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View Full Version : NL25: Top two minraised on river

Emperor Norton
05-31-2007, 12:45 AM
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($31.80)
Hero ($38.05)
MP ($24.15)
CO ($20.85)
Button ($33.65)
SB ($25.25)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls $1, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: ($2.35) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1.75</font>, Button calls $1.75.

Turn: ($5.85) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, Button calls $4.

River: ($13.85) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $8</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $16</font>, Hero?

Villain has a habit of calling with completely nothing on the flop, which does make it hard to figure out where I stand. This is the first time that villain has raised me, but to this point villain has never shown down a decent hand, either. Villain could have a motley two pair here, he could have made a backdoor flush, he could have rivered a set. All I can say is that I'm pretty sure he has something. What do I do, 2+2?
Paul Thomson
05-31-2007, 12:49 AM
i put him squarely on Q/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif or a missed flush draw.
Emperor Norton
05-31-2007, 12:55 AM
So a call is definitely best?
Paul Thomson
05-31-2007, 01:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
So a call is definitely best?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, i think so. just because it's either the nuts or air usually.

he might have a poorly played A2 or 22 but i think that's pretty rare given the drawy board and everything.
Lurker.
05-31-2007, 01:06 AM
you can't really fold...seems like a std call (correct me if i'm wrong pls)?
Paul Thomson
05-31-2007, 01:10 AM
[ QUOTE ]
you can't really fold...seems like a std call (correct me if i'm wrong pls)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Who said anything about folding...i'd lean toward a push!

I know this goes against my back door flush or air range. but there's only one one back door air hand that makes sense. And villain might be capable of playing A2o like a retard...

but i'm never folding.
Lurker.
05-31-2007, 01:13 AM
yeah. i'm never pushing /images/graemlins/frown.gif i may be losing value in spots like this.
Emperor Norton
05-31-2007, 01:20 AM
I admit to being inclined to push this hand, but it's read-dependent. I would not be the least bit surprised to see villain show Q3o here. And yet...
rivhawk02
05-31-2007, 01:21 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Who said anything about folding...i'd lean toward a push!

[/ QUOTE ]

Is villain that bad that they'd call all in with a motley 2 pair or some other hand that you beat? is that the norm?
Paul Thomson
05-31-2007, 01:32 AM
i think calling is better than pushing. the villain usually has air or what he perceives as the nuts is. There's 2 ways to make Qc Kc or Qc Jc. (which would make sense) there's 7 ways to make missed flush draws. These make hte most sense.

poorly played hand. Then there's 2 ways to make A2s and 3 ways to make 22. These two more or less cancel themselves out. (especially since they should be waeighted about the same).

Therefore, calling still seems better than pushing. only because when he calls he usually has us beat, given villains hand range.

however, we should never fold.
doppelganger
05-31-2007, 01:39 AM
It's a flush a lot, but this kind of villain will certainly do this with A6/A2/A3. Can't fold getting better than 4:1.

Edit: And yeah, a push is pure spew. The only value in a push would be if he lays down a set, and flushes are a bigger part of his range than sets by a longshot. He's not calling w/ a worse 2 pair.