NL50 would this be the nittiest fold ever?

[NSchandler]

Don't have many hands on him, but villain seems a little loose and a little passive, something like 30/10/2 maybe. He seems fairly straight forward so far.

Btw, I almost never limp in this spot, but BB was an uber calling station so I just wanted to keep the pot small and extract if I hit a hand.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

BB ($60)
UTG ($49.50)
MP ($58.90)
Hero ($50)
SB ($93.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $0.50, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($2) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1.9</font>, SB calls $1.90, BB folds, UTG calls $1.90.

Turn: ($7.70) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $3</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $11</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $47.1</font>, Hero ?

Is it really possible to lay down the 2nd nuts here or would that be over the top nitarded? Call and hope for 66/88?

Edited typo

[mugatu668]

Dear God, don't ever, everever fold this. Ever. Ever.

[youthies]

[ QUOTE ]
Dear God, don't ever, everever fold this. Ever. Ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed

[tiger_hall]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dear God, don't ever, everever fold this. Ever. Ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed

[/ QUOTE ]

[TIGERsrm]

I think you see the nuts here a fair amount, I mean you can't really put him on a worse flush though he might limp a small suited connector UTG. Certainly can't fold here though.

[cuQa]

fold that..
take all your money out of your purse ..
take a lighter and make a little fire..

this could easily be AA/KK and lots of other overplayed crap

[marvin_1935]

folding is fine. the next highest flush is T high, meaning he limped T7s utg . . . is he really shoving T high flush when it's more than possible you have the A high flush? this is not "ZOMG CALL CALL CALL" this is close and marginally +EV IF he plays sets like this which i doubt. it is also high varience. i can fold here no problem

[barryc83]

lol yeah man only put your stack in with the nuts for sure.

[Vyse]

[ QUOTE ]
folding is fine. the next highest flush is T high, meaning he limped T7s utg . . . is he really shoving T high flush when it's more than possible you have the A high flush? this is not "ZOMG CALL CALL CALL" this is close and marginally +EV IF he plays sets like this which i doubt. it is also high varience. i can fold here no problem

[/ QUOTE ]

I take money from players like you.

[KRS ONE]

River Td obv.

[Fiksdal]

lock plz

[NSchandler]

Don't worry, I didn't fold. But I did think about it. He had nut flush obv.

[marvin_1935]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
folding is fine. the next highest flush is T high, meaning he limped T7s utg . . . is he really shoving T high flush when it's more than possible you have the A high flush? this is not "ZOMG CALL CALL CALL" this is close and marginally +EV IF he plays sets like this which i doubt. it is also high varience. i can fold here no problem

[/ QUOTE ]

I take money from players like you.

[/ QUOTE ]

clearly folding here is indicative of my entire game . . .

calling off your full stack in an unraised pot like this without a read is spewing.

[Vyse]

[ QUOTE ]


calling off your full stack in an unraised pot like this without a read is spewing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you seriously believe this? Let's play heads up some time.

[marvin_1935]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


calling off your full stack in an unraised pot like this without a read is spewing.

[/ QUOTE ]


Do you seriously believe this? Let's play heads up some time.

[/ QUOTE ]

please put villain on a worse hand that c/c's the flop, then bets less then 1/2psb on the turn and then is ai in vs a turn raise . . . going broke here WITHOUT A READ is spewing.

[Vyse]

I would gander that many / most 2p2ers themselves would go broke with a litany of hands worse than his SECOND NUT FLUSH on this board.

Dude, it's the SECOND. BEST. POSSIBLE. HAND. Do you know what you're saying?

[bluffbetter]

I know the action doesn't suggest this but if you were UTG and had AK/KQ/KJ or a set on this turn how much would you bet here with these hands and the pot size same as above, $4.50?

[Vyse]

Like $6.

[marvin_1935]

[ QUOTE ]
I would gander that many / most 2p2ers themselves would go broke with a litany of hands worse than his SECOND NUT FLUSH on this board.

