When do YOU, the player, raise?

[meleader2]

villain is 25% to steal, running 25/18/2

what do you need in the question marks to REraise...pot.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($19.70)
BB ($19.50)
UTG ($49)
MP ($60.45)
Hero ($86.35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, ?:?:.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $2</font>, Hero ?

[Khaos4k]

AQs, AKo

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
AQs, AKo

[/ QUOTE ]

come on, r u kidding? i guess i shoulda made it more like u have A?, K?, and Q? when do u raise

ur way too tight just reraising AKo, AQs.

[Lego05]

On the button against a CO raise against this type of player I've been thinking of the merits of raising any 2. That's why I made that post a few days ago about the 3bet calling range of most villians like this. However, I didn't get many responses.

If he's raising 25% and calling with as much as 6.5%, (which as long as I'm not thinking something wrong would be like 88+,AK,AQ or TT+,AJ+) than raising would have us win right there 74% of the time. If our raise is to 6 we need to win 68.7% of the time, raise to 6.5 70% of the time, raise to 7 than 72% of the time for it to be immediately profitable. However, these numbers do not take into account the times the blinds wake up with a hand and play with us. I don't think this would happen a lot but I don't know how significant it would be.


Edit: Plus the metagame and image benefits are easy to imagine.

[bsheck]

I need AA to reraise. I'd flat call with AK-AJ, and Ax suited.

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
On the button against a CO raise against this type of player I've been thinking of the merits of raising any 2. That's why I made that post a few days ago about the 3bet calling range of most villians like this. However, I didn't get many responses.

If he's raising 25% and calling with as much as 6.5%, (which as long as I'm not thinking something wrong would be like 88+,AK,AQ or TT+,AJ+) than raising would have us win right there 74% of the time. If our raise is to 6 we need to win 68.7% of the time, raise to 6.5 70% of the time, raise to 7 than 72% of the time for it to be immediately profitable. However, these numbers do not take into account the times the blinds wake up with a hand and play with us. I don't think this would happen a lot but I don't know how significant it would be.


Edit: Plus the metagame and image benefits are easy to imagine.

[/ QUOTE ]

TBH i don't think u got a lot of responses cuz not a lot of people are willing to 3bet light. hell, even if the blinds come along most of the time it's with 22-88 and a cbet will knock em out.

hell i'll 3bet if i just joined a table and see "xxx won $1.50" 3 or 4 times in a row just to get my image going when i don't have a read

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On the button against a CO raise against this type of player I've been thinking of the merits of raising any 2. That's why I made that post a few days ago about the 3bet calling range of most villians like this. However, I didn't get many responses.

If he's raising 25% and calling with as much as 6.5%, (which as long as I'm not thinking something wrong would be like 88+,AK,AQ or TT+,AJ+) than raising would have us win right there 74% of the time. If our raise is to 6 we need to win 68.7% of the time, raise to 6.5 70% of the time, raise to 7 than 72% of the time for it to be immediately profitable. However, these numbers do not take into account the times the blinds wake up with a hand and play with us. I don't think this would happen a lot but I don't know how significant it would be.


Edit: Plus the metagame and image benefits are easy to imagine.

[/ QUOTE ]

TBH i don't think u got a lot of responses cuz not a lot of people are willing to 3bet light. hell, even if the blinds come along most of the time it's with 22-88 and a cbet will knock em out.

hell i'll 3bet if i just joined a table and see "xxx won $1.50" 3 or 4 times in a row just to get my image going when i don't have a read

[/ QUOTE ]


What do you think about what i said though? Does my math look right and do you think it may be profitable to 3bet here with any 2 cards? I was also wondering if I have to take into account that his steal % is button and CO and perhaps he is actually still a little tighter in CO. I really just started thinking about this a week and a half ago and started doing math in the car on the way to a wedding in Indiana.

[DannyOcean_]

[ QUOTE ]
I need AA to reraise. I'd flat call with AK-AJ, and Ax suited.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so so so so so bad. Wow. Not reraising with some ace hands is spew, not the normal kind, but still spew. Just giving away money.

My answer:

I will reraise with AK-AQo, and AK-ATs. If i have a history at the table with this player, or a strong read, maybe a little looser.

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On the button against a CO raise against this type of player I've been thinking of the merits of raising any 2. That's why I made that post a few days ago about the 3bet calling range of most villians like this. However, I didn't get many responses.

If he's raising 25% and calling with as much as 6.5%, (which as long as I'm not thinking something wrong would be like 88+,AK,AQ or TT+,AJ+) than raising would have us win right there 74% of the time. If our raise is to 6 we need to win 68.7% of the time, raise to 6.5 70% of the time, raise to 7 than 72% of the time for it to be immediately profitable. However, these numbers do not take into account the times the blinds wake up with a hand and play with us. I don't think this would happen a lot but I don't know how significant it would be.


