Stars $100r vs lil holdem tough turn

[djk123]

i have been somewhat aggressive so far. this is the first time he has called or raised me.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t300/t600
(Ante: t50)
9 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: t7630
UTG+1: t17600
MP1: t24750
MP2: t30000
MP3: t13925
djk123: t19998
Button: t21719
SB: t58255
BB: t17860

Pre-flop: (9 players) djk123 is CO with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif
5 folds, <font color="#cc0000">djk123 raises to t1800</font>, Button folds, SB calls t1500 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t3150)</font>, BB folds.

Flop: 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (t4650, 2 players)
SB checks, djk123 checks.

Turn: 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (t4650, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">djk123 bets t2500</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to t9000</font>, djk123 ?

[Dunkman]

I don't think I want to assume he's bluffing when this is the first time he's fought back. Given the circumstances I'd fold. I also would have used catching the 8 as a reason to check the turn and call a reasonable bet on most rivers, or to vb the river if checked to.

edit: actually checking the turn is probably results oriented

[nath]

I shove because this is an obvious spot for a thinking player to c/r with air

[luckychewy]

[ QUOTE ]
I shove because this is an obvious spot for a thinking player to c/r with air

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree w/ the bolded part, but even though he's pretty good and aggro, i'd like to at least have some previous knowledge that he takes this line w/ air before i stick it in here. not to say i hate shoving and i might do it sometimes here given some type of previous dynamic but it just seems kinda meh w/o any specific read imho.

[nath]

I should say that it's not that simple, because he doesn't have air that often based on PF. I think you're actually more likely to be behind here because the vast majority of his range is (or should be) pairs. So, yeah, this spot sucks.

[MLG]

nath,
I think this is really really bad. Generally speaking it means you are betting here with the intent of getting it all-in. I think your hand is way to weak for that plan. I don't love this turn bet anyway because i feel like you arent getting called by many/any worse hands and I think checking behind here and then calling/betting the river on a lot of cards seems better. So, the only players I like betting this turn against are guys who will not put any chips in the pot unless they improve to beat you so that you are in effect protecting your hand and in those cases you should be folding fairly easily to the raise.

As is, I think you are in a pretty annoying spot because lill is definitely capable of making a play at you but I'd just go ahead and fold anyway.

[Ansky]

looks like a fold even vs lil.

edit: He's crazy, but this just doesnt look like a bluff.

[nath]

Yeah I wrote my first response pretty quickly, hence the followup. Yeah, I probably fold, and PF has a lot to do with it. I think a shove is better if he was BB, or if we were CO and he was button (and we led the turn and got raised). But flat calling from the SB is scary.

[bigballz]

I agree with MLG about not betting the turn

[gobboboy]

Yeah, if you check the flop you have to check the turn I think. Induce bluffs, etc. I think his coldcall in the sb is the biggest way to let this go. If he called in the bb I think pushing is a bit better but in the sb he almost always has a small pair here and small pairs pretty much hit this flop always.

[djk123]

Thanks for the input. I ended up folding after time banking.

On a side note, say we check behind on turn. River is an 8 and he bets 3k. Raise or call?

[bigballz]

ALL IN

[roo400]

lil is pretty crazy but I think I'd fold also (depends on metagame between you two). If river is another 8 and he fires 3K, I would push