House Committee to Hold Internet Gambling Hearing 6/8

[Jestocost]

This just in…

The U.S. House Committee on Financial Services will hold a hearing entitled "Can Internet Gambling Be Effectively Regulated to Protect Consumers and the Payments System?" at 10 a.m. on Friday, June 8, 2007, in room 2128 Rayburn House Office Building. Witnesses will be by invitation only.

No more details at this time. Stay tuned.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
This just in…

The U.S. House Committee on Financial Services will hold a hearing entitled "Can Internet Gambling Be Effectively Regulated to Protect Consumers and the Payments System?" at 10 a.m. on Friday, June 8, 2007, in room 2128 Rayburn House Office Building. Witnesses will be by invitation only.

No more details at this time. Stay tuned.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the heads-up.

Everyone, PLEASE email, snail mail (email it as well so it's there in time) fax or call your congressman over the next few days. Our opponents definitely will.

[Jestocost]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the heads-up.

Everyone, PLEASE email, snail mail (email it as well so it's there in time) fax or call your congressman over the next few days. Our opponents definitely will.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many of them will be at home over this weekend, so stalking them while they're out kissing babies probably will work too. Shake their hand and give them a well-reasoned argument.

[MiltonFriedman]

No witness list publicly available until Monday.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
No witness list publicly available until Monday.

[/ QUOTE ]


Who wants to give an O/U on the percentage of the list comprised of "I clicked my mouse and lost my house" sob stories?

[oldbookguy]

lets hope you are corect and EVERYONE Writes someone or calls someone on the list on FSC Committee members.

The ansewr is YES, it is already being done with the 'LEGAL' wagering on MSN, YAHOO, AOL and others, no reason Poker cannot as well, the rules and procedures are already in place.

MAKE THIS POINT!!!!!

Also, I do not see the hearing listed yet, but if it is to be on the 8th, it can be watched live via web cam @

http://financialservices.house.gov/hearings_all.shtml

Click web cam.

obg

[Jack Bando]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No witness list publicly available until Monday.

[/ QUOTE ]


Who wants to give an O/U on the percentage of the list comprised of "I clicked my mouse and lost my house" sob stories?

[/ QUOTE ]

Since this is Frank's group, isn't he the one doing the inviting? If so,I'm taking the under.

[Karak567]

This is a no-lose-situation for us, right?

[Jack Bando]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a no-lose-situation for us, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on how much say Frank has in this. I don't know how these hearing work, but if he has a lot of sway on this hearing, this is very good.

[Jestocost]

Here's the witness list so far for this week's hearing:

<ul type="square">Howard Lederer, Professional Poker Player and Poker Industry Software Consultant
Radley Balko, Senior Editor, Reason Magazine
Jon Prideaux, Chief Executive, Asterion Payments
Gerald Kitchen, Chief Executive Officer, SecureTrading Ltd
Pastor Greg Hogan[/list]

Lederer's obviously friendly. Reason is a Libertarian site, which should be friendly on the personal freedom side. The other two guys are payments systems types who I hope will say that the systems can be made secure. Prideaux is a former Visa UK exec, but Asterion must be a start up. I'm guessing the Pastor isn't on our side

You can keep up with developments here:
Can Internet Gambling Be Effectively Regulated to Protect Consumers and the Payments System? (http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/financialsvcs_dem/ht060807.shtml)

[Wongboy]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's the witness list so far for this week's hearing:

<ul type="square">Howard Lederer, Professional Poker Player and Poker Industry Software Consultant
Radley Balko, Senior Editor, Reason Magazine
Jon Prideaux, Chief Executive, Asterion Payments
Gerald Kitchen, Chief Executive Officer, SecureTrading Ltd
Pastor Greg Hogan
[/list]

So that's a total of one name I know that's friendly. I'm guessing the Pastor isn't on our side. The other two I'll have to research.

You can keep up with developments here:

Can Internet Gambling Be Effectively Regulated to Protect Consumers and the Payments System? (http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/financialsvcs_dem/ht060807.shtml)

[/ QUOTE ]

Count one more supporter in that group (per Google):

Reason Magazine
Political journal advocating the gamut of libertarian causes.

[Jestocost]

Oh great, Pastor Greg Hogan is the father of the idiot kid at Lehigh who robbed a bank to pay his gambling debts. I'm sure he can blame that on Internet gambling vs. crappy parenting.

[Wongboy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here's the witness list so far for this week's hearing:

<ul type="square">Howard Lederer, Professional Poker Player and Poker Industry Software Consultant
Radley Balko, Senior Editor, Reason Magazine
Jon Prideaux, Chief Executive, Asterion Payments
Gerald Kitchen, Chief Executive Officer, SecureTrading Ltd
Pastor Greg Hogan
[/list]

So that's a total of one name I know that's friendly. I'm guessing the Pastor isn't on our side. The other two I'll have to research.

You can keep up with developments here:

Can Internet Gambling Be Effectively Regulated to Protect Consumers and the Payments System? (http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/financialsvcs_dem/ht060807.shtml)

[/ QUOTE ]

Count one more supporter in that group (per Google):

Reason Magazine
Political journal advocating the gamut of libertarian causes.

[/ QUOTE ]

and some bad news:

DeSales in the News


The Morning Call, Thursday, August 17, 2006
How online gambling toppled Greg Hogan's world

Story by Matt Assad focuses on Lehigh University sophomore Greg Hogan Jr. who robbed a local bank to feed a gambling addiction. According to Assad, in a little more than a year, the Lehigh class president and accomplishment musician lost $8,000. Hogan's father, a Baptist minister in Barberton, Ohio, wants his son's story to be a cautionary tale for the 1.7 million college students who now gamble online. He will be among the guest panelists discussing online gambling during the Center Valley Forum hosted by the Salesian Center for Faith and Culture at DeSales on Aug. 30.

[TheEngineer]

Howard Lederer, Professional Poker Player and Poker Industry Software Consultant
with us, obviously

Radley Balko, Senior Editor, Reason Magazine
big-time libertarian....regular on Foxnews.com, where he wrote a nice article on our behalf after UIGEA passed, and reason.com..with us

Jon Prideaux, Chief Executive, Asterion Payments
used to work for Visa (I think)...not sure what side he's on

Gerald Kitchen, Chief Executive Officer, SecureTrading Ltd company handles electronic payments

Pastor Greg Hogan
bad news....his son had problems with a claimed online poker addiction..... http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/magazi...3d0&amp;ei=5070 (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/magazine/11poker.html?ex=1181102400&amp;en=fc8a44c864ae13d0&amp;ei= 5070) ... frequently cited by groups like the Family Research Council

[oldbookguy]

Well, I would saty all in all the hearing is a pretty well stack deck, 4 on our side, 1 against.

Give me that deck any day.

obg

[bossplayer]

[ QUOTE ]

Well, I would saty all in all the hearing is a pretty well stack deck, 4 on our side, 1 against.

Give me that deck any day.


obg

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry cant resist....

So would it be luck with this deck too?
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Wongboy]

[ QUOTE ]

Well, I would saty all in all the hearing is a pretty well stack deck, 4 on our side, 1 against.

Give me that deck any day.

obg

[/ QUOTE ]


I'd say 3 on our side for sure (secure trading will definately benefit from increased EFT's and less regulation), Visa is also a probable on our side.

I think the key is to ensure that we focus on the fact that sites can ensure no underage gamblers / fraud, etc. Basically, make the case that controls can be put in place to ensure that degenerates with no personal responsibility like the the Pastors son can be stopped from violating the law.

This is a challenge since online sites do not currently do a very good job of blocking underage gamblers, but this is still where we should focus our efforts IMHO.

[frommagio]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh great, Pastor Greg Hogan is the father of the idiot kid at Lehigh who robbed a bank to pay his gambling debts. I'm sure he can blame that on Internet gambling vs. crappy parenting.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know, while I would agree that poor parenting is by far a more relevant factor, it is good to remember that the other side does have some legitimate points. Families do get hurt by these guys who can't control their gambling.

Anybody remember 2+2's own Cero, the self-described "pro player" and respected poster on the strategy forums? He donked away the family savings when his hot streak ended: http://www.slate.com/id/2144866/. Cero's wife and kids were innocent victims; they did nothing wrong.

Our hobby/passion/profession does have an unfortunate underside. It's wise to respect our opponents, as there's a bit of truth on all sides.

[Uglyowl]

[ QUOTE ]
Our hobby/passion/profession does have an unfortunate underside. It's wise to respect our opponents, as there's a bit of truth on all sides.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be nice if they could show why keeping poker "above ground" would be better for all involved including problem gamblers.

[daedalus]

Pastor Greg??....I think he's the guy that plays $5000/$1000 NL on Full Tilt (screenname: Reverend Jim)

http://mlmblog.typepad.com/blog/images/reverend_jim_ignatowski-thumb.jpg

[Truthiness24]

I subscribe to Reason. You should too.

[THAY3R]

[ QUOTE ]

Our hobby/passion/profession does have an unfortunate underside. It's wise to respect our opponents, as there's a bit of truth on all sides.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not really, unless you want to argue for banning alcohol, cigarrettes,etc. Heck even independent thinking and entrepeneurship should be banned!.

