Player at table guessed both hands correctly. Can you?

[betgo]

Live MTT, level 1, blinds 25/50. I have 9700 and villain has me covered.

I raise to 150 on the button, BB raises to 400, I make it 1250 and BB calls.

Flop comes Q23,r. BB checks, I bet 1400, and BB calls. Turn is a 7, BB checks, I bet 2500, and BB calls. The river is 9 for a Q2379, BB checks, I push for 4500, and BB calls.

CO guessed both of our hands correctly. What were they?

I hope this is OK for HSMTT. I wouldn't expect 4/180 players to guess this.

[mikeJ]

Stakes/history/likely read button would have matters.

In a vacuum, I would guess he had AQ and you had KK, but you could easily play QQ/AA this way, just that KK has the most combos. I think your avg opponent will often 5-bet or put in a raise somewhere postflop w/ KK/AA, but sucks enough so that he has trouble getting away from AQ preflop.

[Dimitzu]

Being mostly a 4/180 player I must try to prove you wrong /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think you could have AA, QQ and I put villain on AA-KK and maybe AQ if he is bad.

My guess is you had QQ and villain had AA.

[gobboboy]

You have QQ, he has KK.

[vladzhuk]

you have QQ (better have it here), he has AA

[Mr.Poker]

[ QUOTE ]
you have QQ, he has AA

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[luckychewy]

you have aa he has kk. i think this is pretty obvious.

[ItalianFX]

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I wouldn't expect 4/180 players to guess this.

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Why not?

[Mr.Poker]

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you have aa he has kk. i think this is pretty obvious.

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yeh this is right...

[roo400]

this is live!! but what's the buy in? with what we know, I'd say KK for you and AQ for him

[FortunaMaximus]

Way to miss an 6-outer.

[bigballz]

AA for YOU, QQ for him

[namespace]

[ QUOTE ]
Stakes/history/likely read button would have matters.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100%.

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In a vacuum, I would guess he had AQ and you had KK, but you could easily play QQ/AA this way, just that KK has the most combos.

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I think QQ would cause betgo to slow down a "little." He fired a pot sized bet on the flop. Not completely non-standard but this early in a MTT, I think betgo would try to give villain enough rope. Same with AA, hoping that villain had AQ I think again that he would give a chance for villain to take some control. KK for betgo.

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I think your avg opponent will often 5-bet or put in a raise somewhere postflop w/ KK/AA, but sucks enough so that he has trouble getting away from AQ preflop.

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If the player is trappy, IE reads, it wouldn't be too hard to put villain on AA here and try to let betgo hang himself.
Since slow playing AA is non-standard here this early in a tournament I rule this out.

I think villain has to figure that AQ is bad by the river at some point - so no AQ for villain.

I think betgo had KK and villain had QQ.

[betgo]

I didn't bet pot on the flop. I bet 1400 into a 2525 pot on the flop, 2500 into 5325 on the turn, and 4500 into 10325 on the river.

I really didn't have much of a read, as this is aobut the 10th hand of the tournament.

The buyin was actually $340, which technically is low for this forum, but I didn't think this was appropriate for LSMTT. I should give this information though, as it effects the read.

[namespace]

Yikes, if I'm not mis-reading stuff I'm mis-reading stuff.
I mis-read 4th street for the flop.

Thanks for the correction betgo.

I change my read to what others say and it's AA vs QQ.

[mikeJ]

Ok, I don't have much live experience. Are people nittier and/or better live @ in a $340 tourney than your typical $100 online tourney?

[0evg0]

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Ok, I don't have much live experience. Are people nittier and/or better live @ in a $340 tourney than your typical $100 online tourney?

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Nittier, but not better.

[LSgambler]

QQ for you, AA for him

[JSchnett]

QQ for you KK for him.

[shaundeeb]

AA for both

[Clayton]

you have either AA or QQ here like 95%+ of the time, he prob has KK

[TheGreenMile]

agree with deeb. you both have aa.

[swede554]

villain got KK, you QQ.

if villain got AA i don't really understand his river check-call. KK might check behind and if he's getting stacked by QQ anyways, he might as well lead push river. seems very likely villain got KK and is just not good enough or to stubborn to get away from it.

[nath]

so results when?

[rockin]

KK vs KK

[Galwegian]

you have KK and he has AQ. I don't see how anyone can put villain on QQ here - he's not checking the river with QQ and I reckon he would push preflop with QQ anyway (I mean, why just call your 3bet?)

[betgo]

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this is live!! but what's the buy in? with what we know, I'd say KK for you and AQ for him

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Yeh, someone else guessed this also. KK for me and AQ for him.

This was button versus BB, so I wouldn't assume both had big pairs. It maybe would have been better if I posted the hand step by step from villain's point of view.

I am not sure if the preflop reraise or call of the 4-bet were good. Once he call and gets a good flop, it is hard to fold to the cbet. I kept betting small, but got all the money in. Probably not good play by villain, but I think some people on this board would go broke here too.

[shaundeeb]

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this is live!! but what's the buy in? with what we know, I'd say KK for you and AQ for him

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Yeh, someone else guessed this also. KK for me and AQ for him.

This was button versus BB, so I wouldn't assume both had big pairs. It maybe would have been better if I posted the hand step by step from villain's point of view.

I am not sure if the preflop reraise or call of the 4-bet were good. Once he call and gets a good flop, it is hard to fold to the cbet. I kept betting small, but got all the money in. Probably not good play by villain, but I think some people on this board would go broke here too.

