R. Wexler (D-FL) to introduce legislation exempting poker from UIGEA!!

[TheEngineer]

Excellent news!!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSN0643855220070606

US lawmaker to seek online gambling ban exemptions
Wed Jun 6, 2007 5:48PM EDT
By Peter Kaplan

WASHINGTON, June 6 (Reuters) - A Florida congressman is expected to introduce legislation on Thursday exempting poker and some other games from the Internet gambling ban passed by Congress last year, the lawmaker's aide said on Wednesday.

The bill planned by Democratic Rep. Robert Wexler would carve out "skill games" such as online poker, bridge, chess and mahjong from the online gambling prohibition that President George W. Bush signed into law in October.

"It allows Americans to play poker online as they should have every right to do," a Wexler spokesman, Josh Rogin said on Wednesday.

The online gambling ban passed last year made it illegal for banks and credit card companies to make payments to online gambling sites.

Wexler's bill will be unveiled the day before the House Financial Services Committee is scheduled to hold a hearing on the subject at the behest of Rep. Barney Frank, the committee chairman and an outspoken critic of the online gambling ban.

The subject of Friday's hearing will be legislation Frank introduced that would more broadly roll back the online gambling ban. Rogin said Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat, is also supportive of Wexler's bill.

Scheduled to tesify at Friday's hearing are the heads of several online payment processors.

Wexler is a member of the financial services panel, as well as the House Judiciary Committee.

Rogin said skill games should be treated differently from games of pure chance. "You win and lose based on your ability," he said. "It's a deserving distinction."

Frank has conceded he does not yet have enough support in Congress to rescind the online gambling ban. The ban won majorities among both Republicans and Democrats and opponents of online gambling have vowed to fight efforts to rescind it.

The ban also irked some in the European Union, which is home to some online gambling companies that were forced to withdraw from the United States. It has been closely monitored by investors in some British-based gaming companies, such as Partygaming Plc (PRTY.L: Quote, Profile, Research and 888 Holdings Plc (888.L: Quote, Profile, Research.

In a crackdown on Internet gambling, U.S. prosecutors arrested BETonSPORTS' then- chief executive in July and its founder last month. Two founders of payments processor NETeller Plc were arrested in January.

[BUTNAHHHH]

CMON congress one time

[MiltonFriedman]

Let Frank study for a year or so, but support the Wexler bill ... if it really exempts poker.

Let's see what is introduced Thursday.

David

[ImsaKidd]

CHRISTMAS COMES EARLY THIS YEAR PLZ PLZ PLZ.

This is really awesome though. Theres like 3 different "prongs" of the anti UIGEA attack.

1: This bill
2: Suit against Gonzalez
3: Whatever Frank is up to.

Let us gogogogogo

[dontmesswithme]

First the Colbert interview, now this. If this guy ran for President I'd actually vote for once.

[SoftcoreRevolt]

[ QUOTE ]
CMON congress one time

[/ QUOTE ]

This is all I have to say.

[MiltonFriedman]

"If this guy ran for President, I'd actually vote for once"

Once? You're not from Chicago.

[Zele]

It's worth noting again that Wexler was a UIGEA supporter, and seems to have changed his mind quite a bit. Let this be a lesson to us.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
It's worth noting again that Wexler was a UIGEA supporter, and seems to have changed his mind quite a bit. Let this be a lesson to us.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it's good to remember he used to support banning Internet gaming. He even spoke on the floor in favor of an early ban. He came around and voted against HR 4411 (the bill that became UIGEA), and now he's leading the charge for us. Peter King made a similar about-face. It's possible, so I sure hope everyone here will continue to write and call Congress, the DOJ, and the Treasury Dept.