"Buy a store kicked to the floor."

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh great, Pastor Greg Hogan is the father of the idiot kid at Lehigh who robbed a bank to pay his gambling debts. I'm sure he can blame that on Internet gambling vs. crappy parenting.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know, while I would agree that poor parenting is by far a more relevant factor, it is good to remember that the other side does have some legitimate points. Families do get hurt by these guys who can't control their gambling.

Anybody remember 2+2's own Cero, the self-described "pro player" and respected poster on the strategy forums? He donked away the family savings when his hot streak ended: http://www.slate.com/id/2144866/. Cero's wife and kids were innocent victims; they did nothing wrong.

Our hobby/passion/profession does have an unfortunate underside. It's wise to respect our opponents, as there's a bit of truth on all sides.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand what you're saying, but the religious right's using of gambling as an excuse (or even as a reasonable cause) to knock off a bank has no more validity than do any of the other myriad excuses criminals give for committing crimes. Funny thing is that you don't hear voices from the right trying to excuse criminals who say they were abused as children, for example.

These people are wonderful with "personal responsibility" and "pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps", but they turn 180 degrees here. Quite amusing. By the way, I agree with the "bootstap" argument. It's the hypocracy I disagree with.

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
Our hobby/passion/profession does have an unfortunate underside. It's wise to respect our opponents, as there's a bit of truth on all sides.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that some people hurt themselves gambling is true, but in no way is it a valid argument in support of prohibition. People can hurt themselves in pretty much any activity if they do not act responsibly.

[frommagio]

[ QUOTE ]

You know, while I would agree that poor parenting is by far a more relevant factor, it is good to remember that the other side does have some legitimate points. Families do get hurt by these guys who can't control their gambling.

Anybody remember 2+2's own Cero, the self-described "pro player" and respected poster on the strategy forums? He donked away the family savings when his hot streak ended: http://www.slate.com/id/2144866/. Cero's wife and kids were innocent victims; they did nothing wrong.

Our hobby/passion/profession does have an unfortunate underside. It's wise to respect our opponents, as there's a bit of truth on all sides.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guys (you last 3 or 4 posters) - obviously I want legal poker everywhere, of course! I'm not saying that our opponents are correct - all I'm saying is that we should try to respect them, and understand their motivations. They may be fuzzy thinkers, but they truly believe they are doing good.

There's a grain of truth that sustains them. It's too late for us to help Cero and his family, but if we knew then what we know now - don't you think that we would have tried to help him as a community? Of course we would have, he was one of us. Think of his poor family!

That's our opponents' motivation, but they wrongly think that the government needs to protect all of us from ourselves. They're mostly well-meaning folks; they're just not deep thinkers. But we need to understand why they have strength; problem gambling has caused a lot of heartache.

Having said that, let's have our panel roll them 4-1 ... politely!

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying that our opponents are correct - all I'm saying is that we should try to respect them, and understand their motivations. They may be fuzzy thinkers, but they truly believe they are doing good.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they are honest about their motivations then fine. I may be wrong but I believe groups like FOF use stories like the pastor's bank robber son as a red herring. I believe their true objection to gambling is that they believe it is inherently a sin of some sort. And they want this country to codify their religious beliefs.

[ekdikeo]

erm, out of curiosity, did Cero's story turn worse? I remember reading that article a long time ago. It ended with what seemed to be a happy ending for everyone.

[Scottyy]

We are looking for "feel-good" stories that may be referenced during this hearing. For example a disabled person that plays online poker for their entertainment, or a soldier in Iraq? We are interested in telling the story of a few players in which online poker is a positive in their life (not just making money). If you know a person that fits what we are looking for please PM me today.

Scotty

[WorkinGuy09]

So someone loses 8 grand online over a period of time(I win and lose every day this amount). That person goes and robs a bank, did this person only take his 8 thousand back? Afer all this is what poker robbed him of, so if poker is responsible for that 8, whats responsible for the amount stolen above that(10s of thousands of dollars)? Can you not lose 8 grand on lottery for a year, this really pisses me off!

[Uglyowl]

[ QUOTE ]
Can you not lose 8 grand on lottery for a year, this really pisses me off!

[/ QUOTE ]

I can rattle off a dozen people who lost 10 times that when the tech bubble burst. Alot of those people went through alot of pain too including one guy nearly losing his house.

We all make choices to make everyday and most if aren't done correctly could cost us dearly.

[Skallagrim]

As both a matter of tactics and ethics, frommagio and uglyowl are right. Politics is ultimately about compromise, about finding a solution that most people will accept. Its been said that true compromise pleases no one, but satisfies all.

Thats the correct approach here. We must recognize our obligation to minimize the harm that some people will do to themselves with legal gambling. We must convince the folks who care about the harm that the better way to address this harm is through a legal and regulated market.

The fact that prohibition was an utter failure does not mean that alcohol does not contribute to harm in society. And the fact that alcohol contributes to harm does not mean it would be wise to go back to prohibition.

Skallagrim

[whaahhahahah]

I like that Barney Frank is hosting this.

[AlanF1]

someone record this and upload it afterwards please

[Fold 4 Value]

[ QUOTE ]
As both a matter of tactics and ethics, frommagio and uglyowl are right. Politics is ultimately about compromise, about finding a solution that most people will accept. Its been said that true compromise pleases no one, but satisfies all.

Thats the correct approach here. We must recognize our obligation to minimize the harm that some people will do to themselves with legal gambling. We must convince the folks who care about the harm that the better way to address this harm is through a legal and regulated market.

The fact that prohibition was an utter failure does not mean that alcohol does not contribute to harm in society. And the fact that alcohol contributes to harm does not mean it would be wise to go back to prohibition.

Skallagrim

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT


Seems the people that have a issue with the pastors testimony should also have a problem with scottyy's plea for "feel good" stories.

[kickabuck]

[ QUOTE ]
We are looking for "feel-good" stories that may be referenced during this hearing. For example a disabled person that plays online poker for their entertainment, or a soldier in Iraq? We are interested in telling the story of a few players in which online poker is a positive in their life (not just making money). If you know a person that fits what we are looking for please PM me today.

Scotty

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably a good idea for this to be its own thread, many more will see it. It is imperative to counter the real world sob stories with some reality of our own.

[Uglyowl]

Here is my story about the good of online poker, I am sure some are better, but it at least adds to it.


Hi Scotty,

In February 2004, I was diagnosed with Stage 3 Hodgkin’s Lymphoma, a form of cancer. Due to fatigue for a week after each treatment and a supressed immune system, I was unable to make it to casinos to play a game I love, poker.

During this scary time in my life and 6 months of treatment there was lots of being alone and unable to do much of anything. Online poker allowed me to play when I wanted, where I wanted (laying down in bed resting), and how ever long I wanted. If I could only play for a half hour and then it worked.

While playing online poker, I met many great people and had a sense of being “normal”. Further online poker was a great distraction from a very serious illness. Unlike television, poker is a game which makes you think and engages your mind. While playing I forgot about my illness.

Thanks and good luck during the hearing, I am sure you will get a lot of good stories, but here is mine if you feel like using it.

-Joe

[ChrisAJ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the heads-up.

Everyone, PLEASE email, snail mail (email it as well so it's there in time) fax or call your congressman over the next few days. Our opponents definitely will.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many of them will be at home over this weekend, so stalking them while they're out kissing babies probably will work too. Shake their hand and give them a well-reasoned argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would suggest that people focus their efforts re: this hearing to those members who actually serve on the committee.

[Grasshopp3r]

Perhaps the pastor is there to support the need to restrict access to those above the age of 21. In that respect, he may very well be an ally.

[Uglyowl]

We will be able to watch!

Webcast of the "Can Internet Gambling Be Effectively Regulated to Protect Consumers and the Payments System?" hearing:

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/financialsvcs_dem/ht060807.shtml

Please voice your opinion to as many committee members as possible:

http://financialservices.house.gov/members.html

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps the pastor is there to support the need to restrict access to those above the age of 21. In that respect, he may very well be an ally.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll give you 10-1 on that proposition. It was clear from the start that the tilted bank robber dude was gonna be a poster boy for the "click your mouse" crowd. I'd be shocked if the pastor has anything positive to say about gambling, though in the new political climate hopefully his views will be met with some degree of reason.

[frommagio]

[ QUOTE ]
erm, out of curiosity, did Cero's story turn worse? I remember reading that article a long time ago. It ended with what seemed to be a happy ending for everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it could hardly get worse. He worked his bankroll up to $60-70k or so, then lost it all and more, dipped into the untouchable savings (a negative bankroll, essentially). But then, I recall that he began winning when his family started eating cheaply. Not pleasant.

Don't know if he ever worked his way out or not. He wouldn't be the first pro to go bust a few times when learning his lessons. For him, obviously talent wasn't the problem; clearly bankroll management was an issue, and maybe tilt as well. If he can get beyond his limitations, perhaps he can move from talented gambler to pro player.

But his wife and kids paid a steep price, and that's not right. These stories of the social damage caused by folks who can't control their gambling problem are very, very sad. We should not be surprised that many public leaders instinctively want to fix the problem - whether or not they understand it.

The problem, of course, is: how can the government possibly distinguish between me and him?

