$50rebuy hand vs lilholdem

[Whitey]

I have recently gone from 5K to 50K in 1 round of blinds but showing reasonable hands for each situation. I'm not sure how he views me.

He has been quiet but the pots he has played have usually been raises/reraises without showdowns.

After he calls me I plan on playing this as cheaply as possible, but the flop made things a little more interesting /images/graemlins/smile.gif

What range do you put the villan on and whats my best play?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1600 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

BB (t18565)
<font color="#C00000">Hero (t48920)</font>
<font color="#C00000">UTG+1 (t22360)</font>
MP1 (t29067)
MP2 (t24078)
CO (t12826)
Button (t16430)
SB (t62110)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t4800</font>, UTG+1 calls t4800, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>.

Flop: (t10125) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

[gravycakes]

AQ, AK...I`m probably taking this to the bank.

[BarryLyndon]

wait, how the hell is AK in his range at 800/1600?

Given stack sizes, I'm not sure if I love raising with 66 here.

I think UTG+1 has a monster a bigger percentage than usual; I don't see what he's smooth calling here with 10BB left. Maybe 1010?

You're behind a lot more often then you think, but with prob. 10 outs and the possiblity of folding out AQ hands (weirdly played AJ), I guess push. You're getting your $$ in one way or another and folding out overs is nice.

Barry

[registrar]

If you're happy to felt this, then check-push&gt;open push IMO.

[gravycakes]

[ QUOTE ]
wait, how the hell is AK in his range at 800/1600?



[/ QUOTE ]

People don`t smooth call in position with AK anymore? maybe if he was SB or BB he wouldn`t smooth call...I think he has chips to play with. You`re right though..a lot of people would just push...but I can`t take it out of his range.

[BarryLyndon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wait, how the hell is AK in his range at 800/1600?



[/ QUOTE ]
Not at usually these stacks, Gravy. It's either a monster (KK-AA) or something oddily played. I worry about the oddly played stuff - is this player a loose-passive pussy who is afraid of you, but not afraid enough to call with AJ/AQ, KQs, something weird. Do I really want to give a free card here? If I check, will he push or take the free card. I don't know. What I do know is that if he has 99+, he's getting it in no matter what; if he has broadways hoping to connect, then the pot is too big to [censored] around.

Barry

People don`t smooth call in position with AK anymore? maybe if he was SB or BB he wouldn`t smooth call...I think he has chips to play with. You`re right though..a lot of people would just push...but I can`t take it out of his range.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Flatlanman3]

lol @ open push for $44,000 . not necessary at all. Betting 5,000 would be much more likely to induce an all in from AQ or AK than putting him all in and turning your hand face up

[Whitey]

[ QUOTE ]
lol @ open push for $44,000 . not necessary at all. Betting 5,000 would be much more likely to induce an all in from AQ or AK than putting him all in and turning your hand face up

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain only has 17K left and the pot is already 10K. If I do open push here doesnt this look more like AK than 66?

[Whitey]

Villain is a very aggro player and his flat call is scary.

No way he has AK here so do we assume this is always AA/KK?

Do we actually have any folding equity?

[Flatlanman3]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lol @ open push for $44,000 . not necessary at all. Betting 5,000 would be much more likely to induce an all in from AQ or AK than putting him all in and turning your hand face up

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain only has 17K left and the pot is already 10K. If I do open push here doesnt this look more like AK than 66?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you knew much about tournament theory youd know that it is never necessary to bet more than the pot, in any situation, all you do is put more chips at risk and look retarded

[Whitey]

Lol I never stated anything other than your misconception that a push was for 17K not 44.

There are many times open pushing more than the pot is correct, whether this is one of them is open to debate.

[Exitonly]

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[ QUOTE ]
lol @ open push for $44,000 . not necessary at all. Betting 5,000 would be much more likely to induce an all in from AQ or AK than putting him all in and turning your hand face up

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain only has 17K left and the pot is already 10K. If I do open push here doesnt this look more like AK than 66?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you knew much about tournament theory youd know that it is never necessary to bet more than the pot, in any situation, all you do is put more chips at risk and look retarded

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for some very general, and terrible advice!

[registrar]

[ QUOTE ]
If you knew much about tournament theory youd know that it is never necessary to bet more than the pot, in any situation, all you do is put more chips at risk and look retarded

[/ QUOTE ]

That's just so wrong. Any hard and fast and unalterable *rules* about bet sizing are wrong.

About the hand, I reiterate that if, as Barry thinks, we're getting in whatever, then checking is better because we're not folding any better hands and this gives him a chance to shove big unpaired hands. I don't think that's much of his range FWIW. The pre-flop pot is too big for him to want to be [censored] around with AQ/AK for 1/4 of his stack especially when he's not going to be first to act on the flop.

[ianisakson]

anyone who has played lilholdem much knows his preflop play is very weird, he has a bigger pair almost always here, and the other % of the time it's a misclick-call or something weird like that. I'm probably still check-jamming him because we have outs and there is still a chance he has AK/AQ or something like that.

