US Military is a casino owner. 130mil/year - bigger than many casinos

[*TT*]

This really makes me say WTF? The hypocrisy is amazing.

link - CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/22/military.gambling/index.html)
By Drew Griffin and Kathleen Johnston
CNN
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BANGOR, Maine (CNN) -- Carrie Walsh's husband was a decorated Apache helicopter pilot for the U.S. Army. But years ago, Aaron Walsh started playing slot machines on military bases. He became a gambling addict. It eventually ruined his military career.

Then last fall, with his life in a tailspin, the 34-year-old walked into the Maine woods, put a gun to his head and killed himself -- after what his wife says was one final "gambling binge."

"The military has this culture of taking care of their own," says Carrie Walsh. "But it seems like when it comes to this, they just, you know, profited from his addiction and then threw him away."

There are thousands of slot machines on military bases overseas. The military says the revenue from the slots -- well over $100 million annually -- is used to fund recreation programs overseas, such as swimming pools, movie theaters and concerts.

Critics say it is an outrage that the military, which has a budget of more than $500 billion this fiscal year, takes money from the pockets of its troops and runs slot machines that generate revenues that equal a medium-sized Las Vegas casino operation.

"The military should not be a predator on its own soldiers and their families," says John Kindt, a business professor at the University of Illinois who has spent years studying the matter. "To be a predator of their own people that are serving their country is outrageous." (Watch why Kindt believes the military should be ashamed Video)

Earlier this year, Kindt issued a report titled "Gambling with Terrorism and U.S. Military Readiness" that blasted the military's gaming machines. He says many soldiers trapped in overseas posts can ill afford access to gambling machines.

Kindt says people drawn to military life are predisposed to become gambling addicts. They're generally young and they're risk-takers, he says. He adds that those type-A personalities are the "ones most likely to get hooked."

About 2.2 percent of military personnel have indicators of probable pathological gambling, he says, compared with about 0.77 to 1.6 percent in the general population.
Military: Slots are needed

Rich Gorman, the Army's point man on recreational activities, says there are 3,000 slot machines for the Army and Marines, bringing in $130 million. The number of gaming machines for the Air Force and Navy weren't immediately disclosed. (Back in 1999, the last time numbers were made available, the Pentagon said it ran 8,000 slot machines on 94 overseas bases and posts.)

Gorman disagrees with critics like Kindt who say military personnel are more apt to get hooked on gambling. Gorman said military personnel are no more likely to be addicted to gambling than anyone else.

Undersecretary of Defense Leslye Arsht, in a statement to CNN, said the machines on bases and posts provide "a controlled alternative to unmonitored host-nation gambling venues and offers a higher payment percentage making it more entertainment oriented than that found at typical casinos."

"Department of Defense policy authorizes the military services to operate gaming and/or other amusement machines in overseas locations only, unless prohibited by host-country laws or agreements," Arsht said.

As for Carrie Walsh, she says her husband struggled with gambling from the outset. Aaron Walsh had gone through one marriage and a suicide attempt after getting hooked on slots at a base in Germany, she says.

His addiction continued after the couple got married and moved to a base in South Korea, with him tearing through his military paychecks and maxing out his credit cards. (Watch Carrie Walsh describe looking for her husband among the slots Video)

After he got in trouble for missing work and was grounded, his wife got fed up and headed back home to Maine.

She says the military did try to help her husband "when it became apparent that he had a problem." He checked into the military's only gambling treatment program at Camp Pendleton in California, a program that has since shut down. But it did little good.

Aaron Walsh was eventually kicked out of the military in September 2005 because of his addiction problems. A few months later, he turned up in Maine. Then one night last fall, he made his way to a civilian casino in Bangor, before killing himself.

"He had been doing really well staying away from it, and I think that he went and had like a gambling binge, and then realized what he had done and decided he wasn't ever going to get better," she said.

[Emperor]

I agree the hypocrisy is mind boggling.

MIL offshore slots, racetracks, lotteries, bingo halls, scrabble tournaments, bridge tournaments, fishing tournaments all legal.

Online gambling is funding terrorists and ruining our children however...

Dubya Tee Eff... /images/graemlins/confused.gif



Oh forgot to add: but did you tip the floor a redbird? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[CountingMyOuts]

The sad thing is that our gov't doesn't even bother to hide the hypocrisy. In practice, they don't need to because of the ignorance of the average citizen/voter.