[Legislurker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps the pastor is there to support the need to restrict access to those above the age of 21. In that respect, he may very well be an ally.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll give you 10-1 on that proposition. It was clear from the start that the tilted bank robber dude was gonna be a poster boy for the "click your mouse" crowd. I'd be shocked if the pastor has anything positive to say about gambling, though in the new political climate hopefully his views will be met with some degree of reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forgive my hostility to the clergy in this country, but this man is sitting on a gold mine. He has a story, an issue, and a platform to tell it from. Greed or ambition one will appeal to him to ride this. Preaching careful, reasoned regulation doesn't fill up the offering plate.

[TheEngineer]

Updated witness list:

Howard Lederer, Professional Poker Player and Poker Industry Software Consultant
Radley Balko, Senior Editor, Reason Magazine
Jon Prideaux, Chief Executive, Asterion Payments
Gerald Kitchen, Chief Executive Officer, SecureTrading Ltd
Pastor Greg Hogan
Jeff Schmidt, CEO Authis

From http://jschmidt.org/schmidt-bio.pdf :

[ QUOTE ]
Jeff Schmidt is the founder and CEO of Authis, a provider of innovative risk-managed identity services for the financial vertical. With a unique blend of technical expertise and business savvy, Jeff has consistently shown results delivering information security products and services. A proven entrepreneur, Jeff founded Secure Interiors (SI), an early entrant into the managed Internet security space. After founding the company in 2000, he managed the business to acquisition in 2003 by Telsource Corporation, a $100MM telecommunications integrator. Jeff also assisted in the re-launch of ENDFORCE (formerly SmartPipes) by managing their flagship product offering to initial revenue generation. ENDFORCE was subsequently acquired by Sophos.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aside from the pastor, sounds like we're in good shape for Friday's hearing.

[Jack Bando]

Even with the pastor I think we're good. Lederer is a very good speaker annd I feel he can refute anything the pastor says.

[Jestocost]

I'm guessing that Jeff Schmidt is being asked to speak about age verification. He's written extensively on the subject and it seems as if he will present a rational view. If you want to see some of his writings on that issue, click the link below:

Jeff Schmidt on Internet Age Verification (http://www.jschmidt.org/AgeVerification/index.html)

[NozeCandy]

I really hope the pastor goes into a rage and starts ranting about morals and God.

[Coy_Roy]

[ QUOTE ]
I really hope the pastor goes into a rage and starts ranting about morals and God.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, and I hope he lays hands on Lederer and cries HEAL!....HEAL!.....I COMMAND THY FOUL WICKED SPIRITS....OUT!....HEAL!



http://www.evangelicalright.com/faithhealer.jpg

That would be good.

[Jestocost]

As of this afternoon, Howard Lederer's name has been dropped from the witness list at the House Committee hearing this Friday. We'll see if they get add another player or not. Might be tough to get someone to make the trip with the WSOP going on.

[Coy_Roy]

[ QUOTE ]
As of this afternoon, Howard Lederer's name has been dropped from the witness list at the House Committee hearing this Friday. We'll see if they get add another player or not. Might be tough to get someone to make the trip with the WSOP going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh man, that's a big loss at a very important time.

[LeapFrog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As of this afternoon, Howard Lederer's name has been dropped from the witness list at the House Committee hearing this Friday. We'll see if they get add another player or not. Might be tough to get someone to make the trip with the WSOP going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh man, that's a big loss at a very important time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm Howard must have read the NVG posts concerning his impending arrest and fled the country /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

This is unfortunate. Howard always struck me as a calm, rational individual and would I think have made an excellent witness for the committee. I wonder what prompted the change.

[PBJaxx]

[ QUOTE ]
As of this afternoon, Howard Lederer's name has been dropped from the witness list at the House Committee hearing this Friday. We'll see if they get add another player or not. Might be tough to get someone to make the trip with the WSOP going on.

[/ QUOTE ]
This could make a HUGE difference.

[ProfessorBen]

Hey Guys,
I've worked in the Senate as an intern for a bit before and attended tons of hearings.

For those of you unfamiliar, here's a breakdown of what happens in a Congressional hearing:
Hearing begins. Chairman goes through welcoming and procedural stuff(Frank talks about happenings of the Committee, usually unimportant)
Chairman calls on each witness to talk for about 10 minutes.
After everyone has given their testimony, questions begin. The Chairman usually gets to ask the first round of questions(2-3 questions). These questions are usually directed at 1 person and can be about something mentioned in the testimony or completely unrelated. Customarily, once the Chairman is done, the ranking Republican on the committee gets next dibs, followed by any Congressmen in the room in a specified order. People who are keenly interested usually stay around or come back for a 2nd round of questions. (This is a good sign of who our main allies/opponents are)

A couple of other notes:
Hearings are open to the public. People who have press/staff badges get in first, but otherwise you can get in for free if you want. (Obviously, the webcast will be available too.)

Each witness usually has a printed statement thats submitted and posted usually 2-3 days before. Witnesses typically don't read their statement verbatim, so it does provide some more details, if you're interested.

Congressmen are busy. Thus, usually, only Congressman who already have a stake/position on this issue will attend or ask questions. If the issue is unimportant to them, Congressmen usually send their staffs to cover the hearing and you won't hear any unbiased questions. Basically, don't expect this to be an objective, informative hearing. Expect politics to be at play and people to push for angles.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
As of this afternoon, Howard Lederer's name has been dropped from the witness list at the House Committee hearing this Friday. We'll see if they get add another player or not. Might be tough to get someone to make the trip with the WSOP going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oddly this might be good news. Howard has a felony conviction on record related to bookmaking from quite a few years ago(its a minor situation, I think he avoided jail time or spent just a day in the can - I forget), he would be exempt from operating a poker room based on Frank's new law.

I love Howard and really respect the man, its probably in his best interest - and in our best interest as well that he does not testify.

[ekdikeo]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, it could hardly get worse. He worked his bankroll up to $60-70k or so, then lost it all and more, dipped into the untouchable savings (a negative bankroll, essentially). But then, I recall that he began winning when his family started eating cheaply. Not pleasant.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not pleasant, but certainly not the worst that can happen. When that article ended, he was apparently again trending upwards, and had started to work his bankroll back up, and had his savings back to where it started.

I just busted into my poker bankroll to cover getting transportation setup for myself, again, so i'm on my fourth dip to below $1k from a high of just around $3k.. though this time I didn't lose 2/3rds of my roll..
I also haven't deposited into a poker room since 2000, and my current roll was completely started from free.

I actually feel bad about busting into my gaming money, but it's for a greater good - now I can get to the casinos regularly instead of playing for piddly online only. I can beat 1/2NL all day long (usually) at Greektown casino, but I sure as hell can't beat it on FT, AP or CP..

[AlanF1]

[ QUOTE ]
someone record this and upload it afterwards please

[/ QUOTE ]

[Coy_Roy]

4 hours and counting.

[Reef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
someone record this and upload it afterwards please

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

!

[1p0kerboy]

Is this on CSPAN?

[Uglyowl]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this on CSPAN?

[/ QUOTE ]

They have a webcast at worst.

[1p0kerboy]

[ QUOTE ]
They have a webcast at worst.


[/ QUOTE ]

Where can I find it?

Do you guys get 3 CSPAN channels? Not on any of them?

[Ron Burgundy]

I get 3 CSPANS. I guess it'll be on one of them in 1.5 hours.

[1p0kerboy]

CSPAN 1 according to their website.

[TheEngineer]

I think Samantha Bee from The Daily Show should question him. She did a great job last time:

--------------------------

Samantha Bee:

The best part about poker is there’s no down side. Last year people won more than one billion dollars playing poker. And casinos made twenty-seven billion just by being around those people. But some people actually hate the surefire money of poker; like gambling addiction counsler, Arnie Wexler.

Arnie Wexler:

When it’s on TV it looks glitzy. They’ve got young girls on there. People are coming there and winning money. But in the long run these people will all be destroyed.

Samantha Bee [voiceover]:

Wexler has a reason to be bitter.

Arnie Wexler:

I’m a recovering compulsive gambler. I placed my last bet on April 10th 1968. I gambled on everything. I gambled on how many cockroaches are coming out of the, uh, under the rug. By the time I stopped gambling, I owed thirty-two people three years annual salary.

Samantha Bee:

But what’s it like for people who don’t suck at gambling?

Arnie Wexler [confused look]:

Gimme that question again.

Samantha Bee:

What’s it like for people who don’t suck at gambling?

Arnie Wexler [looking even more confused]:

You lost me with that one.

Samantha goes on to interview Michael Sandberg, a Princeton college student who has made over $90,000 playing online poker. The interview returns to Arnie and Samantha.

Arnie Wexler:

I’ve heard a lot of stories about that guy from Princeton. I’ve heard he’s made some money, I’ve heard he’s lost some money. The longer he plays the less money he’s gonna have. That’s the bottom line with gamblers.

I had a young man that stole hundreds of thousands of dollars from his parents to pay off gambling debts. And that’s a true story.

Samantha Bee [looking very concerned]:

Oh man. That is just terrible. Tsk. That is awful.

Samantha Bee [now with a huge grin]:

Ok. Actually, you know when I said that was terrible? That was me bluffing! That’s the skill that’s gonna make me rich!

