Is this ridiculously spewy? Hand from $540 Venetian

[WarDekar]

Okay I built up a pretty decent table lead early by being awesome, of course. I probably have like.... 35k-ish at this point and the only person at the table that is even close is an old Asian lady (I say old, she was probably like 40) who seems pretty bad and got her stack AJ>AK>AQ and tripling up.

This is from memory so I'll do my best, bet sizes are gonna be really rough estimates no doubt. This is let's see... just after break so it's 100/200/25.

Folded to me in CO, I raise to 700 with 57hh. Folds to lady in SB who calls, BB folds. Flop comes 2TA with 2 hearts. She checks, I bet out like... 1000? Again I'm probably fudging these numbers so bear with me. She calls. Turn comes another 2, no heart. She checks, I fire out ~1600, she min-raises. I call. River brings another 2, no heart, so I'm literally playing the board. She checks.

Okay I know I have the bet sizes wrong now because I bet 10k on the river and I know that was like 3/4 pot...

I have her covered and the 10k would leave her with enough to be playable since it's 100/200, but it's gonna put a huge dent in her stack.

My read on her was she was pretty dumb, and I was pretty 100% positive she did not have an Ace the way she played the hand and the way she played previous hands.

Spewy? Awesome? I can't decide....

[shaundeeb]

soo awful smaller PFR (we went over this yest)that way smaller c-bet I fold to the turn c/r even though its a minraise often when you improve it costs you even more.

[WarDekar]

With stacks this deep you really think I need to be raising smaller PF here? My standard open at this point was 6-800?

I suck /images/graemlins/frown.gif

EDIT: Or are you saying my c-bet was too big? I know we talked about betting smaller on c-bets and such because players don't pay attention to pot sizes and all, but we were soooo deep, especially her an I, that I was obviously really trying to push her off the hand.

I should note that the only hand I had shown down at this point were 2 sets which I'll get to in a minute.

[Bakes]

deeper stacks means you can do watever the F you want preflop. more, less, whatever, but i would be raising more with the good hands and less with hands like yours. word to deeb on the turn.

[shaundeeb]

with a hand like this it has more value the more chips you get in post flop so keep the pot small on flop so you can draw if you get raised etc on flop the shallower you are the worse raising 75s gets unless its a time you can shove over a c-bet type of thing. You want to either pickup the pot PF which happens with similar freq at 700 and 600 open but the EV of opening 600 is higher plus you can manuver for fewer chips earlier when you are less likely to have a made hand but a decent draw.

[WarDekar]

How so on the turn? My pot odds at this point are pretty ridic, I'm drawing to a flush, and plus have the opportunity to take it down even if I don't hit it?

The reason I fired on river is because I figure she's 100% betting an Ace from my read, I just don't think she's capable of checking an Ace, and considering I had only shown 2 monsters in 2+ hours of play I thought the way I played the hand was representative of an Ace.

The way I played my 2 sets were somewhat passive, and the fact that I flat called turn I thought made the river bet soooo much better. I'll post the 2 set hands in a minute I kinda wondered if I could've extracted more from 1 of them.

[WarDekar]

The more I think about this hand the more I want to say it may have actually taken place during 200/400 and I had opened for 1.1k or something... That makes a lot more sense considering how big the pot got because at the time I remember thinking I wasn't betting that huge and reading the thread it seems that way.


Plus I know this happened after my 66 hand at least a little bit...

Would that make a difference or is it still really bad? My open in 200/400 was 1-1.4k generally depending on a lot of things obviously.

Yeah 200/400 makes a lot more sense to me now because I know she had AJ>AK>AQ and they were AIPF and there's like... no way that could've happened in 100/200 with the stack sizes involved.

Sorry... My memory is awful from way too much drug and alcohol use and I've had a really long day.


I also think this happened after a QJvQK hand I had on QQT flop when I absolutely know was 200/400, so yeh I'm like 98% sure this hand happend in 200/400 and my raise PF was probably 1.2k, and bet-size on flop and turn was probably a little bigger than originally quoted.

Okay so needless to say I completely butchered trying to tell this hand and it completely changes it... Blah I'm going to bed, but I'd still like opinions.

[shaundeeb]

yah at 200/400 1100 is a perfect open live if it gets you some folds which it should.

[Shine]

betting river is very bad unless its more than pot, because you get called very frequently here as evidenced by getting minraised on turn

[AllinDan]

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old Asian lady

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who seems pretty bad

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She checks, I fire out ~1600, she min-raises. I call.

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My read on her was she was pretty dumb

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I think this player folds zero hands on the river.

[nath]

Check the turn, unless she's floating you with a gutshot she's not folding anything on that total brick

[luckychewy]

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Check the turn, unless she's floating you with a gutshot she's not folding anything on that total brick

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i disagree, i think you'll get folds out of 88, tx, bigger hearts sometimes often enough to make a bet profitable. not to mention the paired board makes our draw less valuable so bet/folding isn't such a huge concern. if the turn were an ace i think a lot of those hands still peel because i imagine this type of player is going to put us on air when they have a pair, and put us on a monster when they have a draw. so i think the turn bet is fine, but calling the raise is pretty bad. river bluff is suicide, people don't fold boats online, and i'd guess they don't fold them live either.

[WarDekar]

Also, I think it's completely necessary to bet the turn if I want to represent an Ace on the river.

[Dunkman]

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Also, I think it's completely necessary to bet the turn if I want to represent an Ace on the river.

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Do we really want to make a multi-street bluff against an old lady who's a bad player /images/graemlins/confused.gif Do we actually think she's even going to notice what we're doing?

Look, I don't play as high as you guys, and I'm not as good. But c/c flop and c/minraise turn from a bad player is pretty [censored] scary.

[WarDekar]

Meh... she was playing kind of aggressive when she actually thought her hand was good, and had sucked out multiple times previously (top 2 all-in on flop vs. bottom set, she filled on turn, the AJ>AK>AQ hand)

From what I saw she was really bad, but if she liked her hand she was getting her chips in.

[WarDekar]

Okay discussion has ended, so....

She tanked forever and eventually folded a Ten for 2s full.

I don't want to be results oriented so I posted this as I really wasn't sure if my line was incredibly spewy or not (hence the title)

I realize it's also quite difficult for you to see my thought process behind why I did what I did when you ahdn't been at the table and seen previous actions, but I wanted opinions.