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It's an awful PF call of the 4bet if you don't go broke on this board it's basically the best board for you.

[roo400]

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this is live!! but what's the buy in? with what we know, I'd say KK for you and AQ for him

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Yeh, someone else guessed this also. KK for me and AQ for him.

This was button versus BB, so I wouldn't assume both had big pairs. It maybe would have been better if I posted the hand step by step from villain's point of view.

I am not sure if the preflop reraise or call of the 4-bet were good. Once he call and gets a good flop, it is hard to fold to the cbet. I kept betting small, but got all the money in. Probably not good play by villain, but I think some people on this board would go broke here too.

[/ QUOTE ]

SHIP IT!! What do I win?

[CrayT90]

Pre-flop, you put in a good sized raise; he put in a good sized reraise.

You raised him back again with a good sized bet and he called. What hands make sense for each?


Pre-flop, AA vs KK does makes sense, though KK vs AA makes more sense post flop.

Pre-flop, a case can be made for AA vs QQ, and KK vs QQ maybe more.

I say maybe more for KK vs QQ as it makes sense here to slow down with your aces when he raises back and just call.

He is saying he has a high pair or AK and you have both hands beat; he is first to act and has taken the lead. If he was simply defending his blind he will fold to your second raise with anything but playable hands. If you call it gives him a chance to make a continuation bet on the flop that you lose by continuing to push your aces.

I do think you should play your aces fast about 70% of the time, but if you get pushed back it makes sense to let him take the lead. But if you had KK you might not want to see a flop with a re-raiser who could be holding A-high from the big blind. There it makes sense to push back again and see if he really meant it. When he calls you give him credit for a hand.


You put a modest bet into a checked flop with a Q showing and he calls. If HE held AA, his betting makes some sense. He check calls throughout the rest of the hand and might put you on KK. He might be thinking you would not push QQ that hard pre-flop and puts you on KK or maybe AQ if you have shown some loose hands. He's sure he has you beat and is confident you will bet if an ace does not hit the board, and he holds two of them.

But he has to have a bit of concern you played QQ and is beat. He should push you back with a raise or lead out on the turn to clarify. But he calls then checks the turn. In your seat, I would be concerned. He clearly is not concerned you are holding QQ, so he is probably slow playing his QQ.

You lead again with a modest bet and get called. Alarm bells ringing. If he is holding KK he might put you on AA or QQ and know he is beat and not call. If he held AA he would need to bet to fish out your QQ. He is check calling, so he is playing QQ. His call of your pre-flop re-raise was a bit loose out of position (2-1 pot odds), but not unreasonable.


You could be holding AA or KK; it is more likely you are playing AA given that your opponent has called you twice and you bet out on the river. If you held KK you would have some reasonable concern that he is holding AA and check it down. But you bet out, so I have you with AA. But it really could be KK vs QQ given your pre-flop betting. It is a coin flip and I will give the late action more value than the early action.


AA vs QQ


What did you think he held before he showed his cards and why?

[betgo]

As for the river push, I thought villain probably would have raised the turn or bet the river with a set. If he checks, I may check behind. Also, this is a dry board, so the overpair may be ahead. I thought I was probably ahead on the river. However, I wasn't sure if he would call with AQ/KQ/JJ/TT or whatever.

I am not sure if I am usually ahead if he calls the river bet, so I thought for a while before pushing. I got the impression that villain read my hesitation as weakness.

[betgo]

The guy at the table read it as KK vs. AQ because he thought villain would raise the turn with a set. He also noticed us both hesitating on the river.

I kinda can't believe that anyone (not to mention almsot everyone) thought Villain had AA here. Yeah, totally standatd for the average live MTT donk to 3-bet AA PF and then check/call three straight streets on a raggedy board.

[ QUOTE ]
The guy at the table read it as KK vs. AQ because he thought villain would raise the turn with a set. He also noticed us both hesitating on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like the dude at the table had a lot more info than us. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[gravycakes]

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I kinda can't believe that anyone (not to mention almsot everyone) thought Villain had AA here. Yeah, totally standatd for the average live MTT donk to 3-bet AA PF and then check/call three straight streets on a raggedy board.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least 3 people on every thread think someone has AA. It`s really amusing to figure out their logic.

[betgo]

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The guy at the table read it as KK vs. AQ because he thought villain would raise the turn with a set. He also noticed us both hesitating on the river.

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Sounds like the dude at the table had a lot more info than us. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Yeh, I should have mentioned we both hesitated on the river. His hesitation is more significant, since it can't be an act.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I kinda can't believe that anyone (not to mention almsot everyone) thought Villain had AA here. Yeah, totally standatd for the average live MTT donk to 3-bet AA PF and then check/call three straight streets on a raggedy board.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least 3 people on every thread think someone has AA. It`s really amusing to figure out their logic.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you look at it, it is pretty unlikely villain has QQ-AA. For him to flat check/call the turn and check the river with 4500 remaining and 10500 in the pot makes no sense. Neither a donk or shark would do this. Also, he may 5-bet preflop BB vs. BTN with QQ-AA.

If you analyze it, the only reasonable hand villain could have is AQ.

I pretty much have to have QQ-AA or AQ, with KK the most likely based on the action. There is a slight chance I am bluffing, but I probably wouldn't 3-barrel half pot if I was bluffing.