[Artsemis]

It's started
http://www.house.gov/htbin/leave_site?ln...ices&amp;wait=2 (http://www.house.gov/htbin/leave_site?ln_url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia-live/financialserv/16489/300_financialserv-qwertyuiop_070131.asx&amp;ln_desc=Live+Webcast&amp;tmpl=/financialservices&amp;wait=2)

[1p0kerboy]

Frank speaking now.

He's pretty good.

[tangled]

Frank's great. He hits all the points, and does it well. a true believer in personal freedom.

[Richas]

How many times can that bloke from Alabamma say "illegal".

Over/ under 780?

[dlk9s]

[ QUOTE ]
How many times can that bloke from Alabamma say "illegal".

Over/ under 780?

[/ QUOTE ]

And how many times can he forget to say it and then correct himself?

I'll have to go back and re-listen, but I call [censored] on that Connecticut study that said 74% of people who gamble online frequently (I think it said frequently or something like that) have a problem. That's complete [censored].

[illini43]

The girl in the background looks like she needs about 100 hours of sleep.

[1p0kerboy]

And BS that 1/3 of gambling addicts attempt suicide.

[illini43]

[ QUOTE ]
And BS that 1/3 of gambling addicts attempt suicide.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe the sample size for this survey was 3.

[Jzo19]

where does spencer bacchus get his numbers , "75 percent of internet gamblers are addicts and use illegal activities to fund their addiction" ..jeez

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How many times can that bloke from Alabamma say "illegal".

Over/ under 780?

[/ QUOTE ]

And how many times can he forget to say it and then correct himself?

I'll have to go back and re-listen, but I call [censored] on that Connecticut study that said 74% of people who gamble online frequently (I think it said frequently or something like that) have a problem. That's complete [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

Wexler, Paul and Frank will straighten him out. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Ron Burgundy]

Boca Raton = Mah Jong capitol of the world? lol

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Boca Raton = Mah Jong capitol of the world? lol

[/ QUOTE ]

It is big there in the retirement communities there, believe it or not (I used to live there). Wexler says a lot of his older constituents have complained to him about UIGEA, which surprised him.

[BlackAndRed]

Mah Jong = donkfest?

[TheEngineer]

I'm glad we encourged Ron Paul....I'd hate for him to have skipped this hearing due to his presidential run.

[1p0kerboy]

WEexler is good.

Summary of his speech:

1. You can already legally gamble on the internet on horses, lotteries, and other games.
2. If underage people are gambling online, parents aren't doing their job.

[Jzo19]

/images/graemlins/heart.gif robert wexler

[1p0kerboy]

Paul: "Prohibition doesn't work and will drive gambling underground."

[Richas]

[ QUOTE ]
Mah Jong = donkfest?

[/ QUOTE ]

being good at mah jong is tough, i bet there are some minting it.

[Artsemis]

gogo Ron Paul!

[ughaulkghalugh]

lol people who play mahjong are old lol

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/heart.gif robert wexler

[/ QUOTE ]

[TheEngineer]

So far, so good! Frank is slapping down Spencer Bachus' incorrect statements with ease.

[Artsemis]

Reason.com guy about to speak

[bossplayer]

I was a Republican for most of my life. Now I am neither. I am genuinely ashamed of our representatives that oppose this. This crap is getting repealed.

Of course we all see it from a biased point of view, but man.... there is no way that poker, or any other gambling should be 'illegal' for americans to play online.

OMG are these republicans for real? When the WTO is brought up did Bachus really say 'they can come here and gamble at our racetracks'? Uh, can you say retarded?

These dudes are absolutely an embarrassment to the Republican party.

[1p0kerboy]

Reason magazine guy is a very good speaker.

[Artsemis]

[ QUOTE ]
I was a Republican for most of my life. Now I am neither. I am genuinely ashamed of our representatives that oppose this. This crap is getting repealed.

Of course we all see it from a biased point of view, but man.... there is no way that poker, or any other gambling should be 'illegal' for americans to play online.

OMG are these republicans for real? When the WTO is brought up did Bachus really say 'they can come here and gamble at our racetracks'? Uh, can you say retarded?

These dudes are absolutely an embarrassment to the Republican party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ron Paul is running republican, doesn't play poker, but doesn't think it should be illegal. There's still some real conservatives.

[TMTTR]

"A significant and disturbing encroachment on individuals' liberty"

[1p0kerboy]

Wow. Reason magazine guy was incredible. Can someone post parts of his speech?

[Beastmaster]

agreed...Reason mag dude must read this board....

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. Reason magazine guy was incredible. Can someone post parts of his speech?

[/ QUOTE ]

It will probably be on Reason.com soon. Also, Balko is a regular Foxnews.com contributor, so it may be there as well (which would be awesome)

[ImsaKidd]

Reading the stuff in this thread makes me excited.

[jschaud]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/heart.gif robert wexler

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Reason magazine guy is a very good speaker.

[/ QUOTE ]

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
agreed...Reason mag dude must read this board....

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's his Oct. 26, 2006 article.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,224157,00.html

Online Gambling Ban a Bad Bet for Republicans
Monday , October 23, 2006

By Radley Balko

In the wee hours of the last night of the last session of Congress, Majority Leader Bill Frist attached a ban on Internet gambling to a port security bill.

It was a dubious maneuver, which not only prevented any real floor debate over the ban, but also attached an intrusive, unnecessary, big government measure to a bill that addressed important national security concerns. This meant that any senator who held the position that what Americans do with their own money in their own homes on their own time is none of the government's business couldn't vote against the gambling ban, lest they risk being smacked about the head with the "soft on national security" cudgel.

If Frist's move was underhanded, it was also wholly appropriate, given the way the GOP has handled this issue. The debate — to the extent that there has actually been one — has been marred by misdirection, red herrings, and a certain obliviousness among the bill's supporters to, well, reality.

The two Republican congressmen pushing the ban in the House of Representatives, for example, — Rep. Jim Leach and Rep. Bob Goodlatte — tried for months to sell the ban as an effort to exorcise the scourge of Jack Abramoff from the Congress and the Republican party, as if Abramoff were the reason the bill never passed in the first place.

In fact, the bill we now have is nearly identical to the bill Jack Abramoff would have wanted. The bill bans online poker, sports wagering and casino games, but doesn't touch state lotteries or horse racing (which, by the way, has in the past made some meaty contributions to Rep. Goodlatte's campaign chest).

Contrary to what Reps. Goodlatte and Leach would have us believe, the bill Jack Abramoff was pushing was also a prohibition on poker, sports wagering, and casino games. And it also contained exemptions for state lotteries, as requested by one of Abramoff's clients, eLottery.

It only gets worse from there. When the lobbying reform package fell apart, the Republicans tried a new approach, bundling the ban with flag burning, gay marriage, and a number of policies on the GOP social agenda as part of the "American Values" agenda. That's how it passed the House.

In the Senate, Frist first tried to attach the ban to a bill reauthorizing funding for U.S. troops in Iraq. When that didn't work out, he fell back on the last-minute port security bill.

In addition to invoking Abramoff, the ban's supporters frequently invoked the "for the children" canard, and relayed anecdotes about problem gamblers who frittered away their kids' college education with online wagers. In truth, there has yet to be a significant peer-reviewed study of online gambling habits, and whether they're more or less conducive to addictive behavior (there have been studies of state lotteries, however, and most show them to be among the most addictive forms of gambling).

Most online wagers are made in poker rooms. Poker is a game with some element of chance, but with a significant component of skill. Good poker players will turn a profit, which is why lots of people make a living playing the game (as opposed to say, slot machines or roulette).

Poker professionals — three of whom came to D.C. earlier this year to speak against the ban — argue that the game isn't really gambling at all. At the very least, it's not a particularly addictive form of wagering. Of course, some (like me) would argue that the nature of poker is beside the broader point: preventing people from playing games of chance simply isn't a legitimate function of the federal government.

At the very least, there are surely items on the DOJ's agenda that ought to be of higher priority — fighting terrorism, for example.

Reps. Leach and Goodlatte, along with Sens. Frist and John Kyl, frequently used the words "untaxed" and "unregulated" when describing the estimated $12 billion Americans wager each year online. But they're "untaxed" and "unregulated" because Congress made online gambling illegal in the first place, pushing gaming sites offshore.

In fact, the major gaming sites are begging to be both taxed and regulated. They'd much rather set up shop in the U.S., pay U.S. taxes, and be subject to U.S. laws and regulations. They'd rather carry the seal of legitimacy that comes with being recognized and incorporated on U.S. soil. Were online gambling legalized and regulated, we'd likely see trusted names like Harrah's, Bally, and MGM get into the business.

Despite all of the dire warnings from the ban's supporters about fraud, graft, and preying on minors, this bill will actually make all of those problems worse. Many of the major gaming sites are publicly traded, and/or incorporated in countries like Great Britain or Canada. They are taxed and regulated, just not by the U.S. government.

Before this bill was rushed through the Senate, cautious poker players or sports bettors could choose to patronize companies that are subject to market regulation, or are incorporated in countries that respect the rule of law. Most of those sites also have vigilant child-protection measures in place, and some even have stopgap features players who know their own weaknesses can use to limit their betting. Watchdog groups have sprung up to monitor the fairness and integrity of these sites (private, non-government regulation — imagine that!).