We've been working hard, and good things are starting to happen. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[oldbookguy]

[ QUOTE ]
It's worth noting again that Wexler was a UIGEA supporter, and seems to have changed his mind quite a bit. Let this be a lesson to us.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, true.
You know that old saying, hell was paved with good intentions, lol.
Even republican Pete King of N.Y. on the house Services Committee said the bill went farther than they thought and there was never an intention to ban poker. He is a sponsor of Frank''s bill. You may remember King, he was the one on TV (C-Span) the night it was passed heading up the GOP that night in the house.

obg

[Legislurker]

All we need is what Frist needed. A must pass bill and a powerful leader in the conference committee or majority leadership to tack it on. We can introduce these bills all we want, pass them in the house, but Kyl has votes and like- minded fucktards in the Senate with procedural stall moves to kill this. If passed alone, it could be vetoed. If it happens, it will happen like lightning. This is just good momentum, good but still only momentum.

[Grasshopp3r]

There are plenty of important bills that will sail through with this attached. The key is having the speaker, which is Pelosi. At least she can take some vindictive pleasure in sticking it to Kyl with this.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
All we need is what Frist needed. A must pass bill and a powerful leader in the conference committee or majority leadership to tack it on. We can introduce these bills all we want, pass them in the house, but Kyl has votes and like- minded fucktards in the Senate with procedural stall moves to kill this. If passed alone, it could be vetoed. If it happens, it will happen like lightning. This is just good momentum, good but still only momentum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good momentum is a good thing. Some here think we should oppose any bill that doesn't meet 100% of what they want. We have a couple of posters here who don't believe in building momentum. They argue that we should oppose IGREA, then sit back and wait for some politician to stick his neck out for us. Well, you and I know it doesn't work that way. Our opposition to UIGEA helped us get IGREA. Our support of IGREA got us this poker bill. Our support for the poker bill will get us further opportunities, or our victory. We just have to keep chipping away. At worst, we keep our opponents on the defensive.

Good job team!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[antneye]

There is a definite shift in momentum, and any half wit can see that it has been caused by red blooded americans rallying and letting their voices be heard. Does anyone really think all of this is happeing because these people realize they made a mistake? Hell no. It is happening because the poker lobby (us) is crying out in unison.

Now is not the time to get comlacet. If anything we need to double our efforts.

We just picked up some outs on the turn. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TheEngineer]

They realize they made a mistake. Their mistake was [censored] with the wrong Americans!

[sevencard2003]

id much rather see poker get an exemption that see online slots still be legal, i wish theyd get rid of all slots and BS, cause i hate the way online casinos wont let u play BJ and poker and make u play slots to get ur bonuses, or else make u bet 50x as much. get sick and tired of explaining to people the DIFFERNECE between poker and games thats ALL PURE LUCK. this bill would be the best thing that could happen. and im glad pokerstars and full tilt never caved in like absolute did and begin offering blackjack.

[CountingMyOuts]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a definite shift in momentum, and any half wit can see that it has been caused by red blooded americans rallying and letting their voices be heard. Does anyone really think all of this is happeing because these people realize they made a mistake? Hell no. It is happening because the poker lobby (us) is crying out in unison.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spot on, brother. Frank and Wexler aren't introducing legislation out of the goodness of their hearts.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is a definite shift in momentum, and any half wit can see that it has been caused by red blooded americans rallying and letting their voices be heard. Does anyone really think all of this is happeing because these people realize they made a mistake? Hell no. It is happening because the poker lobby (us) is crying out in unison.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spot on, brother. Frank and Wexler aren't introducing legislation out of the goodness of their hearts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frank was with us before there was an "us". With our efforts, we're making other politicians realize they should be with us as well. Let's keep it up.

[BluffTHIS!]

There are indeed a lot of things going on to provide some positive momentum. And as noted above, this is because of the vocal efforts of poker players, as well as external issues like the WTO issue and the distate of many in Europe for prosecutions of Euro companies in the gaming industry.

However we should note that as far as domestic legislation goes, all these efforts so far have been in the house. And even were something positive like Rep. Frank's or Rep. Weixler's bills to pass in a stand alone fashion there, they would face the inevitable hold in the senate from Kyl and others and be blocked. Thus what is needed is not only the language of some bill or other favorable to our cause to be fashioned, but then for that to be passed in the very same manner as the UIGEA passed, i.e. by being attached in conference committee to must pass legislation. Long shot as that is, it is our only shot this year.

