Compiled Small Stakes stats

[CallMeIshmael]

Hey all,

attached is a preliminary post of the stats from the 2/4 and 3/6 games.

I wanted to do a little more (I also still have to post the correlations), but I also wanted to post this sometime today.. and I'll be running from 9-10 or so, I'll just kinda put this out there now...

There are a few interesting things I'd like to point out... but I'll probably have to wait until tomorrow

This is sort of a rough draft... and I would appreciate anyone's input as to what might make it better.

Big questions:

a) Anything that seems like a typeo?
b) Layout? Is it clear? Im not great with that kinda thing.
c) What do you think of the 0.5 SD range? That was an arbitrary choice. It is flexible...

EDIT: I am interested in keeping this going... so, I will keep the info stored in an splus file on my comp, and would be willing to add to the ball, and update once every 2 months or so.

[CallMeIshmael]

Introduction:


The intent of this post is NOT to have players change their game in an effort
to make their stats look more like those presented.

This post is intended to give people who are curious about their stats an idea as
to where other winning players stand. The one-half standard deviation range about
the mean is probably a good range for your stats to be in.

It is very likely that winning players exist whose stats fall outside of many
or all of these ranges. Likewise, it is very likely that some losing players
have stats which fall within all of these ranges.

Stats are great for plugging large leaks. If a player has a VPIP of 8.2% or 34.1%,
they clearly are not playing an optimul number of hands. Examining stats will not
take a 1.5BB/100 winner, and turn him/her into a 2.2BB/100 winner. These improvements
need play time and hand posts.

You might be calling the correct pecentage of river bets, but that doesn't tell us
that you are calling the RIGHT rivers.






Preface:


The two most commonly used statistics when measuring a group of data are: mean
and standard variation.


Mean: This is simply the average. You add all the numbers together, and divide
by the total number of observations.

Standard Deviation: This is the measure of spread. I will leave the complicated
formula out of this. Basically, the further the data tends to fall from the mean, the
greater the standard deviation.

For example:

{5,7,9,11,13} and {1,3,9,15,17}

have the same mean: 9, but the second set has a greater standard deviation.

In addition to these two statistics, the following will also be used:

A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: This is a range that measures

from
0.5 standard deviations below the mean to 0.5 standard deviations above the mean.

For example: In a data set with: mean = 10; standard deviation = 6;

This range is: 7 - 13.


Min: Smallest datum in the set.


Max: Largest datum in the set.





Methodology:


I asked for stat submissions from 2/4 and 3/6 players in the small stakes forum.

I received 21 sets of stats from 2/4 players and 10 from 3/6 players.

(This ended up being roughly 504,000 hands for 2/4 and 313,000 for 3/6).

Using S-Plus software, I proceeded to compute the data in the preface.



Findings:


2/4:


VPIP:

Mean: 17.9
Standard Deviation: 3.18
Min: 13.13
Max: 27.75
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 16.31-19.49


VPIP in SB:

Mean: 30.24
Standard Deviation: 6.09
Min: 20.91
Max: 48.78
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 27.19-33.28


Folded SB to steal:

Mean: 83.01
Standard Deviation: 7.20
Min: 67.88
Max: 91.43
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 79.41-86.61


Folded BB to steal:

Mean: 63.09
Standard Deviation: 13.51
Min: 20.51
Max: 79.12
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 56.33-69.84


Attempted to steal blinds:

Mean: 27.19
Standard Deviation: 4.70
Min: 19.29
Max: 33.33
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 24.84-29.54


Won $ WSF:

Mean: 33.27
Standard Deviation: 2.28
Min: 29.60
Max: 37.89
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 32.13-34.41


Went to SD %:

Mean: 31.73
Standard Deviation: 3.11
Min: 26.74
Max: 37.99
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 30.18-33.29


Won $ at SD %:

Mean: 53.87
Standard Deviation: 3.73
Min: 47.77
Max: 60.17
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 52.00-55.73


Preflop Raise %:

Mean: 9.22
Standard Deviation: 1.56
Min: 6.84
Max: 12.56
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 8.44-10.00


Flop aggression factor:

Mean: 2.85
Standard Deviation: 0.64
Min: 1.86
Max: 3.98
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 2.53-3.17


Turn aggression factor:

Mean: 2.82
Standard Deviation: 0.35
Min: 2.12
Max: 3.55
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 2.64-2.99


River aggression factor:

Mean: 2.10
Standard Deviation: 0.24
Min: 1.60
Max: 2.55
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 1.98-2.22


Folded to river bet %:

Mean: 45.84
Standard Deviation: 4.73
Min: 34.81
Max: 56.22
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 43.48-48.21


VPIP from button:

Mean: 20.02
Standard Deviation: 3.50
Min: 15.95
Max: 28.33
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 18.27-21.77


VPIP from one off Button:

Mean: 17.86
Standard Deviation: 2.96
Min: 13.16
Max: 26.82
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 16.38-19.34


VPIP from two off Button:

Mean: 16.48
Standard Deviation: 3.00
Min: 11.71
Max: 25.24
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 14.97-17.98


VPIP from three off Button:

Mean: 15.35
Standard Deviation: 3.25
Min: 11.66
Max: 25.29
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 13.72-16.97


VPIP from four off Button:

Mean: 14.79
Standard Deviation: 3.54
Min: 9.80
Max: 24.41
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 13.02-16.56


VPIP from five off Button:

Mean: 14.49
Standard Deviation: 2.92
Min: 9.58
Max: 23.72
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 13.03-15.95


VPIP from six off Button:

Mean: 14.60
Standard Deviation: 3.14
Min: 9.57
Max: 23.66
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 13.03-16.17


VPIP from seven off Button:

Mean: 14.25
Standard Deviation: 3.54
Min: 7.44
Max: 24.08
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 12.47-16.02


VPIP from BB:

Mean: 17.23
Standard Deviation: 4.39
Min: 11.86
Max: 29.46
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 15.03-19.43


Loss from BB:

Mean: 0.18
Standard Deviation: 0.05
Min: 0.08
Max: 0.28
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 0.15-0.20


Loss from SB:

Mean: 0.11
Standard Deviation: 0.05
Min: 0.02
Max: 0.21
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 0.09-0.14



3/6:


VPIP:

Mean: 17.63
Standard Deviation: 2.92
Min: 14.46
Max: 22.75
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 16.18-19.09


VPIP in SB:

Mean: 24.14
Standard Deviation: 5.17
Min: 18.64
Max: 31.21
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 21.55-26.72


Folded SB to steal:

Mean: 84.12
Standard Deviation: 5.01
Min: 77.67
Max: 91.25
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 81.61-86.62


Folded BB to steal:

Mean: 62.92
Standard Deviation: 12.92
Min: 44.69
Max: 78.65
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 56.46-69.38


Attempted to steal blinds:

Mean: 27.34
Standard Deviation: 6.29
Min: 15.67
Max: 38.62
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 24.19-30.48


Won $ WSF:

Mean: 37.00
Standard Deviation: 2.72
Min: 32.90
Max: 40.96
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 35.64-38.36


Went to SD %:

Mean: 34.50
Standard Deviation: 3.51
Min: 31.24
Max: 41.96
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 32.74-36.25


Won $ at SD %:

Mean: 53.74
Standard Deviation: 3.46
Min: 48.91
Max: 60.36
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 52.01-55.48


Preflop Raise %:

Mean: 9.63
Standard Deviation: 1.73
Min: 6.72
Max: 12.38
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 8.77-10.50


Flop aggression factor:

Mean: 2.90
Standard Deviation: 0.58
Min: 1.92
Max: 3.82
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 2.61-3.16


Turn aggression factor:

Mean: 2.89
Standard Deviation: 0.55
Min: 1.92
Max: 3.82
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 2.62-3.16


River aggression factor:

Mean: 1.94
Standard Deviation: 0.27
Min: 1.63
Max: 2.47
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 1.80-2.07


Folded to river bet %:

Mean: 40.44
Standard Deviation: 7.50
Min: 21.55
Max: 47.61
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 36.69-44.19


VPIP from button:

Mean: 20.45
Standard Deviation: 3.63
Min: 16.57
Max: 25.61
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 18.63-22.27


VPIP from one off Button:

Mean: 18.34
Standard Deviation: 2.88
Min: 14.84
Max: 23.66
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 16.90-19.78


VPIP from two off Button:

Mean: 17.36
Standard Deviation: 2.93
Min: 13.51
Max: 23.16
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 15.90-18.82