Immediately after the ban passed Congress, many of the major gaming sites announced they'd no longer do business with U.S. customers. Most I'd imagine were intimidated by the U.S. Department of Justice's recent penchant for plucking foreign gaming site executives out of U.S. airports and tossing them in prison, despite the fact that their businesses were legal in the country where they were incorporated, and where they were citizens (think of the implications there for Americans traveling abroad)

So once the major gaming sites stop doing business with U.S. customers, who is that going to affect? The problem gambler? The curious minor who swiped his parents' credit card?

Not likely. The people who are going to be affected by the ban are the millions of Americans who play online poker recreationally — and responsibly. But that $12 billion per year is going to simply dry up. Problem gamblers and minors will still be able to find places online to make wagers.

Any attempt to prohibit consensual activity is going to create black and gray markets. The legitimate, law-abiding gaming sites may now be out of reach for Americans, but that'll create a niche for truly unregulated sites. These sites will be far more prone to fraud, won't much care about the age of their customers, and customers who are defrauded will have no recourse.

There's also no telling who's behind them. But it's probably a safe bet (pardon the pun) to say that the people operating black market, blatantly illegal gambling sites will include a significant criminal element.

Some say the GOP pushed this ban to light a fire under family values voters. Others say their intent was more nefarious — to protect established gambling interests from online competitors. There may be some truth in both of those explanations, though I think the main motivation for the bill was simply the moral aversion to gambling held by its chief sponsors — Goodlatte, Kyl, and Leach — and a desire to impose that moral rectitude on the rest of the country.

What does seem clear is that none of the people behind this bill were interested in thoughtful debate, any serious consideration of the bill's implications or consequences, or the principle of a limited, "leave us alone" federal government.

Polls show that Americans are overwhelmingly opposed to a federal ban on Internet gambling. Industry experts estimate that some 15-20 million Americans wager online each year. The overwhelming majority do so responsibly. This largely apolitical group could well get politically motivated the first time they try to log on, and are told their small-stakes poker game has now been outlawed by the Republican leadership in Congress. If this was a political move, there's a pretty good chance it'll backfire, and cost the GOP more votes than it wins them.

[Novles]

[ QUOTE ]
Reading the stuff in this thread gives me a boner.

[/ QUOTE ]

[jschaud]

It sounded like LaTourette just needs someone to assure him that some quality barriers for underage gambling can be implemented. Also, your 19 and 23 year old can get credit cards with or without legalized gambling.

[Richas]

Go brit guy.

Regulated world with know your customer processes means you can protect the vulnerable, prevent money laundering and stop under 18s.

Internet gambling has less fraud than buying online. No complaints to visa of cheating on sites or problem gambling, no money launder.

Internet gambling can and should be regulated.

[jschaud]

the guy worked on windows security? his credentials are now worthless,lol.

[bossplayer]

You know what flies are attracted to?

Bachus couldn't shoo it away.... lol

[WorkinGuy09]

God this Microsoft security guy is such a [censored]! I hate him

[bossplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
God this Microsoft security guy is such a [censored]! I hate him

[/ QUOTE ]

The fly did a drive by of him too.

[RGL]

The Microsoft guy's argument means that all Internet commerce as well as all age restricted products and electronic payments should be banned!

[derosnec]

age verification blah blah

let's just ban all internet commerce

[bossplayer]

That is a very good point, let's see if anyone picks up on that.

[jschaud]

i would think that it would be tougher to set up a poker account than to get your of age buddy to buy you beer and cigarettes.

[WorkinGuy09]

This guy is so wrong, it is so easy to geo trac someone, every pc has an ip address, an ip address is a basically a pc's phone number. He is full of sh t I winder where he gets his data from.

[Richas]

Pastor - I blame the parents.

[jonyy6788]

[censored] here comes the pastor

[derosnec]

no one cares about your son. maybe if he wasn't playing a 80/4/1 game he wouldnt have to rob a bank

[bossplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
This guy is so wrong, it is so easy to geo trac someone, every pc has an ip address, an ip address is a basically a pc's phone number. He is full of sh t I winder where he gets his data from.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was payed to state certain things, bet on that!

[JMa]

lol, the pastor is seriously retarded

[derosnec]

waiting for Barney to reply

"But how much did he win?"

[Flacks]

The pastor is a disgrace to my home state. His son was a tool.

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
the guy worked on windows security? his credentials are now worthless,lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

"windows security" is an oxymoron

[1p0kerboy]

So this kid abused online gambling so we should just ban it for all of America.

Stupid.

[derosnec]

pastor makes a good point

how many of us here haven't robbed a bank?

[Richas]

I don't see bank robbing and going to gaol as +ev.

[limit refugee]

Many parents came home to kids who have commited suicide from internet gambling.

The pastor is a lying idiot, I see where his son got the stupids from.

[jschaud]

[ QUOTE ]
This guy is so wrong, it is so easy to geo trac someone, every pc has an ip address, an ip address is a basically a pc's phone number. He is full of sh t I winder where he gets his data from.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not exactly. It can be rerouted to look like it came from where ever you want.

[ QUOTE ]
waiting for Barney to reply

"But how much did he win?"

[/ QUOTE ]

lmao

[ QUOTE ]
no one cares about your son. maybe if he wasn't playing a 80/4/1 game he wouldnt have to rob a bank

[/ QUOTE ]

I know people had to lose back in 2005, but anyone with a HS diploma should have been crushing up through 10/20 after reading the cover of SSHE.

[BlackAndRed]

Son came home from rehab and said "Dad, I never realized how EVIL internet gambling is".

Er, I guess, "Dad, I never realized what an irresponsible, dishonest, morally adrift human being I am" was unavailable.

[jschaud]

thats the interview i loved from a couple years ago. i think he offers to write a check for next years estimated taxes to the US gov't on the spot.

[questions]

[ QUOTE ]
pastor makes a good point

how many of us here haven't robbed a bank?

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/laugh.gif LOL

[Jestocost]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. Reason magazine guy was incredible. Can someone post parts of his speech?

[/ QUOTE ]

Click here for the Reason guy's prepared testimony. (http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/financialsvcs_dem/htbalko060807.pdf)

[tangled]

So jeff schmidt if it is so easy to disguise your age, your location and your id, then it would be easy for a motvated gambler, say one who is willing to rob a bank to support his addiction, to access a foreign gambling site?
The only people who will be stopped in the case of prohibtion from gambling are the responsible gamer, not the irresponsible one? Isn't that true Mr. Schmidt?

[Uglyowl]

Son robs bank; ban online poker

Is equal to

Some alter boys raped at church; Ban all churches

[bossplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Son robs bank; ban online poker

Is equal to

Some alter boys raped at church; Ban all churches

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be too funny if that counterpoint was made. Funny!

[RGL]

Go Barney on age verification!

[Artsemis]

Frank just said he doesn't gamble??

[jschaud]

i liked the last guy, with the crazy grey hair. i agree with him that the AVERAGE person can not/will not hide their location on the internet. when i piped up that it is easy to make it look like you came from anywhere, i should have mentioned that I am almost finished with my masters in information systems.

[limit refugee]

WTF, who's pocket is the pastor in...full of contradictions. He must have a foundation that is getting some fine donations.

[JMa]

LOL...is MR bachus for real?

[RGL]

He doesn't know the difference between online and b&amp;m!! What a joke!

[jschaud]

oh dear god, my very family oriented italian grandmother used to kick my ass at gin rummy for pennies at a time. she never missed mass, was a girl scout troop leader, and raised 7 successful children. you telling me an older brother teaching his kid brother how to play cards is ruining society. GTFO

[bossplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL...is MR bachus for real?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah that!!! Who the hell is he related to, in order to get where he is?

[Legislurker]

The Mark Colopy guy from Aristotle is impressive. Bachus from Alabama.......wow........sounds as dumb as Hogan.

[Corpsebean]

Holy christ Bachus is a [censored] idiot.

[Popinjay]

How the hell did Bachus get elected? Our country is going to ****.

[Artsemis]

Seriously, why did Frank say he doesn't gamble? Hasn't he said before in articles that he enjoys poker? That doesn't look good on anyone that picks up on it.

[BlackAndRed]

Wow. Just, wow. I hope his constituents are watching this.

[jschaud]

are these guys gonna do a committee vote after all this? (maybe i shoulda dropped statistics and probabilities and enrolled in government 101)

[CaptVimes]

Bachus is an idiot

[limit refugee]

Listening to Bacchus try to figure out what he is talking about is gold.

I wanna be a US rep, seems easier than poker.

[Corpsebean]

Bachus sounds exactly like this guy...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/88/FamilyGuyHerbert.jpg/140px-FamilyGuyHerbert.jpg

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, why did Frank say he doesn't gamble? Hasn't he said before in articles that he enjoys poker? That doesn't look good on anyone that picks up on it.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's stated in the past that he doesn't gamble. There a clip on YouTube somewhere, where he's arguing against HR 4411.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Bachus is an idiot

[/ QUOTE ]

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, why did Frank say he doesn't gamble? Hasn't he said before in articles that he enjoys poker? That doesn't look good on anyone that picks up on it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did he say he didn't gamble or did he just agree with the Pastor that he does not believe people should gamble? Big difference...

or maybe Barney was just making a distinction between "gambling" (i.e., games of chance) and poker. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[jschaud]

LaTourette's gonna cave and come to our side, i can see it in his eyes.