So right now, Reps Frank and Weixler, the PPA and all of us poker players, need to be focusing as well on the chairmen of various senate committees, and cultivating one or more to be willing to pass this in that manner. And naturally that means that in addition to Speaker Pelosi, Sen. Reid also has to be so willing to go along, especially Reid. And for that to happen, he will definitely have to be able to see that domestic gaming companies are given a piece of the pie.

There are a lot of hurdles on the track, and we're barely out of the starting gate.

[Weebl]

Yes R Wexler!

I have sent emails to my Sens and Reps supporting this action.

gogogogo.

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
CMON congress one mother [censored] time

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[Russ M.]

[ QUOTE ]
It's worth noting again that Wexler was a UIGEA supporter, and seems to have changed his mind quite a bit. Let this be a lesson to us.

[/ QUOTE ]

Payoffs and/or threats from the mob FTW! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[frommagio]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a definite shift in momentum, and any half wit can see that it has been caused by red blooded americans rallying and letting their voices be heard. Does anyone really think all of this is happeing because these people realize they made a mistake? Hell no. It is happening because the poker lobby (us) is crying out in unison.

Now is not the time to get comlacet. If anything we need to double our efforts.

We just picked up some outs on the turn. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes, indeed! But please don't personally contact your representatives in writing on our behalf. Thanks!

[Perseus]

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CMON congress one mother [censored] time

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[kidpokeher]

Strangely, Frank alluded to this bill in his interview on holdemradio. He doesn't like the idea of exemptions for certain games and joked about canasta ladies wanting an exemption next.

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

so when do franks and wexler's bills get voted on?

also, how do i register to vote? i live overseas.

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
Strangely, Frank alluded to this bill in his interview on holdemradio. He doesn't like the idea of exemptions for certain games and joked about canasta ladies wanting an exemption next.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frank can go [censored] himself then.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Strangely, Frank alluded to this bill in his interview on holdemradio. He doesn't like the idea of exemptions for certain games and joked about canasta ladies wanting an exemption next.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frank can go [censored] himself then.

[/ QUOTE ]

A carve-out for poker isnt' Frank's preference, but he is a supporter of Wexler's legislation. I'm not sure if he'll cosponsor or not....I guess we'll find out today.

[Reef]

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CMON congress one mother [censored] time

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[antneye]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is a definite shift in momentum, and any half wit can see that it has been caused by red blooded americans rallying and letting their voices be heard. Does anyone really think all of this is happeing because these people realize they made a mistake? Hell no. It is happening because the poker lobby (us) is crying out in unison.

Now is not the time to get comlacet. If anything we need to double our efforts.

We just picked up some outs on the turn. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes, indeed! But please don't personally contact your representatives in writing on our behalf. Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol.....I was typing fast...this IS a forum after all. I am much more cautious in official correspondence.

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

he introduces the legislature, what does that mean?

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
he introduces the legislature, what does that mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

It means it gets a number /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Novles]

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CMON congress one mother [censored] time you mother [censored]!

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[TehPokarKing]

[ QUOTE ]
he introduces the legislature, what does that mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

It basically means that the legislation is on file in the House and that the Speaker will send it to a relevant standing committee (the Financial Services Committee in this case) where they will take testimony and decide whether or not to recommend the bill for passage to the whole House.

That's the sort of non-political version of how things sort of move through the House. There are lots of procedural tricks that can be used by opponents and supporters to slow down/kill or speed the bill through the process. One that was used to pass the ban in the first place and will likely need to be used to get this through is to attach it as an amendment to another, more important, must-pass bill so that debate is limited and crowded out.

[PBJaxx]

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CMON congress one mother [censored] time you mother [censored]!

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[JuntMonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's worth noting again that Wexler was a UIGEA supporter, and seems to have changed his mind quite a bit. Let this be a lesson to us.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, true.
You know that old saying, hell was paved with good intentions, lol.
Even republican Pete King of N.Y. on the house Services Committee said the bill went farther than they thought and there was never an intention to ban poker. He is a sponsor of Frank''s bill. You may remember King, he was the one on TV (C-Span) the night it was passed heading up the GOP that night in the house.

obg

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that it makes much of a difference, but King likely "flipped" because of D'Amato, as they're both from NY and are good buddies.