VPIP from three off Button:

Mean: 16.06
Standard Deviation: 3.71
Min: 12.79
Max: 22.29
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 14.21-17.92


VPIP from four off Button:

Mean: 15.01
Standard Deviation: 2.94
Min: 12.04
Max: 20.12
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 13.54-16.48


VPIP from five off Button:

Mean: 14.33
Standard Deviation: 2.97
Min: 10.38
Max: 19.81
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 12.84-15.82


VPIP from six off Button:

Mean: 13.70
Standard Deviation: 2.77
Min: 10.12
Max: 19.48
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 12.31-15.09


VPIP from seven off Button:

Mean: 14.35
Standard Deviation: 3.01
Min: 9.29
Max: 18.44
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 12.85-15.86


VPIP from BB:

Mean: 18.30
Standard Deviation: 4.19
Min: 12.55
Max: 23.66
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 16.21-20.40


Loss from BB:

Mean: 0.19
Standard Deviation: 0.06
Min: 0.08
Max: 0.26
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 0.16-0.22


Loss from SB:

Mean: 0.06
Standard Deviation: 0.02
Min: 0.04
Max: 0.09
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 0.05-0.07



Thanks:

I owe many thanks to all those who sent me their stats. As some did it anonymously,
I can't name names here. But you know who you are. Thanks!

[Moozh]

What is the sample size in number of hands submitted and number of people submitting?

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
What is the sample size in number of hands submitted and number of people submitting?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I received 21 sets of stats from 2/4 players and 10 from 3/6 players.

(This ended up being roughly 504,000 hands for 2/4 and 313,000 for 3/6).

[/ QUOTE ]

EDIT: this was under the methodolgy section.

[DMBFan23]

this is really cool stuff. I'd participate in any updates.

I steal more, defend my SB less, and win more often when I see the flop than average. I am also looser from the button. interesting stuff...

[Master5hake]

thanks a lot for your work with this, as someone new to poker tracker and keeping good stats in general, this is extremely helpful /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[RollingRockMike]

Well, I'm not surprised to see that I have the highest VPIP and PFR, though someone beats me from the BB.

Thanks this is interesting. I only wish we could corrolate some of these numbers with actual results. Later,

Mike

[Jeff W]

CallMeIshmael,

Would it be difficult for you to compute baseline SD values for all of the stats you presented? I.E. What is the average SD/100 of a stat like W$SD. Also, what is the standard deviation of the standard deviation of a stat like W$SD. I have always wanted to determine those values for 15/30 full ring and 10/20 6-max, because it would aid PT reads, but I do not have any statistical/database analysis software.

[trentcroad]

Thanks for this info!
Excellent post

[admiralfluff]

This id awesome. Thanks a lot.

Some plots might be easier to look at if you plan on doing more with this.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Some plots might be easier to look at if you plan on doing more with this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking about this, and I could make some graphs for the final (as I said, this was only rough).

My concern is that the links may one day be broken. If Im not mistaken, the links in Homer's post on variance are now broken.

Does anyone know of a webspace that isnt going to go down within the near future?

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Would it be difficult for you to compute baseline SD values for all of the stats you presented? I.E. What is the average SD/100 of a stat like W$SD. Also, what is the standard deviation of the standard deviation of a stat like W$SD. I have always wanted to determine those values for 15/30 full ring and 10/20 6-max, because it would aid PT reads, but I do not have any statistical/database analysis software.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I can do this.

Do you want me to do it for your stats in particualar? Or just the ones presented here?

I'm OK with it, either way.

[rounder911]

Could you also take individual stats, like VP$IP and correllate the range of various players and their corresponding win rates? Essentially setting up a curve showing at what VP$IP the highest average win rate is.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Could you also take individual stats, like VP$IP and correllate the range of various players and their corresponding win rates? Essentially setting up a curve showing at what VP$IP the highest average win rate is.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is something I REALLY want to do... but.. it would require two things:

1) A sample size much larger than I have here
2) People to be comfortable giving out their winrate.

To all out there: would you be OK giving me your winrate (again, it is all done anonymously).

[RollingRockMike]

[ QUOTE ]

To all out there: would you be OK giving me your winrate (again, it is all done anonymously).

[/ QUOTE ]
I sent you mine.

