w/ your river value bet. The ONLY hands you are beating are a worse 9, or something like 8-7. anything else that is calling you beats you. the elderly lady bet into 4 people on the flop - she obviously likes her hand somewhat...and she continued on the turn (though she bet meagerly). the pot is already quite big, i'd be happy to showdown for nothing more.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would almost always just check behind on river, but my gut told me i had the best hand, and that she probably had a worse 9 and would call. again, bad bad read.

[THEOSU]

i like a check on the river.

since you made a pretty thin value bet, you HAVE to fold to the check/raise when you learn that you were incorrect in your assessment.

[aaronbeen]

womens only events shouldn't count as high stakes mtts

[curtains]

Im just saying that the guy called it a pure spew play. I think thats way too simplistic.

[suzy89222]

[ QUOTE ]
womens only events shouldn't count as high stakes mtts

[/ QUOTE ]

whatever

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
womens only events shouldn't count as high stakes mtts

[/ QUOTE ]

whatever

[/ QUOTE ]


lol, my sister is playing in this event (still alive with 66 left) and I have to concur they are exceptionally bad, many many times worse than the regular 1500 MTTs which are not so star studded themselves.

I will give one example:

Blinds 300-600 with 75 ante. She has 4000 left. Button raises to 2k. Jenn (my sister) uses the old stop+go with A5o. Flop comes KQ9, she pushes for her last 2k. Pot has whatever, like 5k chips in it, and she shows TT and throws it in the muck.

[suzy89222]

yes, they are AWFUL overall. you cannot even compare it to the regular 1500 MTTs. i can't stress how bad many of them are. they are in a constant state of confusion, but not because they are females OBVIOUSLY. it is because of total lack of experience.

[shaundeeb]

[ QUOTE ]
womens only events shouldn't count as mtts

[/ QUOTE ]

[THAY3R]

[ QUOTE ]
\blinds 400 and 800, 100 ante.

utg limps, mp limps

[/ QUOTE ]

lol womenaments

[Joeflex]

nh LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL


Joeflex

[0evg0]

[ QUOTE ]
Edit - whether or not Daniel Negreanu can limp here I believe is irrelevant for the OP, as it should to most posters here. He is incredibly creative and a brilliant hand-reader. So the fact that he can limp w/ bad hands I don't think should influence advice you give to someone else who is newer to tournaments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Take this fanboy crap to P5s.

I'd take at least a dozen, probably two dozen, different frequent posters here over Negreanu even-money for best finish in any MTT.

[suzy89222]

the biggest mistakes i made with this hand is putting too much stock into my live reads. i felt the way she bet her hand on the turn that she may have a big hand. when i called the flop, i planned on raising or pushing turn if it was a safe card. then i chickened out. then i read her for a weak hand on the river, and made a very questionable bet. all of it is questionable (preflop, calling riv raise) i know, but the biggest mistake was my thinking i had a good idea of what she had.

[0evg0]

suzy,

stop beating yourself up.

Shove over the bet on the turn as played, otherwise bet/fold the river. That's it.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Edit - whether or not Daniel Negreanu can limp here I believe is irrelevant for the OP, as it should to most posters here. He is incredibly creative and a brilliant hand-reader. So the fact that he can limp w/ bad hands I don't think should influence advice you give to someone else who is newer to tournaments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Take this fanboy crap to P5s.

I'd take at least a dozen, probably two dozen, different frequent posters here over Negreanu even-money for best finish in any MTT.

[/ QUOTE ]


Listen I'm just throwing out names, my point is that good players who definitely win at poker would not automatically fold preflop.

[0evg0]

??

Wasn't directed at you at all Curains, and I probably wouldn't have folded PF either.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
??

Wasn't directed at you at all Curains, and I probably wouldn't have folded PF either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok its just that I'm the one who originally brought Negreanu's name into the equation.

[Irish Mafia]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Edit - whether or not Daniel Negreanu can limp here I believe is irrelevant for the OP, as it should to most posters here. He is incredibly creative and a brilliant hand-reader. So the fact that he can limp w/ bad hands I don't think should influence advice you give to someone else who is newer to tournaments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Take this fanboy crap to P5s.

I'd take at least a dozen, probably two dozen, different frequent posters here over Negreanu even-money for best finish in any MTT.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sir, are a moron. For one, I didn't bring up Negreanu. For two, his tournament track record speaks for itself. I love how its so "trendy" to knock tv pro's, who may have played a few hands poorly on High Stakes Poker. I guess he won Player of the Year in 2004 by accident. Or is the all-time money winner in the WPT (which, I think is all MTT if i'm not mistaken) just by "running hot". Unless one of these posters is Phil Hellmuth, Jr., I will take you up on that bet - that Daniel will cash for more money in the WSOP than any individual poster (of the dozens you can name) on here.

Just an absurd comment on every level.

----
Speaking of being a "fanboy" (and there was no need for that condescending post) - maybe I should make some sweet avatar like "free cts"... then i'd be really cool!

[0evg0]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Edit - whether or not Daniel Negreanu can limp here I believe is irrelevant for the OP, as it should to most posters here. He is incredibly creative and a brilliant hand-reader. So the fact that he can limp w/ bad hands I don't think should influence advice you give to someone else who is newer to tournaments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Take this fanboy crap to P5s.

I'd take at least a dozen, probably two dozen, different frequent posters here over Negreanu even-money for best finish in any MTT.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sir, are a moron. For one, I didn't bring up Negreanu. For two, his tournament track record speaks for itself. I love how its so "trendy" to knock tv pro's, who may have played a few hands poorly on High Stakes Poker. I guess he won Player of the Year in 2004 by accident. Or is the all-time money winner in the WPT (which, I think is all MTT if i'm not mistaken) just by "running hot". Unless one of these posters is Phil Hellmuth, Jr., I will take you up on that bet - that Daniel will cash for more money in the WSOP than any individual poster (of the dozens you can name) on here.

Just an absurd comment on every level.

----
Speaking of being a "fanboy" (and there was no need for that condescending post) - maybe I should make some sweet avatar like "free cts"... then i'd be really cool!

[/ QUOTE ]

lol @ u

[Fletch46]

If the lady you were in this hand against was my friend, Colette from Vancouver BC, she is a very good player with about 15 years experience. The woman you described is about the right age and has short white hair. She's done very well in tournaments here and won a sat. (with about 100+ players) in Vancouver to get to the Ladies event. There was only one seat given and she got it. It was nice to see her cash in her first WSOP event.

[suzy89222]

yeah she played her hand well against me whoever it was. didnt expect it. is she a big lady? overweight and just big (not huge), and seems a little bitchy (or just not very friendly)?

[Fletch46]

No she's not big, about 5'3'' and very serious when she's playing. Guess it was someone else. The age was right and she has pure white hair. Anyway, wish I could have gone with her.

[APipeDream]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
womens only events shouldn't count as high stakes mtts

[/ QUOTE ]

whatever

[/ QUOTE ]


lol, my sister is playing in this event (still alive with 66 left) and I have to concur they are exceptionally bad, many many times worse than the regular 1500 MTTs which are not so star studded themselves.

I will give one example:

Blinds 300-600 with 75 ante. She has 4000 left. Button raises to 2k. Jenn (my sister) uses the old stop+go with A5o. Flop comes KQ9, she pushes for her last 2k. Pot has whatever, like 5k chips in it, and she shows TT and throws it in the muck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice...sounds like a stars 180!