[Mrage]

[ QUOTE ]
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CMON congress one mother [censored] time you mother [censored]!

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[/ QUOTE ]Yeah this is like the equivalent of making a runner-runner but ffs one time

[PokerBob]

Wexler was the name of my favorite bot on wpx.

[TheEngineer]

Here's a statement by PPA on the Wexler bill. I'm looking forward to reading the actual legislation.

---------------------------

http://pokerplayersalliance.org/news/newsandarticles_article.php?DID=173

Poker Players Alliance Strongly Supports Wexler Introduction Of ‘Skill Game’ Legislation
by Poker Players Alliance


POKER PLAYERS ALLIANCE STRONGLY SUPPORTS WEXLER INTRODUCTION OF ‘SKILL GAME’ LEGISLATION

Plan Would Provide Rightful Protections to Online Poker Under the Law

Washington, DC (June 7, 2007) – The Poker Players Alliance (PPA), a grassroots advocacy group of nearly 550,000 members, today enthusiastically supports Congressman Robert Wexler (D-FL) legislation that clarifies existing law and provides rightful protections for poker and other games of skill under both the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA) and the WIRE Act of 1961.

“Congressman Wexler’s bill is a positive development for the millions of American poker players who enjoy one of our nation’s great pastimes,” Senator Alfonse D’Amato, PPA Chairman of the Board. “Poker and other games of skill have fallen victim to bad public policy. Wexler’s plan will give skill games the rightful protection they deserve and it will require the proper safeguards to protect children and those prone to abuse.”

The online gambling ban that Congress passed last year, UIGEA, created confusion as to whether or not it applies to skill games such as poker, chess, bridge, and mah jong. The Wexler plan clarifies existing law by recognizing that skill games—games where individuals compete against each other—are separate and distinct forms of gaming and should be afforded protection under the law. In addition, the bill goes further than the UIGEA to require real safeguards for consumers. The plan requires that Web sites use the best age verification technologies, provide services for problem gamblers and abide by monetary controls to detect and stop money laundering activities. Currently, no form of Internet gaming (i.e. horse racing, lotteries and fantasy sports) is subject to these types of regulations under current law.

“Congressman Wexler’s legislation is necessary to provide equitable treatment for true games of intellect and competitions among individuals,” said Senator D’Amato. “This skill based competition is the true spirit of the game, and the reason for its popularity whether it is played at the World Series of Poker, over the internet or at your kitchen table. Americans have played poker responsibly throughout our history and the Wexler bill will ensure that the game is enjoyed for years to come.”

[Methodz]

K, I'd first like to say that my knowledge on the Gov. and bills and such is very limited, so the following question will be very stupid.

That being said, if this bill ends up passing, does that mean party comes back?

[vgs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Strangely, Frank alluded to this bill in his interview on holdemradio. He doesn't like the idea of exemptions for certain games and joked about canasta ladies wanting an exemption next.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frank can go [censored] himself then.

[/ QUOTE ]

A carve-out for poker isnt' Frank's preference, but he is a supporter of Wexler's legislation. I'm not sure if he'll cosponsor or not....I guess we'll find out today.

[/ QUOTE ]

carve out for poker is easier to pass

[Coy_Roy]

[ QUOTE ]
carve out for poker is easier to pass

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure that's true.

[bossplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
carve out for poker is easier to pass

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure that's true.

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally agree.

[Tuff_Fish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
carve out for poker is easier to pass

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure that's true.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sure it is true.

Tuff

PS and, no, Party won't be coming back. Commerce/Bike/Harrah's online will be available though.

[shadow.]

are there hearings tomorrow? where? i'm in d.c. and would like to go to them if possible.

holla

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
are there hearings tomorrow? where? i'm in d.c. and would like to go to them if possible.

holla

[/ QUOTE ]

The PPA page has info

[Ron Burgundy]

So did the bill get introduced today? How long until the text gets posted on the web?