Edit: Plus the metagame and image benefits are easy to imagine.

[/ QUOTE ]

TBH i don't think u got a lot of responses cuz not a lot of people are willing to 3bet light. hell, even if the blinds come along most of the time it's with 22-88 and a cbet will knock em out.

hell i'll 3bet if i just joined a table and see "xxx won $1.50" 3 or 4 times in a row just to get my image going when i don't have a read

[/ QUOTE ]


What do you think about what i said though? Does my math look right and do you think it may be profitable to 3bet here with any 2 cards? I was also wondering if I have to take into account that his steal % is button and CO and perhaps he is actually still a little tighter in CO. I really just started thinking about this a week and a half ago and started doing math in the car on the way to a wedding in Indiana.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dislike ur any 2 card theory immensely. that is pure spew, and i really don't know what the ultra-definition of a real LAG is..but if u'r trying to attain that, i can guarantee (with no offense) ur postflop play is far from superior and u will be c/f a lot.

u need to 3 bet anything from connectors, ace high, tight king high (i'd even go so far as to throw out K9...maybe KT) to the occasional Axs (with str8 outs) and one gappers. the flop will always be an insta bet, while if he calls and u have ANY piece of the flop, even if it's to the river bringing you ur gutshot, i usually bet again.

your math i'm not sure on

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I need AA to reraise. I'd flat call with AK-AJ, and Ax suited.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so so so so so bad. Wow. Not reraising with some ace hands is spew, not the normal kind, but still spew. Just giving away money.

My answer:

I will reraise with AK-AQo, and AK-ATs. If i have a history at the table with this player, or a strong read, maybe a little looser.

[/ QUOTE ]

ya, i find a lot of the times they lead anywhere from 1bb to 3bbs and a raise will make em chuck it

[Lego05]

Well I'd check it again but if we raise to 7 we only need to win 72% of the time. And with the right raising range for him and the correct range he'll call a 3bet with I think raising any 2 can be profitable at least before he adjusts to what you are doing. In any event I think you cna be 3betting much wider than what other people have said in this thread.

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I'd check it again but if we raise to 7 we only need to win 72% of the time. And with the right raising range for him and the correct range he'll call a 3bet with I think raising any 2 can be profitable at least before he adjusts to what you are doing. In any event I think you cna be 3betting much wider than what other people have said in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok if 72% is the magic number, and ur doing the cbetting, just look at the fold-cbet-% on villain and u should have a pretty easy answer. i still think the majority of us will get wrapped up in a hand like 94o if the flop comes A97, esp. if villain min raises after we've been doing what we've been doing for a while

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well I'd check it again but if we raise to 7 we only need to win 72% of the time. And with the right raising range for him and the correct range he'll call a 3bet with I think raising any 2 can be profitable at least before he adjusts to what you are doing. In any event I think you cna be 3betting much wider than what other people have said in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok if 72% is the magic number, and ur doing the cbetting, just look at the fold-cbet-% on villain and u should have a pretty easy answer. i still think the majority of us will get wrapped up in a hand like 94o if the flop comes A97, esp. if villain min raises after we've been doing what we've been doing for a while

[/ QUOTE ]

Well first I meant win 72% of the time pre-flop. With a c-bet we're risking more money although we are winning more money. I did not work that out.

Ok so...
Well clearly you have to be able to fold especially if a c-bet doesn't work. If I get called pre I may take one shot on the flop especially if it's A high but if he doesn't fold there I'm done with it.

And after you're doing it for a while you have to notice when he's adjusting and tighten up, but as long as you can do that it looks like ti would be profitable to me.

And 72% waas the magic number if his raise is to 2 and yours is to 7. If you can cut down your raise amount you could lower the percentage you need.

[kaz2107]

cant see u gettin a good answere here. sosososo many factors come into play here other then cards. if u r only playin tha cards in this descion it is prolly not right.

things i think about

past history... have i 3 bet him a few times before or have i been 3 bettin a lot at the table.

how does villian react to 3bets... will he be fisty and good post flop or is he the type to fold to most 3 bets or better yet call ur 3 bet then c/f basically all flops

how has the table been playing... if he is the only decent player at the table why [censored] around with him. let him have his shot at the fish and ull get urs. no need to look for conflict from the best player at the table if we dont need to.

prolly some others but it is just off the top of my head

[barryc83]

AK/AQ/AJ maybe maybe ATs if i had been tight and hadnt messed with the villain lately. I think 3betting lightly is kinda overrated JMI. I mean half of these so called tags just call every 3bet I make even when Im not out of line so I just tight my range and pwn the [censored] out of them. I hate 3betting AT just bc when the flop comes Axx or Txx you have to be really cautious.

Honestly, I hate playing A-weak in general, those hands have RIO written all over them unless theyre suited.