Mike

[brazilio]

I've got my own hosting, and it's not going down. As long as the files aren't huge and I won't have 100k people downloading each and every month, I can do that. PM me.

[crunchy1]

Part Bump - Part Reply......

Nice work Ishmael!! With any luck this post will contribute to a cutback of the many useless "how do my stats look?" and "what should my stats be?" type posts. The best part of your analysis is the presentation of the data giving both an average stat, the min/max stats, and a SD based range. This is a nice proof positive that not everyone needs to have a VP$IP of exactly 17.635%. Yes it's true - player A can win playing 27% of his hands while player B can be sitting across the table and winning as well playing only 13% of his hands.


If we're getting a new sticky post - This thread should be linked!!!!!

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
To all out there: would you be OK giving me your winrate (again, it is all done anonymously).

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure.

Looks like you got a pretty decent sample for all of this. Nice work and thanks.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
I steal more, defend my SB less, and win more often when I see the flop than average. I am also looser from the button. interesting stuff...

[/ QUOTE ]
Me too. Also, my postflop aggression is lower than the flop average, but higher on the river.

[climber]

I PMed you my winrate...

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Part Bump - Part Reply......

Nice work Ishmael!! With any luck this post will contribute to a cutback of the many useless "how do my stats look?" and "what should my stats be?" type posts. The best part of your analysis is the presentation of the data giving both an average stat, the min/max stats, and a SD based range. This is a nice proof positive that not everyone needs to have a VP$IP of exactly 17.635%. Yes it's true - player A can win playing 27% of his hands while player B can be sitting across the table and winning as well playing only 13% of his hands.


If we're getting a new sticky post - This thread should be linked!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks in general (and praise from you seems tougher to come by than from most /images/graemlins/wink.gif)...

I was curious what others think of this:

[ QUOTE ]
If we're getting a new sticky post - This thread should be linked!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I was thinking about asking for that.

Do you think that it would be a good idea to have this stickied?

(I'm sure the title would be changed... but I was just so angry that he was SOOO close to losing...)

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think that it would be a good idea to have this stickied?

[/ QUOTE ]

If it stops even one n00b from making a useless "1000k hands stat-checkup" post making this thread sticky will have been +EV for the SS Forum!!

[shark6]

Good work. I really like the 1 SD range given on the values. Rebump.

[climber]

Sticky a final version of with pretty pictures for lazy noobs or it won't do anyhting to stop the stats posts.

[Pokey]

[ QUOTE ]
Big questions:

a) Anything that seems like a typeo?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, "typo" doesn't have an "e" in it. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Great stuff, and a wonderful reminder that everybody has their own style. While TA-A is a good approach, there's wiggle room for adjustments here and there, and it's nice to see that we don't need to scream at newbies "VPIP>20% IST VERBOTEN!"

Thanks for your time and effort.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, "typo" doesn't have an "e" in it. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The ironing is delicious!

[Madtown]

Ishmael:

I believe you PMed me about this and I didn't get back to you.

Largely because, well, I don't feel like I have enough hands at either 2/4 or 3/6 to feel remotely confident about my numbers, and I don't think I'm particularly good either.

However, if/when I get more hands, I'll think about sending in some numbers to this project.

[Jim C]

Great work and great post. I'd also like to see win rate and win rate correlations. I'm only 1.5BB/100 on $3/$6 over 22,000 hands, but I will send you my stats if you want them (I can't imagine you do).

Optimal is misspelled.

Jim

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Great work and great post. I'd also like to see win rate and win rate correlations. I'm only 1.5BB/100 on $3/$6 over 22,000 hands, but I will send you my stats if you want them (I can't imagine you do).

Optimal is misspelled.

Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

Not as ironic a misspelling at typo!

Actually, those stats are fine. It is statistically likely you are not winning by chance.

The link to the other post (with instructions is)

here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2067226&page=&view=&s b=5&o=)

[TomG]

Interesting analysis. Some histogram plots might further help describe the spread of the data. I'd also be interested in seeing a scatter plot of VPIP vs. W$WSF. If you re-run the analysis, I'd be happy to send you my most recent PT stats.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting analysis. Some histogram plots might further help describe the spread of the data. I'd also be interested in seeing a scatter plot of VPIP vs. W$WSF. If you re-run the analysis, I'd be happy to send you my most recent PT stats.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good idea.