[/ QUOTE ]

sure, we have the second nut hand, but the third nut hand plays nothing like villain has played his hand. i could care less what many 2p2ers would do here as most 2p2ers are not winners in this game. CALLING an all in here is much worse than shoving all in. do you see why? here's the math on why calling is bad here:

80 percent of the time:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

308 games 0.005 secs 61,600 games/sec

Board: Kd Jd 8d 6c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 01.948% 01.95% 00.00% 6 0.00 { Qd9d }
Hand 1: 98.052% 98.05% 00.00% 302 0.00 { AdTd, Ad7d, Ad6d, Ad5d, Ad4d, Ad3d, Ad2d }

<font color="blue"> Pot=65.8 Call=36.1 Equity= .02*65.8-.98*36.1 = -34 </font>

10 percent of the time:

---

132 games 0.005 secs 26,400 games/sec

Board: Kd Jd 8d 6c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 100.000% 100.00% 00.00% 132 0.00 { Qd9d }
Hand 1: 00.000% 00.00% 00.00% 0 0.00 { 7d6d, 6d5d, 5d4d }

<font color="blue">Pot=65.8 Call=36.1 Equity=1*65.8-0*36.1 = 65.8 </font>

10 percent of the time:

---

264 games 0.005 secs 52,800 games/sec

Board: Kd Jd 8d 6c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 77.273% 77.27% 00.00% 204 0.00 { Qd9d }
Hand 1: 22.727% 22.73% 00.00% 60 0.00 { 88, 66 }

<font color="blue">Pot=65.8 Call=36.1 Equity=.77*65.8-.23*36.1 = 42.4 </font>

<font color="green"> final equity = .1*42.4+.1*65.8+.8*-34 = -16.4
</font>

[ QUOTE ]
Dude, it's the SECOND. BEST. POSSIBLE. HAND. Do you know what you're saying?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is first level thinking. please consider what villian is telling you with his actions. feel free to adjust the PS ranges and assumptions if you wish to turn it into an EV call. villain's line reeks of the nuts and not much else.

[vixticator]

[ QUOTE ]
lock plz

[/ QUOTE ]

[evazan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


calling off your full stack in an unraised pot like this without a read is spewing.

[/ QUOTE ]


Do you seriously believe this? Let's play heads up some time.

[/ QUOTE ]

please put villain on a worse hand that c/c's the flop, then bets less then 1/2psb on the turn and then is ai in vs a turn raise . . . going broke here WITHOUT A READ is spewing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any suited connector with diamonds? A of diamonds with a pair? A set? You have to be kidding yourself to say the only hand in villains range is the nuts.

[creamfillin]

marvin, I appreciate the effort, but folding here would be criminal

[cuQa]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
folding is fine. the next highest flush is T high, meaning he limped T7s utg . . . is he really shoving T high flush when it's more than possible you have the A high flush? this is not "ZOMG CALL CALL CALL" this is close and marginally +EV IF he plays sets like this which i doubt. it is also high varience. i can fold here no problem

[/ QUOTE ]

I take money from players like you.

[/ QUOTE ]

clearly folding here is indicative of my entire game . . .

calling off your full stack in an unraised pot like this without a read is spewing.

[/ QUOTE ]

rofl, what the [censored]? No kidding, this is ridiculous.. do you have like 5 wtsd or what? at micro nl this could be lots of hands .. and of course lots of lower flushs

[hoyasaxa]

I would not fold this unless someone offered me a larger amount of money than the pot to fold. The only hand I can really see that beat you is A10 of diamonds. Thats it. I would call and probably get shown KJ.

[Shizzle12345]

Lol@ marvin, ur the kinda guy, when i tilt and push u here with crap, says u folded a Flush. And then i dont believe u. Folding this is like burning money.

And i see lots of players with all kinds of stats limp UTG with crap hand, I sometimes do it too for fun.

[Vyse]

[ QUOTE ]

this is first level thinking. please consider what villian is telling you with his actions. feel free to adjust the PS ranges and assumptions if you wish to turn it into an EV call. villain's line reeks of the nuts and not much else.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yawn. You need some more experience at the micros guy. It's played like someone overplaying a hand. You seriously think 66, 88, KJ isn't played like this? You vastly overestimate the ability of micro limit players. Hell, many 2p2 players with those hands would play it a similar way after the flop -- you can see the misplayed hands through pages of threads on this very forum.