Can God know that he is infinite?

[Prodigy54321]

So I'm dancing in a thunderstorm and get struck by lightning and die...so now I'm chillin up in heaven and my boy, the G O D, is about to introduce himself.

He tells me that he is God...He claims to be outside of the universe and he is omnipotent and omniscient and infinite...he has existed for all time, uncaused and will exist for all time.

Can he even know himself whether or not the things he said are true?

EDIT: this is obviously about NotReady's talk about limits to human knowledge...aren't there limits to every being's knowledge?

Isn't it possible that there is actually a "higher" God who has limited the "smaller" god's knowledge..yet he still thinks that he is THE GOD?..and so on?

[Taraz]

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Isn't it possible that there is actually a "higher" God who has limited the "smaller" god's knowledge..yet he still thinks that he is THE GOD?..and so on?

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Definitely could be the case. I don't really see where you're going with this though.

[Prodigy54321]

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Isn't it possible that there is actually a "higher" God who has limited the "smaller" god's knowledge..yet he still thinks that he is THE GOD?..and so on?

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Definitely could be the case. I don't really see where you're going with this though.

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as usual, I just ramble without knowing where I am going...

[Lestat]

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Isn't it possible that there is actually a "higher" God who has limited the "smaller" god's knowledge..yet he still thinks that he is THE GOD?..and so on?

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Definitely could be the case. I don't really see where you're going with this though.

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I think it makes the point that we can never know what the ultimate is. So when people try and make the case that their god is the ultimate, they can't know there's not something higher. Just as they claim their god is beyond my knowledge, a god higher than theirs, could exist beyond their knowledge. As long as we're both talking about unfalsifiable things, how can they logically have a problem with that? Yet, I'm sure they do.

[Prodigy54321]

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Isn't it possible that there is actually a "higher" God who has limited the "smaller" god's knowledge..yet he still thinks that he is THE GOD?..and so on?

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely could be the case. I don't really see where you're going with this though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it makes the point that we can never know what the ultimate is. So when people try and make the case that their god is the ultimate, they can't know there's not something higher. Just as they claim their god is beyond my knowledge, a god higher than theirs, could exist beyond their knowledge. As long as we're both talking about unfalsifiable things, how can they logically have a problem with that? Yet, I'm sure they do.

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yeah, that's what I was saying /images/graemlins/wink.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[Taraz]

I'd be interested to hear some theists chime in on this point if anybody is out there.

[bunny]

If the theistic God exists then yes he can know all these things because he has complete knowledge (assuming there isnt some logical contradiction in knowing he is God). I guess it is possible that there is some "puppet God" with some higher puppeteering God (or whatever) but if that's the case, the theist is wrong in their beliefs about God.

[Taraz]

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If the theistic God exists then yes he can know all these things because he has complete knowledge (assuming there isnt some logical contradiction in knowing he is God). I guess it is possible that there is some "puppet God" with some higher puppeteering God (or whatever) but if that's the case, the theist is wrong in their beliefs about God.

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Really? Do most theists claim that God has complete knowledge about everything or just complete knowledge about our universe?

It seems pretty irrelevant to our existence so I don't see why they would have that strong of an opinion one way or the other.

[Lestat]

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I'd be interested to hear some theists chime in on this point if anybody is out there.

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Even though I do sincerely try to put myself in the mindset of a theist, it is difficult.


Atheist - I have no reason to think your god exists.

Theist - Well, He does. You just don't know my God, because you haven't properly sought Him out.

Atheist - Could there be a god higher than yours, which perhaps you haven't sought out?

Theist - No. There is no chance of that.

Atheist - *scratches head with perplexed look*

Theist - *Arms folded with smug smile*

End debate.

[NotReady]

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Isn't it possible that there is actually a "higher" God who has limited the "smaller" god's knowledge..yet he still thinks that he is THE GOD?..and so on?


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When theologians say ultimate that's what they mean.

[Piers]

Yes, he can do what ever you say he can do. Artistic license. No reason why logic should apply in a fantasy.

So it’s not a fantasy, well there is no opinion until we collect enough experimental evidence to make suitably convincing models that encompass the answer to these questions. Which given the nature of the questions is likely to take a while.

[PairTheBoard]

In my "God" debate with Andy Fox on SMP about 2 years ago - sponsered by David Sklansky with charitable contributions to medical research - I made it a point to demure from any imposition of terms like "entity" or "being". I imagine people thought I was being an evasive nit with that position. It's for exactly reasons like the OP that I take that stand. Those words immediately put God in a Box. Once you do that you can't help but ask about what's outside the Box.

Of course anything we say about God really amounts to putting him in a Box. That's why I avoid terms like "All Knowing" or "All Powerful". Whatever "Knowing" God is about is a kind of "Knowing" which our understanding of the word does not capture. If it did capture it, God would be captured in that Box of our understanding of the word. Same with Power.

The least restrictive term I've been able to come up with is, "Source of Existence". That seems to me a simple answer for our ultimate question, "Why not Nothing?". But even that can Box God in. A lot of mystical writing amounts to mystical expansion after mystical expansion of God Boxes. This is why I say that Religious interpretations should not be treated as "correct" or "incorrect", "accurate" or "inaccurate". They are automatically limited by virtue of our speaking them. The best they can do is act as pointers to something beyond them. However, this does not mean we cannot use Personification as a pointer and an aid for our relationship experience with the divine.

PairTheBoard