WSOP 1.5k NL- Interestingish PF spot twice, Post flop once

[Inyaface]

Blinds are 50/100 and I have 1550 in MP

Part: I'm dealt A10hh and I open limp. Raise better? Open fold?

Part 2:nittyish old man makes it 300 OTB and 1 of the blinds call. I call? Shove better? Fold?

Flop is QhJh2x
Blind checks, I check, Button bets 800 and I shove. Open push flop better?

[DVO]

fold pf > Raise > limp
Nit's small pf raise should raise red flags; fold
flop is fine

interested in other's opinions on this, they seem like close decisions to me. Much pf ( first time around)depends on how active the table is behind you.

[Eagles]

I've talked to you about this a bit.
PF I raise and maybe call a shove depending on reads. I know it sucks to raise/fold but there is a ton of value in just picking up the blinds.

Part 2: It depends a lot on more specific reads I probably wouldn't fold because your getting like 4:1 pf with better reads I could definetely see shoving because there's a ton of overlay and you have a strong hand. On the flop I just bet call because it will suck so much if he bets and is stuffed to call a shove with like 66 or TJ or something.

[luckychewy]

i would either raise like 2.4x or fold pf, very often folding. stacks behind matter too. once u limp i probably call the raise too, and definitely open shove that flop.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
Blinds are 50/100 and I have 1550 in MP

Part: I'm dealt A10hh and I open limp. Raise better? Open fold?

Part 2:nittyish old man makes it 300 OTB and 1 of the blinds call. I call? Shove better? Fold?

Flop is QhJh2x
Blind checks, I check, Button bets 800 and I shove. Open push flop better?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have definitely raised preflop. It's close to +EV simply open pushing, assuming you are 3 off the button when you say you are in MP. Anyway I wouldn't open push, but whenever it's close like that, and you are shortstacked in the 12-20 zone, you should probably at least be raising something if your other choice is to limp. Since folding is almost surely terrible, then I think you should raise.

On the flop you should of course open allin, no other play has any merit IMO. Check raising seems terrible you have no FE at all against basically anything. You open push he can fold something like TT or who knows maybe he even folds AK all of which are fantastic results for you due to the immense value of the money in the pot.

[ryanghall]

I'm with Curtains in that you have to open shove the flop. Raising preflop is also good IMO.

Ryan

[aejones]

[ QUOTE ]
i would either raise like 2.4x or fold pf, very often folding. stacks behind matter too. once u limp i probably call the raise too, and definitely open shove that flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

you would fold preflop everytime and twice on sunday

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i would either raise like 2.4x or fold pf, very often folding. stacks behind matter too. once u limp i probably call the raise too, and definitely open shove that flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

you would fold preflop everytime and twice on sunday

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, I think folding is very clearly wrong. btw is it official that hero is exactly 3 off the button?

[FatalError]

[ QUOTE ]
Blinds are 50/100 and I have 1550 in MP

Part: I'm dealt A10hh and I open limp. Raise better? Open fold?

Part 2:nittyish old man makes it 300 OTB and 1 of the blinds call. I call? Shove better? Fold?

Flop is QhJh2x
Blind checks, I check, Button bets 800 and I shove. Open push flop better?

[/ QUOTE ]

i was sitting on your left torturing your life /images/graemlins/smile.gif i had 88 that hand when i moved in on you

sorry you had to lose this pot to that dude but you played it fine, you don't mind inviting a spot like that with your M so low

[LSgambler]

Open limping is bad with your stack size. You should raise to about 2.5x-3x or folded. As played push any flop.

[Inyaface]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Blinds are 50/100 and I have 1550 in MP

Part: I'm dealt A10hh and I open limp. Raise better? Open fold?

Part 2:nittyish old man makes it 300 OTB and 1 of the blinds call. I call? Shove better? Fold?

Flop is QhJh2x
Blind checks, I check, Button bets 800 and I shove. Open push flop better?

[/ QUOTE ]

i was sitting on your left torturing your life /images/graemlins/smile.gif i had 88 that hand when i moved in on you

sorry you had to lose this pot to that dude but you played it fine, you don't mind inviting a spot like that with your M so low

[/ QUOTE ]

UGHHH
Nice hand (wasn't a set right)
I almost called with KJ and I was probably going to if backdoor diamonds didn't get there.
Board was AdxxssJdXd

Still in the tourney?

