QQ v Fish - I am strong pre flop then facing bad flop...

[hennnerz]

What are you opinions on the pre-flop 3-bet with position? Then K high flop facing insta half pot bet from such a passive post flop OP.

Anyone consider pushing or is fold just standard here?

SB is big fish, running 46/19/0.71

Prima Poker skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.20
4 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
Hero: $28.30
Button: $18.85
SB: $22.79
BB: $16.70

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $0.8</font>, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $1.8</font>, BB folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $6.3</font>, SB calls.

Flop: 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($12.8, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $6.4</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $6.4 returned to SB.

Results:
Final pot: $12.8

[Nick C]

In my recent experience, most micro players, including aggressive preflop players, tend to save their preflop 3-bets for premium hands, so I think the 4-bet is at least debateable, although I don't have a big problem with it. After all, you do have the third-best possible starting hand, and also you've seen SB play and I haven't. If he's been doing a fair share of 3-betting, then the 4-bet seems perfectly fine.

Anyway, I think the flop fold is fine. I'm not actually convinced SB has you beat (I mean, versus this guy, who really knows?), but I wouldn't want to pay to find out. Plus, as you note, he is generally passive postflop. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have a TT hand he's determined to play like the nuts no matter what falls, but his smallish flop bet is nevertheless an invitation to play for stacks, and I'm not crazy about the odds we'd be getting.

[hennnerz]

By 4-bet do you mean pushing the flop yes? Also it was he who called PF.

So hands he could have here seems like AK, KQs and KQ?

He had no history of 3-betting and only real aggression he has shown post flop so far is min raising in unraised pot on A high board.

[Pokey]

If your read is strong then you can fold this flop; otherwise, I'd smooth-call and reevaluate on the turn, probably folding if he fires again. A player with a postflop aggression of 0.71 who is leading into the preflop REraiser is indicating mondo strength. Considering that any naked K beats your hand, I'd let it go, since you're probably behind and if you're behind you're drawing to two outs.

The situation sucks, but it happens. If your opponent were more aggressive postflop, this would be a "grit your teeth and call down" situation, but 0.71 is not a bluffer.

[prodonkey]

I let it go. I don't think I would 4 bet someone of those stats preflop, I'd just call in position.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
By 4-bet do you mean pushing the flop yes? Also it was he who called PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was referring to when you made it $6.3 to go preflop.

SB didn't call you preflop (at least not at first); he 3-bet.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
So hands he could have here seems like AK, KQs and KQ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, these hands all seem entirely possible. I wouldn't rule out KK and AA, either, despite the fact that he just called your preflop 4-bet.

I also wouldn't rule out a worse PP than yours, but like I said, I'm not thrilled about the odds you seem to be getting here.

It is possible that if you call the flop, Villain will slow down and check the turn. But he'll still often have you beat. And to get to showdown for just the size of his flop bet, you need him to check the turn and the river.

[hennnerz]

Do people at this level really flat call PF with KK, AA?

And sorry I must have confusion regarding the 3-bet, can you clarify a 3-bet for me please?

Cheers

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
Do people at this level really flat call PF with KK, AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't seen much of it, I'll admit, but I'm sure it happens. Anecdotally, I have lost a couple of big pots (to AA and QQ) in recent sessions after getting min/3-bet by those hands preflop.

My main point, though (at least with regard to assigning a range to Villain), is that this Villain is fishy and bad and he's going to do things sometimes that don't seem logical or even in character for him.

[ QUOTE ]
And sorry I must have confusion regarding the 3-bet, can you clarify a 3-bet for me please?

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop, you opened for a raise and SB reraised. That reraise was a 3-bet. When you came back at him with a reraise of your own, that was a 4-bet.