Give me a day or two and I will post them.

(also, Im always interesting in more stats)

[meep_42]

Thanks for all the work you're doing. If you need anything else, i'll be happy to provide what I can, again.

-d

[Aces_up07]

This is an awesome post Ishmael. It's saved me from posting my stats.


I think this is helpful because it makes you take a look at an area you may not think that you had a problem in. By saying, "my stats are completely different then what I see here" to yourself, it allows you to take a look at some of your play and see if your stats are different for a good reason, or a bad one. Keep up your good work on this.

Thanks a lot.

[goodguy_1]

This is a great project but there are few issues I have... your sample is tiny -~500K hands.I think players that you got numbers from are probably not allstar players in the limits you are studying so I'm not sure these numbers are something an aspiring player may want to copy..newbies yes this type of information is very helpful just to get a feel for some helpful parameters.I would really like to see the win-rates of the players involved.Obviously the really great players dont hang around they move up..but looking at some of these stats gives me the feeling many of these players are not 2.00 bb/+ players let alone 1.00bb I could go into why I think that but dont have time right now-some of thess stats look kind of funky.What would be great would be if you could get 10-20 50K/100K/200K hand databases from very good players-hard to get it all together thu I know.I have one for $3-6 on one database but alot of my other data which would qualify for your study is mixed in over a dozen old databases
Great work btw this post has been added to my favorites.I'd like to help if I can I'm surprised at all the great threads in this forum...since I've run pretty crappy in $3-6 my last 15K hands....I'm nosing around.

[CallMeIshmael]

Thanks for the reply.

Couple things...

[ QUOTE ]
your sample is tiny -~500K hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel this can be a common misconception.

Many stats (ie. VPIP, PFR, VPIP from SB, Steal blinds, defend blinds (and many more)) take a binomial distribution. And 500k is far more than enough of a sample size to be quite certain in its accuracy.

For example, if your preflop raise is 10%, after 500k hands, you can be 95% sure that your true rate falls in this range:

9.999-10.00008

Thats pretty accurate!

[ QUOTE ]

I think players that you got numbers from are probably not allstar players in the limits you are studying so I'm not sure these numbers are something an aspiring player may want to copy..newbies yes this type of information is very helpful just to get a feel for some helpful parameters. I would really like to see the win-rates of the players involved.Obviously the really great players dont hang around they move up..but looking at some of these stats gives me the feeling many of these players are not 2.00 bb/+ players let alone 1.00bb

[/ QUOTE ]

I went very far out of my way to be able to keep winrates and two plus two identities anonymous in the study.

Many choose to break this, some didnt. So, I have winrates for some.

But... I made sure to state that for your stats to be relevant, you had to be beating the game my more than 1 standard deviation. Thus, these were generally solid players.

[goodguy_1]

[ QUOTE ]
And 500k is far more than enough of a sample size to be quite certain in its accuracy.


[/ QUOTE ] I didnt know that you had screened for "decent players"...did this evolve over the course of time or did you from the start only accept data from decent players?If you intially had taken the larger samples from less than stellar players your stats could be polluted and obviously biased to the stats of these less than great players.Having 400K in stats from 1.00bb/100 players and 100K from 2.00bb+/100 players could hurt your results obviously...not that you intended to create the perfect statistical model here of a very good from the start but it could move towards that if you wanted to keep working on it.

What was the bb/100 you used to screen players?

Sorry if I'm being a dolt I think this is awesome what you are doing here!

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
I didnt know that you had screened for "decent players"...did this evolve over the course of time or did you from the start only accept data from decent players?If you intially had taken the larger samples from less than stellar players your stats could be polluted and obviously biased to the stats of these less than great players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I put a message on the board, and basically said: "If you are winning by this much (insert description) and would like to participate... then go here (insert website). If you are not sure, then PM me to talk"

I also sent out PMs to about 100 regular small stakes posters, who seemed to post good advice/hands, and personnally asked if they would like to contribute.

(NOTE: Im sure I missed a TON of people, and skipped some others because I didnt know if they played the right limits. If you didnt get a PM, it doesnt mean anything!!)

[goodguy_1]

my bad sorry just found the original post

[Perseus]

I am bumping this because I think it contains a lot of great info and there seem to have been a lot of stat posts lately...