[Grasshopp3r]

These slot machines have been around for a while, so your allegation should be clarified. The millitary installed slot machines in 1981, which was during the Carter or Reagan administrations.

http://www.news.uiuc.edu/news/04/0513gambling.html

If offshore millitary have access to Party Poker, then that is hypocrisy.

I know that Bluff Magazine was doing a column on Screaming Eagles poker, which was a poker tournament series for the 101st Airborne. I have not noticed if they are still doing the column.

[questions]

It's ironic to me that in the media stories we read about people like this, gambling is bad, but usury (credit cards) is not. How does that work? Why does the credit card industry never get criticized? If gambling is criticized on the basis of not adding to the gross national product, please tell me how credit cards add to the gross national product?

Sad story, though.

[Grasshopp3r]

Credit cards and interest rates are openly disclosed. Only islam forbids charging interest in any form. Are you advocating the elimination of interest?

Here is a funny story that laments the potential that the slot machines in Korea and other bases will lose revenues due to redeployments into Iraq.

http://www.moaa.org/todaysofficer/columnists/Philpott/gamble.asp

[Quanah Parker]

Our government makes money from its own B&M casinos, yet views online poker as a threat.
Sounds just like all the other B&M operators.

[Dunkman]

I'd could argue that credit cards can increase GDP. Let's say there is a short-term decrease in disposable income (recessions, spike in unemployment, whatever.) If people expect to get the disposable income back in the near future, they'll use credit to smooth consumption. Therefore, companies actually producing products that increase GDP do not have to slow/stop production and GDP continues growing at a steady rate. If this didn't happen, the companies would eventually go back to producing at the normal level once the recession etc. was over, but those months of lost production would cut into GDP.

However, you could also argue that the interest from credit cards comes directly from people's disposable income that they would be spending on goods and services. Now, some of that money obviously gets filtered through the cc company and gets spent on consumption of U.S. good and services, but I'd argue it contributes substantially less to GDP in that fashion than it would if it wasn't paid to the credit card companies. I mean those people could save it I suppose, but cmon, it's the U.S., they'd go buy [censored] with like all of it.

Finally, the credit card industry gets criticized all the time...what are you talking about. They are right up there with oil and pharmaceutical companies as the most vilified American corporations.

edit: Oh yeah, the topic...this article is just unbelievable. I don't really think it helps us or anything, but wow how screwed up is our government.

[questions]

[ QUOTE ]
Credit cards and interest rates are openly disclosed. Only islam forbids charging interest in any form. Are you advocating the elimination of interest?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, just pointing out the hypocrisy of "Christians" attacking gambling due to its traditional status as a vice while ignoring or even supporting much of the credit card industry despite Jesus' clear attacks on moneylenders. It relates to this story to the extent that the casino is depicted as preying upon the soldier and yet, those to whom he became indebted are mentioned casually, in my opinion.

By the way, I think this is as dumb as a military-run bordello.

[Grasshopp3r]

Questions, you are almost as ignorant and you are stupid, which is impressive, as you sound incredibly stupid. Here are some sources of reference, as it is money changers, not money lenders that is from scripture.

Matthew, Chapter 21 verses 12 and 13:

12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers , and the seats of them that sold doves,

13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Some other explanation:

The Money Changers

The word "moneychanger" means money-banker or money-broker. They would make large profits at the expense of the pilgrims. Every Israelite, rich or poor, who had reached the age of twenty was obligated to pay a half shekel as an offering to Jehovah into the sacred treasury. This tribute was in every case to be paid in the exact Hebrew half shekel. At Passover everyone in the world who was an adult male and wished to worship at the Temple would bring his "offering" or purchase a sacrificial animal at the Temple. Since there was no acceptance of foreign money with any foreign image the money changers would sell "Temple coinage" at a very high rate of exchange and assess a fixed charge for their services.

One of the islamic teachings is that charging interest is wrong. Now, they simply have another investment system that is equity based, with shared risk and returns.

[questions]

You don't even know. When the word "stupid" was coined, they were talking about me.

But seriously, folks, ...