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
are there hearings tomorrow? where? i'm in d.c. and would like to go to them if possible.

holla

[/ QUOTE ]

The PPA page has info

[/ QUOTE ]

FYI...there are hearings tomorrow, but they're on IGREA

[dlk9s]

[ QUOTE ]
id much rather see poker get an exemption that see online slots still be legal, i wish theyd get rid of all slots and BS, cause i hate the way online casinos wont let u play BJ and poker and make u play slots to get ur bonuses, or else make u bet 50x as much.


[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[sevencard2003]

thanks to full tilt and stars for sticking to just poker and not offering sportsbook, BJ and other games like some sites have along with poker. way to go guys, maybe u could get approved for a license if this bill passes.

[JMa]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
carve out for poker is easier to pass

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure that's true.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sure it is true.

Tuff

PS and, no, Party won't be coming back. Commerce/Bike/Harrah's online will be available though.

[/ QUOTE ]

would non-americans be able to play at those sites?

[vinyard]

[ QUOTE ]

I am sure it is true.

Tuff

PS and, no, Party won't be coming back. Commerce/Bike/Harrah's online will be available though.

[/ QUOTE ] Die, please. Thanks

[TheEngineer]

Wexler has just introduced H.R. 2610, the Skill Game Protection Act

Text at http://pokerplayersalliance.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/110-_wexler_001_poker_final-2.pdf

Track at http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-2610

[TheEngineer]

No cosponsors listed yet. The bill has been referred to the following committees:

House Financial Services
House Judiciary
House Energy and Commerce

[1p0kerboy]

Engineer, have you read through the bill yet?

I noticed some parts about requiring "regulation" of the operators.

How does this compare to the Frank bill in your opinion?

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Engineer, have you read through the bill yet?

I noticed some parts about requiring "regulation" of the operators.

How does this compare to the Frank bill in your opinion?

[/ QUOTE ]

It looks good. I think we can all get behind this AND IGREA. I hope everyone will remember that we're not strong enough to divide up our efforts in favor of one or the other.

My ten-minute analysis:

- The bill defines poker (and some other games) as a "game of skill". It provides a definition of skill that provides for chance factor caused by random nature of cards.

- "For some Americans, these games provide their primary source of income." Nice to have this text in the bill.

- Modifies the Wire Act to exempt skill games.

[ QUOTE ]
Despite the fact that the language in section 1084 of title 18, United States Code, commonly referred to as the ‘‘Wire Act’’, has been interpreted by Federal courts as applying only to betting on sports, some in law enforcement interpret the section as prohibiting the acceptance of both sports and non-sports betting through a communications device.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
15 Section 1084 of title 18, United States Code, is
16 amended by adding at the end the following new sub
17 section: (f)
18 ‘‘(f) As used in this section, the term ‘bets or wagers’
19 does not include operating, or participation in, poker,
20 chess, bridge, mahjong or any other game where success
21 is predominantly determined by a player’s skill....

[/ QUOTE ]

- Feds "should take appropriate steps" to ensure that minors cannot play, compulsive gamblers are identified and referred to treatment, geographic location is verified, games not susceptible to use for money laundering, and appropriate taxes are collected.

- Games cannot be offered where prohibited by states. No governor "opt-out" provision. Rather, state law governs.

[ QUOTE ]
Appropriate safeguards to ensure that the individual participant is physically located in a jurisdiction that does not bar participation in the particular Internet games of skill in which the individual participates at the time in the individual participates.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Legislurker]

As for getting behind something, maybe the general tone of contacting Congresspeople should be more general support. Stress things we want. We are NOT going to get one of these bills as written, UIGEA taught us that. This [censored] wont fly in the Senate, one senator has too much power, so this has to go through a joint committee on an important bill. We need to define a list of characteristics, though like everything in our for sale country, industry will write the regulations. Maybe a generic letter mentioning all three bills, with a list of good points from all of them, and some good natured support of the hard work on a politically tricky issue.

[TheEngineer]

So, what does the bill get us? Well, it explictly permits and regulates interstate and international "skill gambling", so we'll see advertising again, along with the other good stuff that comes with legal businesses. It also provides the national framework states need to license online poker sites in their own states (few if any states would be interested in licensing instate-only Internet poker). And, it provides a national definition for games of skill vs. games of chance with regards to poker.