[stillnotking]

[ QUOTE ]
I have recently gone from 5K to 50K in 1 round of blinds but showing reasonable hands for each situation. I'm not sure how he views me.

He has been quiet but the pots he has played have usually been raises/reraises without showdowns.

After he calls me I plan on playing this as cheaply as possible, but the flop made things a little more interesting /images/graemlins/smile.gif

What range do you put the villan on and whats my best play?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1600 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

BB (t18565)
<font color="#C00000">Hero (t48920)</font>
<font color="#C00000">UTG+1 (t22360)</font>
MP1 (t29067)
MP2 (t24078)
CO (t12826)
Button (t16430)
SB (t62110)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t4800</font>, UTG+1 calls t4800, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>.

Flop: (t10125) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

I think most of the discussion on this hand is beside the point. Given that you have little chance of getting him to stack off with a lesser hand (what? KQ? AQ?), and given that you have a very strong draw that's ~40% to win even against an overpair, an open-shove seems by far the best option. Hopefully fold out 99/TT/JJ, definitely fold out unpaired big cards that wouldn't have given you more action anyway and might have caught up on the turn. Obviously get called by QQ+ and hope to suck out.

Can you lay this hand down after this flop? No. Can you trap villain into getting the money in with a thin draw? No. QED.

[ianisakson]

he probably isn't folding TT or JJ fwiw

[registrar]

[ QUOTE ]
he surely definitely isn't folding TT or JJ fwiw

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[curtains]

Ehh you are pot stuck now, almost 40% against overpair.

[Whitey]

Ok. I knew I was pot stuck and it seems what ever we do we never have any fold equity either.

I pushed and he showed AA, meh.

Does anyone else hate the the pre-flop raise?

[BarryLyndon]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok. I knew I was pot stuck and it seems what ever we do we never have any fold equity either.

I pushed and he showed AA, meh.

Does anyone else hate the the pre-flop raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet you do now /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

I really thought this whole problem started when you raised pre; I would have fold/limped here (OMG, yes, I would have limped here).

[NoahSD]

Bet 5.5k.. call a shove. I don't really know his range, but if there's a chance he has a hand that doesn't beat us here, we want him to put all them chips in with it.

[potamophobia]

There is no way villain is folding TT or JJ here like someone mentioned. I would just make your normal cbet and see what happens. He is probably not folding, and you arent folding either. I see all the money in the pot by the turn no matter what you do.

[Bakes]

unfortunately for you, i think his preflop range includes zero unpaired hands.

[stillnotking]

[ QUOTE ]
There is no way villain is folding TT or JJ here like someone mentioned. I would just make your normal cbet and see what happens. He is probably not folding, and you arent folding either. I see all the money in the pot by the turn no matter what you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why not open-push? If I'm willing to call an all-in, I'd rather be the one betting.

[stillnotking]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok. I knew I was pot stuck and it seems what ever we do we never have any fold equity either.

I pushed and he showed AA, meh.

Does anyone else hate the the pre-flop raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't hate the preflop raise at all. You're second biggest stack at the table and you have a hand that is pretty good for picking off resteals.

You made a good raise, got slowplayed by AA and got a flop that trapped you. Your only mistake was not rivering the straight. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ianisakson]

i would have considered folding pf instead of raising, but limping is pretty bad with the stack sizes.

[NHFunkii]

pretty sure he like always has AA here, considering how much he loves to shove from anywhere with anything

lol that he flatcalls with AA there though, given his image.

[Cornell Fiji]

money is going in 100% of the time here. You might as well lead for 5.5k in the rare chance that he has AK/AQ so that you can get him to bluff-raise. Given the reads this is irrelevant though

[Bakes]

oh also check the flop

[DLizzle]

i like his game quite a bit, but it's so obvious he has KK-AA here I'd be tempted to c/f flop

[stevepa]

[ QUOTE ]
Then why not open-push? If I'm willing to call an all-in, I'd rather be the one betting.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you wouldn't. Or at least you shouldn't in this case.

[registrar]

[ QUOTE ]
i like his game quite a bit, but it's so obvious he has KK-AA here I'd be tempted to c/f flop

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know his game at all but as I would not expect him (as a successful player) to fold an overpair and as I would expect him to have an overpair almost every time he hasn't misclicked, checking seems best. If that is exclusively his range, then we're anything between 24% and 38% to win (but not very often 24%) so I guess we're kind of potstuck but I could see myself check-folding sometimes. Checking is best, because he will have misclicked sometimes and MAY have AK very occasionally. He may also think that this is pretty safe flop to give us a free card and induce action on later streets when we've missed. As someone said, all of this conjecture is largely irrelevant because he is almost always betting and we are almost always felting but I really can't see why betting/shoving is preferable. There is simply nothing in our range that bet-folds here with a pot this big and the effective stacks so betting is not going to induce bluffs more than checking.