You can parse and split hairs all you want, and I don't even know which creative version of the Bible you're referring to, nor do I care. You ain't fooling anyone.

Bottom line: Jesus was opposed to usury. Period.

[ QUOTE ]
In Jesus' parable on the subject of usury (Matthew 25:26-27; Luke 19:22-23) "only the hard, austere man, one whose conscience will not interfere with his reaping where he has not sown, and taking up where he has not laid down, would extract usury, for he makes the lord of the parable tell the servant of it: You say I am a hard and austere man, then why did you not act accordingly, and earn me my usury as my nature demanded?" Id. at 3.

Assuming there is a stranger exception, "where is the authority for the practice of usury on our brethren?" Id. at 3. The taking of interest is "subversive of the principles of a sound state policy, contrary to good morals, and opposed to the teaching of God's Word." Id. at 10. The meaning of "usury" has been changed "to mean exhorbitant interest.

The Apostle Peter publicly told his vision: "And in another lake, full or pitch and blood and more bubbling up, there stood men and women on their knees: and these were usurers and those who had taken interest. . ." Antinicene Fathers, Vol. IX, p. 146. The Apostle Paul, in telling his vision, said: "And I saw another multitude of men and women, and worms consumed them. But I lamented and sighing asked the angel and said, 'Who are these?' And he said to me: These are those who exacted interest ON interest, and trusted in their riches and did not hope in God that He was their helper." Antinicene Fathers, Vol. IX, p. 160.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/usury2.htm

[Jeff76]

What does Christian beliefs have to do with this thread?

[Coy_Roy]

Poker is big in the military.


http://www.sportsadvisory.com/SEP_FLYER.jpg


One of the guys at my Sunday live game just came back from Iraq with 6 thousand dollars he said he made against the other fish that were stationed there.


FWIW, a portion of that 6 thousand now resides with me.

[questions]

[ QUOTE ]
What does Christian beliefs have to do with this thread?

[/ QUOTE ]

Gambling is un-Christian and immoral. (yes im being sarcastic

[Grasshopp3r]

Sorry to go off on a tangent.

I found it odd that the millitary was prohibited from paying for recreational activities on foreign bases. They should pay for those things without slots. The fact that the slots have been there for over 25 years illustrates how minor the issue is to the millitary and Congress. Hypocrisy, yes; major issue, no.

We should make it a point to send poker gear to the troops. I sent a few decks of copags along with some girl scout cookies in the last care package that I sent to a local unit that is stationed in Iraq.

[permafrost]

Comparing lawful military slots to unlawful internet poker is like comparing little green apples to navel oranges.

[75s]

I'd rather the mil make money off the soldiers than the stationing countries. WOuldn't you?

[Bilgefisher]

I am a submarine vet. We played poker all the time on the boat. Many other outfits do the same. Gambling is no new thing. This is blown way out of proportion. It really is no big deal.

The military offers alcohol on bases as well, they also boot people for alcoholism. It costs people thousands as well and ruins careers. Should alcohol be banned???

If you did a little research on the subject you would find that it funds MWR events.

Forgot to add, how many are military and really know about this subject? People get all up in arms over 1 article without checking any facts.

[TomVeil]

[ QUOTE ]
I am a submarine vet. We played poker all the time on the boat. Many other outfits do the same. Gambling is no new thing. This is blown way out of proportion. It really is no big deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that we care what soldiers do while they are away. Of course I don't mind if you play poker, or slots, or whatever else. But for the government to then talk about how gambling is immoral.... *shrug*

Myself, I got over the hypocrasy a while ago, because this whole thing has been caused by a small fraction of the population.

[Bilgefisher]

The government isn't profiting off those slot machines. The money goes back into rec funds for base personnel.

[Grasshopp3r]

They are profiting, which is why the millitary should fund the rec programs directly.

[Dunkman]

[ QUOTE ]
The government isn't profiting off those slot machines. The money goes back into rec funds for base personnel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure they are...they're having soldiers who are using the machines foot the bill for rec programs that the military should be paying for. I'm not one to usually advocate for protecting people from themselves, but in this case the military is exploiting the stress of being a soldier (which almost requires some form of escapism to deal with on a daily basis) to pay for programs that they should be footing the bill for. My biggest problem here is that it's fairly obvious that the stress of being in the military does make someone more vulnerable to become addicted to gambling, and the government is using that to its advantage.