Also I wasn't 3 of the button. It was 4 (maybe 5)

[Pudge714]

Why am I backing you?
I really like preflop. Online you can raise/call a lot here, but live people aren't going to three bet light. Openshove the flop since you have FE. If it makes you feel any better I know the results so it didn't matter.

[Ansky]

[ QUOTE ]
Blinds are 50/100 and I have 1550 in MP

Part: I'm dealt A10hh and I open limp. Raise better? Open fold?

Part 2:nittyish old man makes it 300 OTB and 1 of the blinds call. I call? Shove better? Fold?

Flop is QhJh2x
Blind checks, I check, Button bets 800 and I shove. Open push flop better?

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly every single decision you made was poor imo.

The open limp is just ridiculous w/ 15bbs. For all reasons already stated I prefer raise/calling a shove, or even open shoving better than open limping. [censored] folding is better than a limp by a lot.

On the flop YOU HAVE TO SHOVE to get him to fold AK/ pocket pairs. Why are you check/shoving you obviously have no folding equity.

[JSchnett]

I raise pf here. as played fold to his raise because he has a huge hand every time and you are OOP with 15bbs.

[0evg0]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Blinds are 50/100 and I have 1550 in MP

Part: I'm dealt A10hh and I open limp. Raise better? Open fold?

Part 2:nittyish old man makes it 300 OTB and 1 of the blinds call. I call? Shove better? Fold?

Flop is QhJh2x
Blind checks, I check, Button bets 800 and I shove. Open push flop better?

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly every single decision you made was poor imo.

The open limp is just ridiculous w/ 15bbs. For all reasons already stated I prefer raise/calling a shove, or even open shoving better than open limping. [censored] folding is better than a limp by a lot.

On the flop YOU HAVE TO SHOVE to get him to fold AK/ pocket pairs. Why are you check/shoving you obviously have no folding equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

qft

initial limp: F-
pf call: C-
flop shove: A

[Inyaface]

Meh,
I think people are overestimating how bad the limp is pf. It might in fact be the best play. Live generally plays more passive and I'm often going to be able to see a flop and get it in if I hit or make a small bet to win the pot if I'm checked to. The one mistake might not be shoving after the blinds call with all the dead money in the pot.

Raising is ok since I know what to do vs all players if they shove based on my limited reads over the last hour and a bit. The problem is even if I 2.5X it I'm giving myself such a good price on a call.

Open folding seems to nitty but might be ok

As for the flop, the reason I checked was so the blind would hopefully come along if the button bet and I could get it in with even more overlay.

Also FE is all good here but lets remember it's a quick structured WSOP event and I need to get some chippies. Also there's a non zero percent chance the button bet folds (I've seen much worse) especially if he bets less then 800. Folding out small pairs isn't even that huge since I'm like 60% vs an under pair

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]


Honestly every single decision you made was poor imo.

The open limp is just ridiculous w/ 15bbs. For all reasons already stated I prefer raise/calling a shove, or even open shoving better than open limping. [censored] folding is better than a limp by a lot.

On the flop YOU HAVE TO SHOVE to get him to fold AK/ pocket pairs. Why are you check/shoving you obviously have no folding equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with Ansky although I do like a limp-shove preflop if you were in early position. I probably just fold this though.

Not openshoving the flop is absolutely criminal. If you are pot committed to your big draw why the hell would you not want folding equity when you get your money in?

[0evg0]

I understand and have considered that this is live, where I actually have a good amount of experience.

The reason your limp is good is what makes a raise great.

[nath]

[ QUOTE ]
Meh,
I think people are overestimating how bad the limp is pf. It might in fact be the best play.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's not, for a number of reasons, the biggest of which is that you're putting in 1/15 of your stack to see a flop with no other possible benefits to your action (you can't win the pot or force out hands behind you by open limping), and a lot of drawbacks (you can be forced to throw your hand away etc.)
[ QUOTE ]
Live generally plays more passive

[/ QUOTE ]
That's not a reason to play passively along with them

[ QUOTE ]
and I'm often going to be able to see a flop and get it in if I hit or make a small bet to win the pot if I'm checked to.

