NL 25 Big draw, call or fold

[Romanis]

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

<font color="black">Hero (SB): $24.70</font>
BB: $25.15
UTG: $21.54
MP: $8.72
CO: $36.56
BTN: $40.01

<font color="black">Reads: </font><font color="blue">Both Players are unknown</font>

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 Players)
UTG calls $0.25, MP calls $0.25, <font color="red">CO raises to $1.50</font>, BTN folds, Hero calls $1.40, BB folds, UTG calls $1.25, MP folds

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($5) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">UTG bets $3.69</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $14.00</font>

I konw the preflop call is debatable, I don't really like playing these hands OOP against unknown players.
On the flop I checked with the intention to checkraise any reasonably sized bet all-in. but after that raise the FE is gone. If one of them has a set or the higher flush draw my draw doesn't look that hot anymore.

[humP]

Push

[juggler97531]

i like allin. it is impossible that someone has both better draw and better made hand.
Worst case we are flipping 60/40. In most cases we have at least 50% and if more people will call - even better. as more villains only slighlty reduces our chances of winning and highly increases our win.
I think this hand is a monster and go broke with it.

[corsakh]

How can you consider calling this OOP?
Its a gamble hand. Someone probably has a draw or a two pair. Lets gamble /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ontiltsoon]

No call or fold PUSH!

[Romanis]

sorry I meant push or fold. When I posted this I thought CO already raised All-in

[JavaNut]

Don't worry too much about A/images/graemlins/heart.gif being out, only A/images/graemlins/heart.gifT/images/graemlins/heart.gif makes sense for the others to have A/images/graemlins/heart.gif8/images/graemlins/heart.gif or less does not really fit their actions preflop. You are in good shape if you complete your flush.

Add to that any K, T seems very good cards here. 14 outs or thereabout. You could even be up against AA (CO looks very scared of draws as he raised more than the pot) where a Q would be an out if not followed by a T.

Push.

[kimpo]

Push!!!!!!

FWIW I wouldn't be too worried about CO here, he looks scared of that draw and given stacks I think he's trying to take it down on the flop.

What's UTG got? Well it doesn't matter too much as its almost certain if you make your flush your good. I think UTG has a set here a lot of the time but with the odds your being given I love this hand. PUSSSHHHHH

[TenFourOff]

You need to call $14 to win $22. You have $9-18 of implied odds if UTG comes along. You likely have 15 outs to win, and you are ahead of some of CO's range, i.e AQ, AJ, QQ, and TT. Nonetheless, while a call is not terrible here, I would fold. You are barely invested in the pot and a call is likely to be neutral to slightly negative EV assuming villan is not a complete maniac. You might as well save the variance and wait for a better place.

Also, I absolutely disagree with pushing. Most of the value from this hand comes from bringing UTG along and hitting your draw when both opponents are pot committed. You have no fold equity against CO and are losing value by folding out UTG.

[Romanis]

Isn't a 14$ call even more scary for MP than a push? Are there hands with which he calls the 14$ but folds to the push?

[Dr_Mabuse101]

Shove. You have no difficult turn decisions to make if you dont hit and it is good for your table image.

[Fiksdal]

fold preflop

and lol. You have TP + a straight-flush draw.

All-in.

[JavaNut]

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't a 14$ call even more scary for MP than a push? Are there hands with which he calls the 14$ but folds to the push?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't think so either, he will be pot committed with a call of $14. MP won't call he will push or fold.

I can see the argument earlier that we should wait for a situation with a bigger edge to reduce varians. In a tournament it would have to be in a stage where the prize money is fairly even from one place to another and I would need to double up to make it to a higher prize level for me to push this. But in a cash game and if reloading is not the problem I would push.

[munkey]

Shove. His flop raise makes a shove &lt; PSR.

We have a 'strange' but v.strong equity hand vs villan's range in that we have a made hand TP2k which is good vs his draws + we have 2nd nut fdraw and gutshot draw so ~ 9+4 outs so even vs a set we'll not too much of a dog.

We'll 60/40 vs flopped str8 and sets - and this is the worst scenario - we beat so much more including combo-draws.

Note: next time you flop top 2/set on similar board do the same -villan's won't know if you've got a big draw so have a hard decision and are more liekly to make mistakes.

Oh and I fold preflop HU vs unknown alot - will 3bet/call knowns.

[ActionStan]

Against a range like {KK+,JJ,AKs,AhTh,KQs,AKo,KQo}, you are ahead 55/45. There is plenty of overlay for you to get all-in. Shove them in there.

easy shove, even against a set your not such a big dog.