[Artsemis]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, why did Frank say he doesn't gamble? Hasn't he said before in articles that he enjoys poker? That doesn't look good on anyone that picks up on it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did he say he didn't gamble or did he just agree with the Pastor that he does not believe people should gamble? Big difference...

[/ QUOTE ]

He said he doesn't gamble. And Engineer, if that's true I'd like to see it because I'm pretty sure I remember an article about him playing a home game.

[RGL]

Colopy on age/location verification is incredible! The hearing is really separating the wheat from the chaff, and our side is winding up with the makings for bread!

[Richas]

He doesn't gamble but thinks others should be free t do so if they want.

Seems fair enough to me.

[Popinjay]

I don't understand why people who so obviously cannot do basic operations on a computer are held responsible to make laws about the internet.

[Uglyowl]

Is Bachus agaisnt us or just being naive? I am unable to watch.

[TheEngineer]

This is as good as it gets for us, considering the HR 4411 vote margin, in that we are 3-2 on the panel (and we have three bright reps vs. one tool and one average guy), and are 3-2 on the witness list as well (again, three bright witnesses vs two tools).

We couldn't have asked for a better hearing, IMO. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Jzo19]

[ QUOTE ]
Is Bachus agaisnt us or just being naive? I am unable to watch.

[/ QUOTE ]

he's both

[Popinjay]

[ QUOTE ]
Is Bachus agaisnt us or just being naive? I am unable to watch.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bachus is an absolute idiot who is against us. However, his actions have been positive for our side by the sheer stupidity of them.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is Bachus agaisnt us or just being naive? I am unable to watch.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bachus is an absolute idiot who is against us. However, his actions have been positive for our side by the sheer stupidity of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

[Legislurker]

Any futures bets on whether or not the bio of the player gambling at age 10 is down by the end of business today?

[jschaud]

anyone have a list of which sites are regulated by the UK and which aren't? Just the major players would work. PP, PS, FTP, ongame, etc.

[RGL]

The Bible actually supports gambling? Great comment! I'd love to see the citations. Anyone know how to get them?

[PBJaxx]

Reading this thread has put me through an emotional roller coaster.

[Jestocost]

[ QUOTE ]
are these guys gonna do a committee vote after all this? (maybe i shoulda dropped statistics and probabilities and enrolled in government 101)

[/ QUOTE ]

No votes or anything today. This is just an informational hearing.

[JMa]

[ QUOTE ]
Is Bachus agaisnt us or just being naive? I am unable to watch.

[/ QUOTE ]

a quote from wikipedia

""There have been studies by Harvard University, University of Pennsylvania, McGill University in Canada, American Psychiatric Association -- all of these say the younger someone starts gambling, the more likelihood that they become a compulsive gambler. Addicted to gambling, just like addicted to drugs. So there is a correlation between drug dealers and gambling sites." - October 2006, CNN"

-spencer bachus

[Artsemis]

[ QUOTE ]
He doesn't gamble but thinks others should be free t do so if they want.

Seems fair enough to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

It does, but I'm saying I've heard him say he plays poker before. He must only play free games I suppose.

[Wynton]

I'm afraid I can't too excited by the reports that Frank and the others on our side are decisively winning the logic award. It's amazing how little that tends to matter at the end of the day.

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

if i get cancer, i am taking ten thousand pastors with me.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
The Bible actually supports gambling? Great comment! I'd love to see the citations. Anyone know how to get them?

[/ QUOTE ]

It was sweet, especially when the Baptist preacher grudgingly nodded in agreement.

[johnnycakes]

Wasn't Lederer on the original witness list?
Where is he?

[Artsemis]

Wait, what was the Bible comment please? As a Christian this interests me.

[Artsemis]

[ QUOTE ]
Wasn't Lederer on the orignal witness list?
Where is he?

[/ QUOTE ]

WSOP

[Kedu]

[ QUOTE ]
The Bible actually supports gambling? Great comment! I'd love to see the citations. Anyone know how to get them?

[/ QUOTE ]

When Judas died the disciples drew straws for who would replace him.

[Richas]

[ QUOTE ]
anyone have a list of which sites are regulated by the UK and which aren't? Just the major players would work. PP, PS, FTP, ongame, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

UK regulation is only possible from sept 2007. Currently all sites are outside the UK for their regulation.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is Bachus agaisnt us or just being naive? I am unable to watch.

[/ QUOTE ]

a quote from wikipedia

""There have been studies by Harvard University, University of Pennsylvania, McGill University in Canada, American Psychiatric Association -- all of these say the younger someone starts gambling, the more likelihood that they become a compulsive gambler. Addicted to gambling, just like addicted to drugs. So there is a correlation between drug dealers and gambling sites." - October 2006, CNN"

-spencer bachus

[/ QUOTE ]

I sent him a letter last month:

-------------------------------------

The Honorable Spencer Bachus
2246 Rayburn Building
Washington, D.C. 20515

Dear Congressman Bachus:

I’ve been following your efforts to restrict the ability of Americans to choose play Internet poker and other casino games in the privacy of their own homes. I’d like to share with you my humble opinion on the matter.

By way of introduction, I’m an engineer with one of the nation’s larger companies. After a long day at work, I enjoy playing a little poker on occasion, and I prefer playing in the comfort of my own home with my wife at my side to playing in a smoky casino. I happen to be skilled enough at the game to win significantly more than I lose, but that’s not really the point. Poker is an enjoyable game of skill, much as golfing or fishing. In fact, poker is one of the great American pastimes. Presidents, generals, Supreme Court Justices, members of Congress and average Americans have enjoyed the game for more than 150 years. It’s an honorable game.

As a fellow Republican, I share some of the concerns you’ve mentioned about online gambling. However, it’s not obvious that federal laws restricting our freedoms and liberties will solve these issues. After all, online gambling will continue internationally. In fact, the WTO has recently ruled the U.S. violated international trade law by prosecuting online gambling cases. As such, I urge you to support the Internet Gambling Regulation and Enforcement Act of 2007 (HR 2046).

HR 2046 provides real regulation, rather than a porous prohibition. A regulated Internet gambling environment will facilitate age verification and collection of federal and state taxes. It will also reduce any potential vulnerability of gambling websites to being used for money laundering, drug trafficking, or terrorist financing. With regulation, potential problems can be controlled without taking freedoms from Americans. After all, Russians and Eastern Europeans can gamble online; it seems the U.S. should trust its citizens at least as much as Russia trusts theirs, right?

On the topic of freedom, it seems the Republican Party has chosen to be the party of social conservatism only. The party now supports big government as long as it promotes the party’s social agenda. As such, it appears limited-government Goldwater/Reagan Republicans like myself are no longer welcome in the party. However, without us, it’s hard to see how the Republican Party can be a majority party again. Do you like being in the minority, as you are today? What happens when a libertarian-conservative Democrat runs against you on a platform of a smaller federal government? Ironic (at least at one time), but very foreseeable now. As an aside, when that does happen, the way things stand now he’ll likely receive a lot of donations from poker players around the nation. Also, many younger voters will wake up and turn out like they did against Rep. Leach.

Proponents of online gambling prohibition often mention endorsements UIGEA received from some in the religious community, some family groups, some financial services groups and some professional sports organizations. I hope you’ll consider the fact that these groups do not necessarily represent the majority of voters in our nation (or even the majority of Alabama Republicans). As for religious and family groups, there is no prohibition against gambling in the Bible. As a Christian, I personally find it offensive that so many so-called religious folks are willing to give away our freedoms, especially in pursuit of a goal not even defined in the Bible. As for financial services groups, some credit card issuers may like UIGEA (due only to the risk of losing players refusing to pay up), but I don’t believe banks wish to be the enforcers of UIGEA. As a result, I think you’ll find financial services groups to be net losers as a result of UIGEA. Finally, I believe the concerns of the major professional sports organizations relate only to sports betting. A regulated online gambling environment, like the one created by HR 2046, addresses that concern.

Online gambling will continue to exist with or without the participation of the United States. We’re losing our opportunity to control the games via regulation as well as the opportunities for U.S. companies to operate the games both domestically and internationally. This is costing America jobs and tax revenue.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,

TheEngineer

[RGL]

The representative from Kansas City, who is against "illegal gambling," said the Bible was actually pro gambling, and had many references within it. The Baptist pastor shook his head in agreement. So apparently it is so. Again, love to see citations. It might me the most powerful even though non-logical arguments we could cite. Can you imagine quoting the Bible in defending poker against the moralistic crusaders!

[jschaud]

THAT DEMENTIA RIDDEN OLD LADY IS A FREAKIN CONGRESSWOMAN?

[Corpsebean]

LOL @ this woman up there with a mouthful of hard candy.

[Jzo19]

so far im optimistic , but whats the next step? any1 know?

[Soulman]

Can anyone sum up the names, organization (and where relevant) position of the central figures? Thanks.