It seems (at least to this non-lawyer) that states would have to specifically ban poker (either by name or by banning all skill gambling).

[ QUOTE ]
16 (4) Games where success is predominantly de
17 termined by the skill of the players involved, as a
18 matter of law and of policy, are distinct from the
19 games of chance traditionally described and ad
20 dressed in Federal and State gambling statutes.

[/ QUOTE ]

States that now only ban games of chance may find it harder to ban poker now than they did 100 years ago when they passed the laws on the books today. It will be up to people like us to keep that from happening.

[sevencard2003]

having poker treated as a skill game is a whole lot more impt than barney franks bill. i could care less if all these damn online slots casinos went outta business. they are whats ruined it for the rest of us and gave gambling a bad name.

[briton]

[ QUOTE ]
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carve out for poker is easier to pass

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure that's true.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sure it is true.

Tuff

PS and, no, Party won't be coming back. Commerce/Bike/Harrah's online will be available though.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would suck if we only had American Casinos with just poker allowed.

Of course it may be better than nothing. But I want Crytos and Party back!! Not to mention Pinnacle. I would LOVE to get pinny back.

Cant ya imagine the rush of bonuses if all the sudden Americans where back in the game!

I dont mean to be picky, but damn... If we have a say what-so ever it would be nice to get a bill that our government will not be able to assrape us everyday. I pay taxes on my profits and that is bad enough! I wish they would quit F***ing with my personal rights!

Briton

[Mr.K]

[ QUOTE ]
Thus what is needed is not only the language of some bill or other favorable to our cause to be fashioned, but then for that to be passed in the very same manner as the UIGEA passed, i.e. by being attached in conference committee to must pass legislation. Long shot as that is, it is our only shot this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aside from an amendment to the relevant FY08 appropriations bill directing that "none of the funds provided by this Act may be used for enforcement measures pursuant to UIGEA," you are correct.

Thanks for helping direct the discussion, BluffThis, and keep up the good work. Keeping a high level of grassroots energy while tempering expectations is difficult, as the two goals often conflict.

The bottom line here, folks, is that the Senate is a much larger challenge than you are giving credit for. Bills with massive grassroots support and financial backing -- even presidential backing -- have passed the House over the years only to die in the Senate. If you want a good case study, search for what has happened to Associated Health Plan (AHP) legislation over the past 6 years or so. Passed the House a million times, part of the SOTU address, dead as a doornail in the Senate. That's our government!

[Mr.K]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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carve out for poker is easier to pass

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure that's true.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sure it is true.



[/ QUOTE ]


Not so fast. There are some very complex considerations that go into which one is easier to pass. These considerations include overt factors such as which policy hsa a broader impact, as well as covert factors such as which one the people writing big PAC checks prefer. I do not know which will be easier, but for anyone in this forum to proclaim that they do is silly.

[Mr.K]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Engineer, have you read through the bill yet?

I noticed some parts about requiring "regulation" of the operators.

How does this compare to the Frank bill in your opinion?

[/ QUOTE ]

It looks good. I think we can all get behind this AND IGREA. I hope everyone will remember that we're not strong enough to divide up our efforts in favor of one or the other.

My ten-minute analysis:

- The bill defines poker (and some other games) as a "game of skill". It provides a definition of skill that provides for chance factor caused by random nature of cards.

- "For some Americans, these games provide their primary source of income." Nice to have this text in the bill.

- Modifies the Wire Act to exempt skill games.

[ QUOTE ]
Despite the fact that the language in section 1084 of title 18, United States Code, commonly referred to as the ‘‘Wire Act’’, has been interpreted by Federal courts as applying only to betting on sports, some in law enforcement interpret the section as prohibiting the acceptance of both sports and non-sports betting through a communications device.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
15 Section 1084 of title 18, United States Code, is
16 amended by adding at the end the following new sub
17 section: (f)
18 ‘‘(f) As used in this section, the term ‘bets or wagers’
19 does not include operating, or participation in, poker,
20 chess, bridge, mahjong or any other game where success
21 is predominantly determined by a player’s skill....

