FBI says betting on 'virtual card games' is illegal in US

[permafrost]

'it’s illegal to gamble online in the United States' (http://www.fbi.gov/page2/june07/gambling060607.htm)

They make some broad statements. Are they correct?

[Homer]

The tone with which this was written puts me on major tilt.

[oldbookguy]

They need to tell AOL, MSN, & Yahoo! as well.

BS, the prior laws do not apply except to Sporrts betting (2 FEDERAL COURTS RULED)so we got the UIGEA.

The UIGEA covers games of chance.

obg

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

AmeriKKKa

[bossplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
AmeriKKKa

[/ QUOTE ]

It is CHImerika

[daedalus]

Apparently the FBI has forgot that it's job is to "Enforce" the Law vs. "Create" the Law. Sounds like the guy who crafted this needs a 3rd grade School House Rock lesson on the roles of the 3 branches of government.

http://bobfranquiz.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/b00005jkty01_ss500_sclzzzzzzz_v114036880.jpg

[sdfsdf]

[censored] pigs

[LadyWrestler]

"Your grandchildren will live under Communism!" - Nikita Khrushchev, to the American people, 1959.

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently the FBI has forgot that it's job is to "Enforce" the Law vs. "Create" the Law. Sounds like the guy who crafted this needs a 3rd grade School House Rock lesson on the roles of the 3 branches of government.
http://bobfranquiz.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/b00005jkty01_ss500_sclzzzzzzz_v114036880.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

[TheJokerIsWild]

How can they say something like this. I was under the assumption that actually playing wasn't illegal. I'm surprised this isn't more concerning to everybody here.

[Coy_Roy]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised this isn't more concerning to everybody here.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's no reason to be concerned because it isn't true.

If the FBI had their way, everything would be illegal.

[autobet]

I wonder if the tone here is to scare people.

They have only gone after businesses and state they will only continue to go after businesses.

But it is a good point to warn us our money may get tied up...permanently.

[oldbookguy]

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if the tone here is to scare people.

They have only gone after businesses and state they will only continue to go after businesses.

But it is a good point to warn us our money may get tied up...permanently.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is also a thing called 'Safe Harbor' that exclused the casual gambler which I suspect 90% of us are. We are playing for fun and not as a business.

Also, Internet Gambling (other than Sports are not covered by those laws). Read:

http://www.gamingpublic.com/documents/wireact.html

There is a link to the actual 5th Circuit Court Case that says so!

Our fight is the UIGEA and its regulations if they are applied to poker and not solitaire.

obg

[Dunkman]

Yeah I don't think this is really anything problematic except for the fact that it may lose us a few more fish, which we're running low on anyway.

[Sparta45]

[ QUOTE ]
How can they say something like this. I was under the assumption that actually playing wasn't illegal. I'm surprised this isn't more concerning to everybody here.

[/ QUOTE ]

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
'it’s illegal to gamble online in the United States' (http://www.fbi.gov/page2/june07/gambling060607.htm)

They make some broad statements. Are they correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think they are correct, but that hasn't stopped the FBI in the past. This should open some eyes as to how we're perceived by the feds. They actually threatened to target our funds while calling us criminals! There really is a federal component to this. With enforcement, as we see here, and also as they serve to impede the efforts of states to permit gaming sites by not allowing international or interstate play. After all, few states will be very interested in licensing Internet sites that can cater only to that state's residents.

I hope we'll all do our part by writing to our senators, represenatives, the DOJ, and the Treasury Dept. Ask Congress to repeal UIGEA or support IGREA's reforms and to support the Wexler poker bill. Ask the DOJ and the Treasury to only regulate what was legislated. Thanks.

[Quanah Parker]

Can someone find Joe Navarro for his input on this?

http://www.navarropoker.com/bio.html
"For twenty-five years, Joe Navarro, M.A., worked with the FBI, both as an agent and supervisor in the area of counterintelligence and counterterrorism handling complex multinational investigations. He is presently an adjunct faculty member at the FBI's Counterintelligence Division...

...Joe first realized that his skill set could be applicable to poker after filming a Discovery Channel special entitled “More Than Human” where he met Annie Duke in a test of human lie detectors against machine lie detectors.

He then applied his craft at Camp Hellmuth, Phil’s poker fantasy camp in August 2005..."

[numbnuts007]

I hate to get all case law up in this piece but:

It is emphatically the province and duty of the JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT to say what the law is. (Marbury v. Madison, 1803)(emphasis added).

[tangled]

There is no doubt they are trying to scare us, but why? The supporters of the UIGEA went out of their way to tell us they were not going after the individual player. So why the change? I think it is because they know the UIGEA is not working like they hoped. According to an article already linked here in this forum, American participation in online gaming has only fallen off by 20%. Prohibition did a lot better than that.

Yes, the FBI has made some arrests, but think of how much effort has gone into this, and there still are plenty of places to play.

[bossplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate to get all case law up in this piece but:

It is emphatically the province and duty of the JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT to say what the law is. (Marbury v. Madison, 1803)(emphasis added).

[/ QUOTE ]

If so, shouldn't there be some case law to support that online gambling is illegal (other than sports betting)? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Quanah Parker]

I'm not a regular visitor to the FBI website, and the "online gambler is illegal" proclamation just seems strange.

Here's the topics listed for their May Headlines:
May 30 Corporate Fraud Melts Big Cheese
May 25 Looking For Our Children
May 23 On the Murder-for-Hire Beat
May 21 Scam Offers Cheap Plasma TVs
May 18 International Jewel Thief Rings
May 16 FBI Releases Bank Crime Stats
May 14 Pictorial History of FBI Academy
May 10 Preventing Terror Radicalization
May 8 FBI Probe Busts N.J. Terror Plot
May 7 Digital Forensics Labs Report
May 4 Shore Up Your Wireless Security
May 2 Muslim Targeted in Hate Crime

These topics are kind of what I'd expect from a FBI website...but not the online poker article.

Somebody has an agenda that they're pushing.

[oldbookguy]

Perhaps they are trying to fight back, we are making progress.

Also, that stance has been the position of the Bush administration even in light of all case law to the contrary concerning Internet Casinos not being covered by any law until the UIGEA and even that may not cover Poker.....

obg

[MasterLJ]

They are using blanket statements about "gambling". Sportsbetting is illegal... poker is not. Sites that specifically offer poker are doing nothing wrong.

Gamble on.