[aditya]

What exactly will happen if this bill is passed or not passed? What happens if it is passed? What happens if it is not passed?

[chisness]

what is this lady chewing on?

[skitzo444]

I love the black woman!

[CaptVimes]

Go strange rep from Indiana. Yes tell us, what's the difference?

[OnTheReal]

[ QUOTE ]
what is this lady chewing on?

[/ QUOTE ]

her gums?

[Artsemis]

rofl she silenced the room

[Popinjay]

Al Gore invented the internet. I don't think that was a joke comment.

[Soulman]

lol....dunno who it was, but saying "Al Gore invented the internet" should be ground for immediate dismissal from the debate /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[WiltOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
I love the black woman!

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd hit it

lol at the pastor saying "before al gore invented the internet" i hope it was sarcasm, but it sure didn't sound like it.

[costanza_g]

Is it just me or did this lady die 5 years ago?

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
THAT DEMENTIA RIDDEN OLD LADY IS A FREAKIN CONGRESSWOMAN?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what you're saying, but Rep. Julia Carson has been consistently on our side (against HR 4411, 4477, and everything else). She's a cosponsor of IGREA as well.

[RGL]

Man, this lady is really nailing it! She's talking about the elephant in the room, and doing so with more clarity than anyone else who spoke!

[OnTheReal]

OMG she can chew on her dentures all day and i still love this woman

[Corpsebean]

Wow this old woman is like the Oracle from the Matrix or something.

Awesome.

[1p0kerboy]

Old Black Lady:

"But I'm not the brightest star in the universe, so I need some help figuring this out."

[illini43]

Lady OWNS

[pdjplano]

Ms. Congresscritter: "i'm not the brightest star in the galaxy"

truer words have never been spoken....

[JMa]

[ QUOTE ]
Ms. Congresscritter: "i'm not the brightest star in the galaxy"

truer words have never been spoken....

[/ QUOTE ]

shes awesome

[aditya]

[ QUOTE ]
Ms. Congresscritter: "i'm not the brightest star in the galaxy"

truer words have never been spoken....

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf are you talking about. She made the best points so far today.

[TheEngineer]

LaTourette doesn't seem like a zealot, at least.

[1p0kerboy]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow this old woman is like the Oracle from the Matrix or something.


[/ QUOTE ]

This literally made me burst out in laughter.

[Artsemis]

[ QUOTE ]
Ms. Congresscritter: "i'm not the brightest star in the galaxy"

truer words have never been spoken....

[/ QUOTE ]

You're an idiot.

[TrendYourFriend]

I believe THE ORACLE of Matrix fame has just pwned the committee

[WiltOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow this old woman is like the Oracle from the Matrix or something.


[/ QUOTE ]

This literally made me burst out in laughter.

[/ QUOTE ]

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Ms. Congresscritter: "i'm not the brightest star in the galaxy"

truer words have never been spoken....

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't be deceived by appearances....she's huge for us, and is one of our biggest principled, unwavering supporters.

[Legislurker]

[ QUOTE ]
LaTourette doesn't seem like a zealot, at least.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're forgetting WHO had the letter from FOF to Frank.

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
THAT DEMENTIA RIDDEN OLD LADY IS A FREAKIN CONGRESSWOMAN?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't be a pryck. She is 70 years old woman. She made a few very good points without talking fast and slick. Can you deal with that?

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
LaTourette doesn't seem like a zealot, at least.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're forgetting WHO had the letter from FOF to Frank.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not. He's not on our side, but he's no Bachus.

[TheEngineer]

AWESOME HEARING!! We couldn't have gotten a better one.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Wait, what was the Bible comment please? As a Christian this interests me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bluffthis says we're not allowed to discuss this.

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
AWESOME HEARING!! We couldn't have gotten a better one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except it is on a Friday and no one is there -- almost off the radar. This issue is not front and center and it is going to take a lot of effort (hopefully by Rep. Frank and others) to keep this moving forward.

[jschaud]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
THAT DEMENTIA RIDDEN OLD LADY IS A FREAKIN CONGRESSWOMAN?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't be a pryck. She is 70 years old woman. She made a few very good points without talking fast and slick. Can you deal with that?

[/ QUOTE ]

She is awesome and on our side. She just seemed like she was lost there for a few seconds.

[Wynton]

Let me ask a question to all of you excited about how well this hearing is reportedly going:

Do you really believe that logic will have any effect on the voting?

[1p0kerboy]

[ QUOTE ]
AWESOME HEARING!! We couldn't have gotten a better one.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. That went just about as well as it could have.

[BlackAndRed]

RELEVANT INDIVIDUALS -

Congresspeople -
Barney Frank - D; Chairman, supporter
Spencer Bachus - R; ranking member, opponent, moron
Steven Latourette - R; mild opponent, seems unsure
Ron Paul - R; supporter, pro free internet
Robert Wexler - D; supporter, constituents play mah jong
Julia Carson - D; supporter

Panel:

Balko, Radley, [Reason] Magazine, supporter - civil libs.
Colopy, Michael , Aristotle, supporter - internet security
Prideaux, Jon , Asterion, supporter - payment processing
Kitchen, Gerald , SecureTrading, sup. - payment processing
Schmidt, Jeff , Authis - neutral, skeptic on internet security
Hogan, Gregory , Pastor - opponent, son is a bank robber

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
THAT DEMENTIA RIDDEN OLD LADY IS A FREAKIN CONGRESSWOMAN?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't be a pryck. She is 70 years old woman. She made a few very good points without talking fast and slick. Can you deal with that?

[/ QUOTE ]

She is awesome and on our side. She just seemed like she was lost there for a few seconds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just hit the ripe old age of 40 and I too get lost in the middle of a sentence sometimes and...

I forgot wheree I was going...

[1p0kerboy]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me ask a question to all of you excited about how well this hearing is reportedly going:

Do you really believe that logic will have any effect on the voting?

[/ QUOTE ]

If we don't get the vote, we have still gained a ton of momentum for next time.

[aditya]

so wait, what happens now? When do the vote? and more importantly, when can I Play on Party?

[Richas]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AWESOME HEARING!! We couldn't have gotten a better one.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. That went just about as well as it could have.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was only adjourned. What would the ideal witness list include for round 2. I would nominate the UK Gambling Commissioner.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AWESOME HEARING!! We couldn't have gotten a better one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except it is on a Friday and no one is there -- almost off the radar. This issue is not front and center and it is going to take a lot of effort (hopefully by Rep. Frank and others) to keep this moving forward.

[/ QUOTE ]

No one ever attends these early hearings, actually. Better to pwn a Friday meeting than to tie a Tuesday meeting, I guess. I know the FOF folks will be in an uproar.

Yes, we have a lot of work to do. We're taken a few baby steps in a marathon, but at worst today's hearing goes a long way in helping us protect ourselves from Goodlatte expanding the Wire Act to include poker, as he vowed to do right after UIGEA passed. It also gets pretty much all of our arguments on the Congressional record.

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me ask a question to all of you excited about how well this hearing is reportedly going:

Do you really believe that logic will have any effect on the voting?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it can't hurt. <font color="white">(I think)</font>

[jschaud]

seemed like it went very well. i still think LaTourrette will cave. He actually asked logical questions about protecting youngsters and helping out with people that have real problems. I think there could be a large group of representatives that could be swayed with solid banning of underage players and possibly some kind of 'speed control'. Not sure how that will work for the nosebleed stakes guys though.

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let me ask a question to all of you excited about how well this hearing is reportedly going:

Do you really believe that logic will have any effect on the voting?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it can't hurt. <font color="white">(I think)</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

I know. I just feel like being negative. Forgive me.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me ask a question to all of you excited about how well this hearing is reportedly going:

Do you really believe that logic will have any effect on the voting?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I do. Many in Congress vote against us because it's motherhood and apple pie. They don't even know decent people play poker online. I don't know how many converts we'll get, but I KNOW this helped us tremendously in our battle against Goodlatte expanding the Wire Act to include Internet poker.

[MegaDisgruntled]

I enjoyed the hearing, however, I am not sure what is next.

However, what I think this does is stall any regulations in the near future. And for the moment, the status quo is "tolerable," which is fine by me.

Mega

[2nicolette]

You saw it wrong. He had the letter because Backus(sp?) gave it to him as Backus had to leave.

[disjunction]

I think the other side is correct on the Location Verification debate with 2007 technology. Considering that this place is full of U.S. players pretending to be from Canada so they can play on Party.

But like Frank said, who cares.

[jschaud]

have we gotten a favorable article up on digg, fark, etc lately? Might be a good time to spam one up there.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
seemed like it went very well. i still think LaTourrette will cave. He actually asked logical questions about protecting youngsters and helping out with people that have real problems. I think there could be a large group of representatives that could be swayed with solid banning of underage players and possibly some kind of 'speed control'. Not sure how that will work for the nosebleed stakes guys though.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was saying. I don't think he'll cave, but at least he didn't show up to the hearing with the FOF talking points like Bachus did. He asked what I thought were well-reasoned questions. Bachus asked only either leading questions or anti-gambling (as Bachus says, "illegal Internet gambling) speeches disguised as questions. I'm glad he's a tool. Looked good for us.