[CallMeIshmael]

I am bumping this because the US Open is less than a month away and I still hate Tiger Woods /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Perseus]

Fair enough...

...amy chance you are going to create a bigger database any time soon. I would like to see the 3/6 stats if you have 30-40 databases to work from

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Fair enough...

...amy chance you are going to create a bigger database any time soon. I would like to see the 3/6 stats if you have 30-40 databases to work from

[/ QUOTE ]

I would be more than willing to do so.

But... I dont have the info from more players /images/graemlins/mad.gif


I was thinking that if the dataminers out there have many many hands on certain players, I could use those as well. Just a thought.

[meep_42]

I'll be happy to resubmit my 2/4 stats (as they are more comprehensive now), and my 3/6 stats next month.

I'm also pretty abnormal by the board's standards.
Both at poker and otherwise. :\

-d

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll be happy to resubmit my 2/4 stats (as they are more comprehensive now), and my 3/6 stats next month.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice! Maybe I will repost and ask for resubmissions.

Anyone else got some updates??

[ QUOTE ]
I'm also pretty abnormal by the board's standards.
Both at poker and otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I told you, that you'd regret the whole castration thing. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[krishan]

This is really incredibly work. Well done.

Krishan

[DMBFan23]

I'll contribute some 3/6 hands to the mix

[madscout]

Great job with the stats! Thank you so much.

Regarding aggression factor, Shillx brings up a very good point here: link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2456699&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=14&vc=1)

Is it possible to compile these stats for each betting round? It would be an interesting study.

Thanks!
~mad

[RacersEdge]

OK, I've been meaning to ask this every time I see this post, but what is the Tiger Woods reference??? He leads the PGA in a lot of stats??

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I've been meaning to ask this every time I see this post, but what is the Tiger Woods reference??? He leads the PGA in a lot of stats??

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL... no.

I posted this the day after he won the masters (with help from that luckass chip in)

I really dont like Tiger Woods. So, I was in a mood at that point.

[legoman]

Is there a format that you want us to send you our data?
I assume you don't want us to send you our entire PT database...

[meep_42]

Original post is here. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=2067226 &Forum=,,All_Forums,,&Words=-Re%3A&Searchpage=2&Limit=25&Main=2067226&Search=tr ue&where=bodysub&Name=24328&daterange=1&newerval=3 &newertype=m&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post20 67226)

-d

[CallMeIshmael]

http://www.4to1.com/images/344px/Golf/golf.campbell_mwin.jpg

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!! !!

[Sactodian]

Hi,

Interesting thread. I'm playing FL shorthanded, 3/6 and 5/10. Do you have any stats on winning players for shorthanded?

Thanks

Sacto

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi,

Interesting thread. I'm playing FL shorthanded, 3/6 and 5/10. Do you have any stats on winning players for shorthanded?

Thanks

Sacto

[/ QUOTE ]
This question and others like it you should ask in the HUSH forum (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=headsup).

[Evan]

I think its really funny that this got bumped right after Tiger won the British. Suck it, Jordan.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
I think its really funny that this got bumped right after Tiger won the British. Suck it, Jordan.

[/ QUOTE ]


I am pretty sure that was the intention.

When he gets owned at the PGA, I will bump this. Fear not!!!!

[dtbog]

ty for this post! good work. I was going to make one of the n00b "stats check" posts that someone warned against, but I found this in the search first. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Obviously, CMI, I'm going to assume that the knowledge you used in performing this statistical analysis was gained from a statistics course at your fine university. =)

[CallMeIshmael]

This was too close...

http://www.frangioni.com/files/phil.jpg

[meep_42]

Only because everyone else was a choke artist. (Or paid off by the PGA to get ratings up /tinfoilhat)

-d

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Only because everyone else was a choke artist. (Or paid off by the PGA to get ratings up /tinfoilhat)

-d

[/ QUOTE ]

I liked your old avatar. It was cute.

[meep_42]

Alizee liked it too.

It'll be back.
<--- that's just my favorite B&M shirt. Never underestimate what your clothing does for your table image.

-d

[SackUp]

are you still collecting stats?

i'd be more than happy to give any stats you want. This is good stuff!

[mozz]

yeah what happened to all the graphs with winrate as a variable? those would be awsome..