[/ QUOTE ]

- Feds "should take appropriate steps" to ensure that minors cannot play, compulsive gamblers are identified and referred to treatment, geographic location is verified, games not susceptible to use for money laundering, and appropriate taxes are collected.

- Games cannot be offered where prohibited by states. No governor "opt-out" provision. Rather, state law governs.

[ QUOTE ]
Appropriate safeguards to ensure that the individual participant is physically located in a jurisdiction that does not bar participation in the particular Internet games of skill in which the individual participates at the time in the individual participates.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Good summary.

[redbeard]

mr. k - do you think there is any way that an online poker bill gets through the senate with kyl and a hold lurking over there? what would you say the chances are of any new legislation getting through both houses of congress by this time next year? as always thanks for your voice of reason in regards to legislative matters and the workings of congress.

[TheEngineer]

Rep. Bennie G. Thompson [D-MS] has become the first cosponsor of Wexler's SGPA.

[arod4276]

does he have any special clout engineer?

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
does he have any special clout engineer?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's the Chairman of the U.S. House Committee on Homeland Security.

[arod4276]

very interesting...doesnt seem like the type to co-spomsor.

thanks for the info

[CybrPunk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
does he have any special clout engineer?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's the Chairman of the U.S. House Committee on Homeland Security.

[/ QUOTE ]

The statement this makes about online poker and the governments assertion that it can fund terrorism is enormous.

[1meandog4u]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
does he have any special clout engineer?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's the Chairman of the U.S. House Committee on Homeland Security.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to add my "tip of the hat" to you Engineer for all your efforts during what is a trying time for all of us with money tied up.. thanks again.

[The Bandit Fish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's worth noting again that Wexler was a UIGEA supporter, and seems to have changed his mind quite a bit. Let this be a lesson to us.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it's good to remember he used to support banning Internet gaming. He even spoke on the floor in favor of an early ban. He came around and voted against HR 4411 (the bill that became UIGEA), and now he's leading the charge for us. Peter King made a similar about-face. It's possible, so I sure hope everyone here will continue to write and call Congress, the DOJ, and the Treasury Dept.

We've been working hard, and good things are starting to happen. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a classic case of "wait most of it was BS? Oh and I can tax it!? I'm all-in" /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's worth noting again that Wexler was a UIGEA supporter, and seems to have changed his mind quite a bit. Let this be a lesson to us.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it's good to remember he used to support banning Internet gaming. He even spoke on the floor in favor of an early ban. He came around and voted against HR 4411 (the bill that became UIGEA), and now he's leading the charge for us. Peter King made a similar about-face. It's possible, so I sure hope everyone here will continue to write and call Congress, the DOJ, and the Treasury Dept.

We've been working hard, and good things are starting to happen. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a classic case of "wait most of it was BS? Oh and I can tax it!? I'm all-in" /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so. He voted against HR 4411 (which because IGREA), and there was no provision to tax that. Some of these guys have a knee-jerk reaction against gambling, but are willing to listen to the facts.

Others don't like the unregulated nature of gambling and are willing to vote for a regulated framework. Finally, some are willing to do it just for the tax revenue. Hopefully we'll flip enough congressmen this year to grow our movement.

[blutarski]

[ QUOTE ]
CMON congress one time

[/ QUOTE ]

one time, ONE TIME BAYBEEE!!!

[TheEngineer]

The SGPA now has 10 cosponsors! HR 2610, the Skill Game Protection Act, is being cosponsored by the following congressmen:

Rep Ackerman, Gary L. [NY-5]
Rep Berkley, Shelley [NV-1]
Rep Capuano, Michael E. [MA-8]
Rep Cohen, Steve [TN-9]
Rep Hastings, Alcee L. [FL-23]
Rep Larson, John B. [CT-1]
Rep Moran, James P. [VA-8]
Rep Sanchez, Linda T. [CA-39]
Rep Thompson, Bennie G. [MS-2]
Rep Weiner, Anthony D. [NY-9]

[Uglyowl]

[ QUOTE ]
The SGPA now has 10 cosponsors! HR 2610, the Skill Game Protection Act, is being cosponsored by the following congressmen:

Rep Moran, James P. [VA-8]

[/ QUOTE ]

James Moran was a co-sponsor of UIGEA, so it looks like he may have flopped. He is also my wifes friends uncle so it jumped out at me.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The SGPA now has 10 cosponsors! HR 2610, the Skill Game Protection Act, is being cosponsored by the following congressmen:

Rep Moran, James P. [VA-8]

[/ QUOTE ]

James Moran was a co-sponsor of UIGEA, so it looks like he may have flopped. He is also my wifes friends uncle so it jumped out at me.