[jschaud]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
seemed like it went very well. i still think LaTourrette will cave. He actually asked logical questions about protecting youngsters and helping out with people that have real problems. I think there could be a large group of representatives that could be swayed with solid banning of underage players and possibly some kind of 'speed control'. Not sure how that will work for the nosebleed stakes guys though.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was saying. I don't think he'll cave, but at least he didn't show up to the hearing with the FOF talking points like Bachus did. He asked what I thought were well-reasoned questions. Bachus asked only either leading questions or anti-gambling (as Bachus says, "illegal Internet gambling) speeches disguised as questions. I'm glad he's a tool. Looked good for us.

[/ QUOTE ]

will the next meeting involve different witnesses. possibly more representatives?

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the other side is correct on the Location Verification debate with 2007 technology. Considering that this place is full of U.S. players pretending to be from Canada so they can play on Party.

But like Frank said, who cares.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frank was wise to take that off the table.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
I enjoyed the hearing, however, I am not sure what is next.

However, what I think this does is stall any regulations in the near future. And for the moment, the status quo is "tolerable," which is fine by me.

Mega

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT.

This should take pressure off Gonzales and Paulson, as the claim that "millions of Americans are demanding tough regulations" wasn't borne out as todays meeting.

We should write to them today and tell them we were impressed by what we heard at the hearings. We should also write to our congressmen with the same.

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
will the next meeting involve different witnesses. possibly more representatives?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't be so sure there will be a "next meeting." As I understand it, they often have these public hearings so that they can bring forward legislation with some legitimacy (i.e., make it appear that it has been considered and researched and differing view points were given the opportunity to state their position). I believe the next step is for a bill to be drafted, considered and moved through committee, and eventually (hopefully) make it to the floor of the House.

[RGL]

FWIW, here is a comment on the Bible and gambling from a quick search:

While the Bible does not explicitly mention gambling, it does mention games of "luck" or "chance." As an example, casting lots is used in Leviticus to choose between the sacrificial goat and the scapegoat. Joshua cast lots to determine the allotment of land to the various tribes. Nehemiah cast lots to determine who would live inside the walls of Jerusalem and who wouldn’t. The apostles cast lots to determine the replacement for Judas. Proverbs 16:33 says, “The lot is cast in the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord.”

Would love to see more on this topic.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
seemed like it went very well. i still think LaTourrette will cave. He actually asked logical questions about protecting youngsters and helping out with people that have real problems. I think there could be a large group of representatives that could be swayed with solid banning of underage players and possibly some kind of 'speed control'. Not sure how that will work for the nosebleed stakes guys though.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was saying. I don't think he'll cave, but at least he didn't show up to the hearing with the FOF talking points like Bachus did. He asked what I thought were well-reasoned questions. Bachus asked only either leading questions or anti-gambling (as Bachus says, "illegal Internet gambling) speeches disguised as questions. I'm glad he's a tool. Looked good for us.

[/ QUOTE ]

will the next meeting involve different witnesses. possibly more representatives?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope this one went well enough to drive scheduling of another meeting (or a committee vote). Maybe our opponents on the committee will want a rematch.

Frank was well-briefed on the details.

[jschaud]

was Gresham Barrett 'invited' to this meeting? or was this some smaller subcommittee type action. i'm in his district and i plan on sending him a chastising letter for no-showing.

[tautomer]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow this old woman is like the Oracle from the Matrix or something.

Awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Awesomeness

[1p0kerboy]

Those interested in gambling and the bible, I suggest the parable of the talents which appears in several of the gospels, where the servant is rewarded for investing money.

[Skallagrim]

All in all, a good first round for us.

There are politics, and there are politics. The reps from deeply religious conservative districts (Bachus, e.g.) are never going to change, they know where their votes come from. Likewise, the Reps from more personal freedom loving districts, (R. Paul of course) are already committed.

Its moving the ones in the middle that makes all the difference and this hearing was a good start to get those in the middle moving our way.

The mantra is simple: most internet gamblers get along just fine and dont need government involvement at all, for the small portion who will develop problems, the technology exists to prevent most of the harm, certainly far better than prohibition ever will. And you can get some new revenue too.

If that doesnt carry the day, we switch to plan B - Skill games are different, almost everyone understands that its foolish for your 5 foot 4 inch overweight son to spend lots of money on hopes of becoming an NBA star, but that aslo doesnt mean he shouldnt be allowed to shoot hoops in the backyard or that the real athletic types shouldnt try for the NBA. Poker should be treated similarly.

Anyways, we ARE gaining ground; time for a little hope.

Skallagrim

[permafrost]

[ QUOTE ]
so wait, what happens now? When do the vote? and more importantly, when can I Play on Party?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your state will decide if you can play on Party.

But before that, the regulators must allow Party to get a license.

But before the regulators, the prez must sign the bill.

But before that, the Senate has to pass the bill.

But before that, the Senate committee has to pass it.

But before that, the house has to pass the bill.

But before that, it has to get out of committee. And other things I'm probably forgetting.

Not a marathon, more like a triathlon.

[mshalen]

If all Americans were forced to watch their representative at work on CSpan then every incubant would be thrown out.

To paraphrase Bill Buckley: I would rather be ruled by the first 412 people in the phone book then the shmucks currently serving in the house.

Barney Frank's entire career has been based on the idea that the government is smarter than the individual and should tell them what to do. Now he does a 180 and agrees (probably for the first time) with Ron Paul.

The level of intelligence displayed by the witnesses was far above the level of the Congressmen.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
All in all, a good first round for us.

There are politics, and there are politics. The reps from deeply religious conservative districts (Bachus, e.g.) are never going to change, they know where their votes come from. Likewise, the Reps from more personal freedom loving districts, (R. Paul of course) are already committed.

Its moving the ones in the middle that makes all the difference and this hearing was a good start to get those in the middle moving our way.

The mantra is simple: most internet gamblers get along just fine and dont need government involvement at all, for the small portion who will develop problems, the technology exists to prevent most of the harm, certainly far better than prohibition ever will. And you can get some new revenue too.

If that doesnt carry the day, we switch to plan B - Skill games are different, almost everyone understands that its foolish for your 5 foot 4 inch overweight son to spend lots of money on hopes of becoming an NBA star, but that aslo doesnt mean he shouldnt be allowed to shoot hoops in the backyard or that the real athletic types shouldnt try for the NBA. Poker should be treated similarly.

Anyways, we ARE gaining ground; time for a little hope.

Skallagrim

[/ QUOTE ]

Good points. This is our first victory in the halls of Congress! I'm glad we've moved from defense to offense. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[yimyammer]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh great, Pastor Greg Hogan is the father of the idiot kid at Lehigh who robbed a bank to pay his gambling debts. I'm sure he can blame that on Internet gambling vs. crappy parenting.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, so true.

The wildest kids I ever knew were preachers kids

[bossplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
If all Americans were forced to watch their representative at work on CSpan then every incubant would be thrown out.

To paraphrase Bill Buckley: I would rather be ruled by the first 412 people in the phone book then the shmucks currently serving in the house.

Barney Frank's entire career has been based on the idea that the government is smarter than the individual and should tell them what to do. Now he does a 180 and agrees (probably for the first time) with Ron Paul.

The level of intelligence displayed by the witnesses was far above the level of the Congressmen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, Bachus stood out like a sore thumb in this group of reps. Horrendous.

[dlk9s]

[ QUOTE ]
Bachus sounds exactly like this guy...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/88/FamilyGuyHerbert.jpg/140px-FamilyGuyHerbert.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Dammit, I was going to post that.

[Coy_Roy]

[ QUOTE ]
Um, Bachus stood out like a sore thumb in this group of reps. Horrendous.

[/ QUOTE ]

He came across as a smug, know it all, a.s.s.h.o.l.e., who obviously knew nothing.

[RGL]

Anyone here going to post a link to a video of the hearings? Do you think this will get up on youtube? This hearing should get as wide a viewing as possible. It would be great to be able to post links to it on other, mainstream boards. It might do as much as letters to the reps to build pressure and momentum for movement.

[ZServe]

Just sent an email to the guy from Reason.com

"As a 28 year old American who enjoys a game of poker in the comfort of my home while having the self control not to rob banks, I want to thank you for your speech today. You seemed like you did your homework and it was very well done and easy to follow.

Please speak more on this issue, we need intelligent guys like you on our side."

His email address is rbalko@reason.com for anyone else who wants to send him a quick note.

Can someone post Barney Frank's email address or phone number in this thread? I'm sure this thread will be getting some hits from people who dont visit this forum but would be willing to make a quick thank you call to Barney.

[Quanah Parker]

http://www.stonewalldemocrats.org/uploads/images/CARSON.jpg

Ladies and gentlemen...The ORACLE is pleased

[ZServe]

Just called Mr Frank's 3 offices and left messages with his staff thanking him for his support

508-822-4796
508-999-6462
617-332-3920

Took me about 3 minutes total...also thanks to the Engineer for all of your great work.

[Berge20]

[ QUOTE ]
LaTourette doesn't seem like a zealot, at least.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all a zealot--a political moderate who is very smart and down to earth. Definately against IG for political purposes due to the makeup of his district, so if you can convince him it isnt just the opposition out there, you *may* have a shot.