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah what happened to all the graphs with winrate as a variable? those would be awsome..

[/ QUOTE ]

I did some math on it, and graphs would be pretty much just something neat to look at.

Given the variance of winrate, sample sizes are too small to draw any real conclusions.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
are you still collecting stats?

i'd be more than happy to give any stats you want. This is good stuff!

[/ QUOTE ]

TY.

Hmm... anyone else got some stuff to submit?

If enough people reply to this, I'll redo it.

[meep_42]

I've got more 2/4 stats (25k I think) and probably 20k 3/6 I can re-submit.

-d

[meep_42]

Oh, and excellent avatar - /images/graemlins/heart.gif The Clash.

-d

[peterchi]

I got some for you this time.

[walshamatic]

good post.

[DocMartin]

I have a set of 3/6 stats to add to the cause.

[Sniper]

Ismael,

Great project. As a suggestion, if you included weighted average (by win rate) across all data points, I think the data would be even more useful.

[TheHammer24]

My Won $ When saw Flop is 40.5%, noticably higher. However, my VPIP is 16.9 and my WTSD is 31.5. Could this statistic be an indicator of positive variance? This is 7500 hands and a winrate of 3.44 BB/100. I have felt like I have been running well over this period; however, I also feel like i'm playing my best.

EDIT: Added more detail.

[jason_t]

Hey all,

Remember when this guy use to be cool and post poker content?

What a loser.

[Dagger78]

How big of a sample size? If it's a small sample size <20k and it could just be you're running well.

If I dig out 5k chunks of my PT database, I could show you a great player, a HUGE loser and some really wacky numbers.

[meep_42]

[ QUOTE ]
Remember when this guy use to be cool and post poker content?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

But, I do remember him posting about poker.

-d

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Remember when this guy use to be cool and post poker content?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

But, I do remember him posting about poker.

-d

[/ QUOTE ]

Alley-oop!

[istewart]

CMI delete your 2+2 account.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
CMI delete your 2+2 account.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have never made an on topic post in this forum. How can you possibly fault me?

GTFO.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
CMI delete your 2+2 account.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have never made an on topic post in this forum. How can you possibly fault me?

GTFO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Things have changed around here, they have certainly changed. istewart has made some nice posts here and in HUSH. You however leave everything to be desired. We don't even want you in Las Vegas anymore. GTFO.

[private joker]

Bump for Webster.

[Elevens]

The "Fold to river bet optimal value at 2/4-5/10" post inspired me to bump this.

[MrEngenic]

My post includes a link to this post and please read the post again.

[Elevens]

[ QUOTE ]
My post includes a link to this post and please read the post again.

[/ QUOTE ]

You misunderstood me. I know what your post contained. If this bump had been a reply to your post, it would have been done via the "reply" button within your post.

[MrEngenic]

OK /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Hobbs.]

why was the title of this post changed? I liked 'I hate you tiger woods' so much better /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
why was the title of this post changed? I liked 'I hate you tiger woods' so much better /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Because we stickied it and if the title is more indicative of the contents than we'll get more people looking at it first before making dumb stats posts. Then we were told that we can't sticky it.

[Elevens]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why was the title of this post changed? I liked 'I hate you tiger woods' so much better /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Because we stickied it and if the title is more indicative of the contents than we'll get more people looking at it first before making dumb stats posts. Then we were told that we can't sticky it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you sticky a seperate post with a link to it (like the digest)?

[Webster]

The big problem I have with these stats are that they are from average winners. 1.5BB/100 is nice but it's like seeing a .280 baseball player and saying I want to be just like him!

Don't get me wrong - it's interesting and I appreciate all the work but 1.5BB/100 is a tad low to be looking at stats.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why was the title of this post changed? I liked 'I hate you tiger woods' so much better /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Because we stickied it and if the title is more indicative of the contents than we'll get more people looking at it first before making dumb stats posts. Then we were told that we can't sticky it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you sticky a seperate post with a link to it (like the digest)?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Apparently the problem is that we're not allowed to have more than two stickies. We're working on writing a new sticky to replace the current posting guidelines etc.

[DocMartin]

"compiled" would likely work better in the title

[Jake (The Snake)]

This is exactly what I was about to request, awesome.