[/ QUOTE ]
You won't be able to see a flop often enough, and you won't hit often enough when you do

[Inyaface]

All comments are appreciated,

Ansky, 0evg0, Nath etc, true about taking advantage of the passivity.

FYI I think all the options in the hand are close and a lot of very good players have different opinions on the hand. I can accomplish a lot of different things by limping, raising, shoving and folding. I also think flop is interesting because of the reasons I gave above.

That being said I think raise to 250 is best and re-evaluate if shoved on.

[0evg0]

[ QUOTE ]
That being said I think raise to 250 is best and re-evaluate if shoved on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. And usually fold afterward.

Next best is like raising to 500 or something and just getting it in preflop or just shoving any flop.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
All comments are appreciated,

Ansky, 0evg0, Nath etc, true about taking advantage of the passivity.

FYI I think all the options in the hand are close and a lot of very good players have different opinions on the hand. I can accomplish a lot of different things by limping, raising, shoving and folding. I also think flop is interesting because of the reasons I gave above.

That being said I think raise to 250 is best and re-evaluate if shoved on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Flop action is not remotely close. Cmon there is absolutely no argument that can be made for checking calling instead of pushing. Your argument that you are hoping to somehow sucker a 3rd person into the pot is so far behind the importance of having some possibility to win the pot outright. It's ridiculously minor and is very unlikely to happen anyway.

[Eagles]

[ QUOTE ]

Flop action is not remotely close. Cmon there is absolutely no argument that can be made for checking calling instead of pushing. Your argument that you are hoping to somehow sucker a 3rd person into the pot is so far behind the importance of having some possibility to win the pot outright. It's ridiculously minor and is very unlikely to happen anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]
Curtains,
I disagree it certainly is not minor. If you can induce a call from the blinds you will increase the pot size a lot without decreasing your equity.

edit: I'm not saying c/c is the best play but inducing an overcall from the BB is something that certainly should be considered.

[Deuce2High]

I think you played the hand perfect.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Flop action is not remotely close. Cmon there is absolutely no argument that can be made for checking calling instead of pushing. Your argument that you are hoping to somehow sucker a 3rd person into the pot is so far behind the importance of having some possibility to win the pot outright. It's ridiculously minor and is very unlikely to happen anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]
Curtains,
I disagree it certainly is not minor. If you can induce a call from the blinds you will increase the pot size a lot without decreasing your equity.

edit: I'm not saying c/c is the best play but inducing an overcall from the BB is something that certainly should be considered.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, honestly I think it's just terrible and beyond reproach to check here, but I see there is a difference of opinion. The possibility of winning the pot is MUCH more important than the possibility of an extra player coming along (and on top of it I think it's more likely). Also note that in many cases where checking encourages the third player to come along, that betting will have the same result.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Flop action is not remotely close. Cmon there is absolutely no argument that can be made for checking calling instead of pushing. Your argument that you are hoping to somehow sucker a 3rd person into the pot is so far behind the importance of having some possibility to win the pot outright. It's ridiculously minor and is very unlikely to happen anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]
Curtains,
I disagree it certainly is not minor. If you can induce a call from the blinds you will increase the pot size a lot without decreasing your equity.

edit: I'm not saying c/c is the best play but inducing an overcall from the BB is something that certainly should be considered.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah of course it should be considered, everything should be considered. It's just putting the horse before the wagon, or whatever the saying is.

[WarDekar]

Dude... You ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO SHOVE THIS FLOP

I would've never limped PF to begin with, either.

Honestly I hate your line in the entire hand, and as (almost) always I agree with 0evg0 and Ansky on almost all points, and curtains

[Mench]

If i get to the flop like this, it has to be an openpush.

[NoahSD]

At most tables, raise/fold preflop is so much better than everything else. Obv at some tables raise/call is good, and maybe even open fold is good sometimes (but no way cause it's suited and it's got an ace and the other card's pretty big too).

Open limping is bad except at the very specific kind of table where people play back a lot but will fold to limp/shoves--i.e., the kind of table that doesn't really exist.