[/ QUOTE ]

he also has a badass last name

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The SGPA now has 10 cosponsors! HR 2610, the Skill Game Protection Act, is being cosponsored by the following congressmen:

Rep Moran, James P. [VA-8]

[/ QUOTE ]

James Moran was a co-sponsor of UIGEA, so it looks like he may have flopped. He is also my wifes friends uncle so it jumped out at me.



[/ QUOTE ]

Some of these guys voted for UIGEA because they didn't like the unregulated, untaxed nature of offshore casinos. Many will support a regulated structure. Others will support skill-based games but not negative-expectation games. Only a minority oppose gambling in general, and only some of those feel a need to legislate prohibition. Hopefully we'll be able to flip all the ones who are willing to support poker, while voting the rest of them out.

[TheEngineer]

The SGPA cosponsors:

Rep. Gary Ackerman [D-NY], opposed HR 4411, cosponsoring IGREA
Rep. Shelley Berkley [D-NV], opposed HR 4411, introduced amendment to HR 4411 to include horse racing and fantasy football to expose hypocrisy of prohibitionists, cosponsor/sponsor of all pending pro-Internet gaming bills
Rep. Michael Capuano [D-MA], opposed HR 4411, cosponsoring IGREA
Rep. Steve Cohen [D-TN], not in the 109th Congress,not cosponsoring IGREA
Rep. Alcee Hastings [D-FL], opposed HR 4411,cosponsoring IGREA
Rep. John Larson [D-CT], supported HR 4411, not cosponsoring IGREA
Rep. James Moran [D-VA], supported HR 4411, not cosponsoring IGREA
Rep. Linda Sanchez [D-CA], opposed HR 4411, cosponsoring IGREA
Rep. Bennie Thompson [D-MS], supported HR 4411, cosponsoring IGREA
Rep. Anthony Weiner [D-NY], opposed HR 4411, cosponsoring IGREA

[oldbookguy]

This bill has the most interesting co-sponsors and may be a best bet since several sponsors here are not supporting Frank's bill.

obg

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
The SGPA cosponsors:

Rep. Gary Ackerman [D-NY], opposed HR 4411, cosponsoring IGREA
Rep. Shelley Berkley [D-NV], opposed HR 4411, introduced amendment to HR 4411 to include horse racing and fantasy football to expose hypocrisy of prohibitionists, cosponsor/sponsor of all pending pro-Internet gaming bills
Rep. Michael Capuano [D-MA], opposed HR 4411, cosponsoring IGREA
Rep. Steve Cohen [D-TN], not in the 109th Congress,not cosponsoring IGREA
Rep. Alcee Hastings [D-FL], opposed HR 4411,cosponsoring IGREA
Rep. John Larson [D-CT], supported HR 4411, not cosponsoring IGREA
Rep. James Moran [D-VA], supported HR 4411, not cosponsoring IGREA
Rep. Linda Sanchez [D-CA], opposed HR 4411, cosponsoring IGREA
Rep. Bennie Thompson [D-MS], supported HR 4411, cosponsoring IGREA
Rep. Anthony Weiner [D-NY], opposed HR 4411, cosponsoring IGREA

[/ QUOTE ]

Rep. Tim Ryan [D-OH] cosponsored SGPA today. He voted for HR 4411. He's cosponsoring the Berkley study bill but not IGREA.

[TheEngineer]

Rep Edolphus Towns [D-NY] cosponsored SPGA today, bringing us up to 12. Rep. Towns opposed HR 4411 and cosponsored IGREA.

[ktulu22]

Ryan is my rep - he has heard from me on multiple occassions