Something like the micro guidelines would be terrific.

[Elevens]

[ QUOTE ]
This is exactly what I was about to request, awesome.

Something like the micro guidelines would be terrific.

[/ QUOTE ]

I always wondered why we never had this.

[Jeff_B]

I am a $1 / $2 $2 / $4 player on pacific and have been somewhat profitable over 2000 hands. Been using the tracker under a month since I decided to really try and will give you my info if you want it... I can be reached udner aim on the same screen name projectuber or through the boards here. Just be sure to let me know what exaclty you want

[stevecook]

where would i find these stats in my pt?


Loss from BB:

Mean: 0.18
Standard Deviation: 0.05
Min: 0.08
Max: 0.28
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 0.15-0.20


Loss from SB:

Mean: 0.11
Standard Deviation: 0.05
Min: 0.02
Max: 0.21
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 0.09-0.14

[stevecook]

where would i find these stats in my pt?

Loss from BB:

Mean: 0.18
Standard Deviation: 0.05
Min: 0.08
Max: 0.28
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 0.15-0.20


Loss from SB:

Mean: 0.11
Standard Deviation: 0.05
Min: 0.02
Max: 0.21
A one-half standard deviation range about the mean: 0.09-0.14

[soon2bepro]

These stats are only for full ring (10 handed) play? Not all hands you play are with 10 players on it. I play short handed and some HU mostly, but even someone who always plays full ring, many of their hands will be 8 handed or even 7 handed. And then a winning players' stats will be different. For example in HU you should have like a 45 - 70% VP$IP and 40 - 60% PFR, depending on your opponent

[mack848]

and your point is?

This is a terrific post and excellent work. The stats are for full 10 handed tables. If you want HU stats, it's not the post for you.

[TexasJWP]

[ QUOTE ]
a) Anything that seems like a typeo?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, yeah -- the word "typeo". It's typo. See typo @ dictionary.reference.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=typo)

[Elevens]

[ QUOTE ]
These stats are only for full ring (10 handed) play? Not all hands you play are with 10 players on it. I play short handed and some HU mostly, but even someone who always plays full ring, many of their hands will be 8 handed or even 7 handed. And then a winning players' stats will be different. For example in HU you should have like a 45 - 70% VP$IP and 40 - 60% PFR, depending on your opponent

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why this wasn't posted in the Shorthanded forum.

[siegfriedandroy]

where is the attachment?? i cannot find it...

[Mike Haven]

It's CMI's second post in this thread. It starts with:

"Introduction:

The intent of this post is NOT to have players change their game in an effort to make their stats look more like those presented ..."

[BitterChris]

It would be interesting to see the stats for winning (>= 1 BB/100, which is about .5 BB/hr), "breakeven" (-1 BB/100 < win rate < 1 BB/100), and losing (< -1 BB/100) players, to see if there is a difference in any of the stats.

This would shed some light on the importance of strategy/style vs. reads.

[ooinsight]

I just like that you used S plus to run your data analysis. That takes heart.

[menchbrew]

How do these results correlate with BB/100? I am running about at 24% VPIP with 1.2 BB/100 for 20,000 hands (about 5% over these results for each position). I clearly need to be more selective on the hands I am playing, but I am having trouble determining which hands not to play.

Do you have any suggestions?

[Mike Jett]

[ QUOTE ]
How do these results correlate with BB/100? I am running about at 24% VPIP with 1.2 BB/100 for 20,000 hands (about 5% over these results for each position). I clearly need to be more selective on the hands I am playing, but I am having trouble determining which hands not to play.

Do you have any suggestions?

[/ QUOTE ]

Play by a starting hand chart? Fold more?

Actually the best answer to your question, which is basically "how should i play poker", is to use the search function for more than just bringing up old stat posts.

[Abbaddabba]

Im really surprised with a few of the figures - in particular, attempts to steal blinds and how low it is for everyone.

Mine is WAY off the charts at 45%.

(im at about 2.9BB/100 after 85k hands of full ring)

[sparky3474]

I searched but can't find anything like this for short handed, does anyone know if it exists on the forum

[CallMeIshmael]

I replied to sparky via PM, but he might need a hand from someone on here, so Ill post.

Does anyone know if/where Krishan's post similar to this, but for shorthanded play, is?

[Marmor]

Updates?