25NL - 4betting light vs thinking player

[ShipitFMA]

this guy is 17 / 11 / 2.4 over 800 hands
probably played with him for about 100 hands, hes been 3betting alot of my button raises and i havnt been calling many / been calling - > folding to his cbet alot

im playing extremely lag, at about 37 / 29 / 2

i think my 4bet size is a but questionable, but i wanted to give myself room to feel good about a 3/4 pot bet on the flop

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $27.70
BB: $25.35
UTG: $36.43
MP: $27.40
CO: $18.94
<font color="black">Hero (BTN): $190.44</font>

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 Players)
2 folds, CO calls $0.25, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.25</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $3.00</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $7.75</font>, SB calls $4.75

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($16) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $9.00</font>, SB folds

Pot Size: $25.00

Im sure alot of people will say don't 4bet light at 25nl, but this guy seemed to be a decent player and i wanted him to stop 3betting me (presumably light)

[tarheeljks]

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hes been 3betting alot of my button raises and i haven't been calling many

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4 betting sounds like a great idea then.

[Alize]

The 4bet does looks a bit small, but you already explained that. I 4bet light once in a while, but a would wait for a better hand (99+, A9s+). 4betting light is really not necessary, but it doesn't hurt to mix it in once in a while.

[Antinome]

i'd wait for a hand with less reverse implied odds. Like T8s.

[Spechel EDD]

id 4-ball to $9 maybe but other than that looks okay if your whole line was to 4-bet and take it down with a c-bet.

[NSchandler]

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i'd wait for a hand with less reverse implied odds. Like T8s.

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[Lego05]

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i'd wait for a hand with less reverse implied odds. Like T8s.

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I'd think it should be a bit bigger too.

[CheddaBones]

I like a 3/4 bet w/a wide range against the right player (e.g. a nit) at 25NL cuz ppl assume KK/AA.

also ship, who is that chick in your avatar?

[meleader2]

if ur going to four bet, and in this situation it is PERFECT only because the guy 3bet SO SO SO WEAK, you should make it POT size so he knows ur going to be betting the flop hard.

if he calls, 2/3 pot. i think 9 mighta been too small, and if he really WAS a thinking player, he woulda picked up on that from your preflop weak 4bet.

[Thuey11]

Have u logged a lot of hands at 25nl because ive logged 35k+ over the past couple weeks and still haven't seen you at any of my tables.

[22pajo]

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i'd wait for a hand with less reverse implied odds. Like T8s.

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Care to elaborate on this to a NLHE n00b?
Apologies to OP for hijacking thread but i need the above statement explained.

[tannenj]

op, i think your 4bet sizing is perfect because it allows you to fold to a shove. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...&amp;PHPSESSID= (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=ssplnlpoker&amp;Number=976168 9&amp;fpart=&amp;PHPSESSID=)

22: the other posters are referencing the idea that if op flops an ace, his hand might not be good.

[NSchandler]

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i'd wait for a hand with less reverse implied odds. Like T8s.

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Care to elaborate on this to a NLHE n00b?
Apologies to OP for hijacking thread but i need the above statement explained.

[/ QUOTE ]

When villain calls your 4-bet, he's most likely got a hand like AA-JJ or AK. Against that range you'd much rather have a hand like 76s than AT for 2 reasons.

First of all, 76s plays better against that range than a hand like ATo from a pure equity perspective. For example, against the range AA-JJ and AK, 76s has approximately 30% equity while ATo has only about 26%.

Second, and this is the reverse implied odds point, a lot of times that you "hit" with a hand like ATo you still have no idea where you stand. Usually you have a better idea of where you stand with something like 76s. For example, on a flop like A83, if you have AT you still have to tread carefully because you may very well be drawing to 3 outs if your opponent has a hand like AK or AQ. Even something like AA8 you have to be careful with if you're getting played back at. Conversely, with 76s you usually know you're behind unless you hit 2 pair or better, or sometimes spike a pair on a low board.

In short, you want to avoid 4-betting with hands that are easily dominated by the villain's calling range. Ax with x&lt;K easily fall into that range.

[ShipitFMA]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'd wait for a hand with less reverse implied odds. Like T8s.

[/ QUOTE ]
Care to elaborate on this to a NLHE n00b?
Apologies to OP for hijacking thread but i need the above statement explained.

[/ QUOTE ]

When villain calls your 4-bet, he's most likely got a hand like AA-JJ or AK. Against that range you'd much rather have a hand like 76s than AT for 2 reasons.

First of all, 76s plays better against that range than a hand like ATo from a pure equity perspective. For example, against the range AA-JJ and AK, 76s has approximately 30% equity while ATo has only about 26%.

Second, and this is the reverse implied odds point, a lot of times that you "hit" with a hand like ATo you still have no idea where you stand. Usually you have a better idea of where you stand with something like 76s. For example, on a flop like A83, if you have AT you still have to tread carefully because you may very well be drawing to 3 outs if your opponent has a hand like AK or AQ. Even something like AA8 you have to be careful with if you're getting played back at. Conversely, with 76s you usually know you're behind unless you hit 2 pair or better, or sometimes spike a pair on a low board.

In short, you want to avoid 4-betting with hands that are easily dominated by the villain's calling range. Ax with x&lt;K easily fall into that range.

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I think this may be true is MOST cases at 25nl, this however was a rarity though. I believe this villian was 3betting EXTREMELY light as he was used to playing vs players who consider a 3bet to be AA KK QQ, and not even considering they're getting 3bet light

I didn't want to let him keep running over me, i'd probably be making this same play with 45o just to play back at him (don't criticise that, it may not be that light...but just to make a point).

With my PF bet sizing i didnt want to bet to 9 or 10 and commit to much to the pot, and if he did call i didnt want to have to fire a $15 bet on the flop to bet 3/4 pot.
I'd still be able to fold PF to a shove and on the flop to a shove

Im not sure what its like at other sites, but at party its very rare to find a villian actually playing back at you so i figured i'd get to critique on this hand