[govman6767]

Government takes it further, because soldiers can't play poker and such games for money. Make Sense ????

You can play SLOTS (money goes to army) That's ok by army Ideals.

But you can't play poker ( money exchanged between soldiers ) Because it's MORALLY wrong HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHH

BE ALL THAT YOU CAN BE

[Bilgefisher]

If it was really a problem for the soldiers, don't you think they would be up in arms about it. I haven't heard a single complaint from soldiers other then from that article (and it wasn't the guy himself complaining). The military didn't make this guy an addict, he did it to himself. The military has many ways to prevent people from going overboard with something. Perhaps he fell through the cracks. Its a shame yes, but the military is not trying to squeeze money from these guys like your suggestion. Its merely another form of recreation.

There are so many other organizations that try to swindle serviceman and women out of much more money then a few slot machines.

I do applaud all the folks that are upset even though I think it may be misguided in this case.(just an opinion difference) It is refreshing to see you have the soldiers best interest in mind.

[THAY3R]

Bilge,

lol at your reading comprehension.

I doubt anyone here cares at all whether or not soldiers gamble except for its hypocrisy.

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
They are profiting, which is why the millitary should fund the rec programs directly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather the soldiers fund it with gambling than fund it with my tax dollars.

[govman6767]

[ QUOTE ]
If it was really a problem for the soldiers, don't you think they would be up in arms about it. I haven't heard a single complaint from soldiers other then from that article (and it wasn't the guy himself complaining). The military didn't make this guy an addict, he did it to himself. The military has many ways to prevent people from going overboard with something. Perhaps he fell through the cracks. Its a shame yes, but the military is not trying to squeeze money from these guys like your suggestion. Its merely another form of recreation.

There are so many other organizations that try to swindle serviceman and women out of much more money then a few slot machines.

I do applaud all the folks that are upset even though I think it may be misguided in this case.(just an opinion difference) It is refreshing to see you have the soldiers best interest in mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm in Iraq right now and can't find a poker game because it's off limits..... BUT IT'S LEGAL TO PLAY SLOTS ???

I don't have the soldiers best intrest in mind I have MY best intrests in mind.... The hypocrisy is CRAZY.

[negtv capability]

[ QUOTE ]
They are profiting, which is why the millitary should fund the rec programs directly.

[/ QUOTE ]
How do you read an article, see this:
[ QUOTE ]
The military says the revenue from the slots -- well over $100 million annually -- is used to fund recreation programs overseas, such as swimming pools, movie theaters and concerts.


[/ QUOTE ]
and come away thinking there is a profit being made here?
This money is used for Morale, Welfare and Recreation (MWR) that Soldiers have to drum up for themselves. I guess you'd prefer your tax dollars being spent on swimming pools, billiard tables, darts, horshoes, volleyball nets and the like. (Then we'd have videos of Soldiers lounging in swimming pools, laughing and joking, as if soldiers didn't deserve time away from war- most, in Iraq for example, are working 6 days a week 12-16 hour days. The military wants to distance itself from videos like that and people complaining about Soldiers' work ethics.)
This is the definition of Not For Profit.
The article barely alludes to much and amounts to nothing. Other than a ****** killed himself, that is, just to say the military is not responsible. life decisions/ misfiring neurons/ addiction/ bad childhood? I don't know what, but don't you think if gambling really were the problem- he'd have found a way to spiral down whether in the military or not?
But, mainly how do you read that the money is used for MWR and come away thinking there's a profit being turned?

[krazyace5]

[ QUOTE ]
One solution, DoD officials say, is for Congress to allow the sale of state lottery tickets in stateside exchanges, replacing revenues from one game of chance with another. Exchanges would collect 5 percent to 8 percent in commission on every ticket sold. A portion of those revenues would flow to MWR programs such as golf courses, bowling alleys, and marinas. (The law doesn’t allow the military to use tax dollars for these activities.)

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems to imply that they do make a profit off of these operations.

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
This really makes me say WTF? The hypocrisy is amazing.

Kindt says people drawn to military life are predisposed to become gambling addicts. They're generally young and they're risk-takers, he says. He adds that those type-A personalities are the "ones most likely to get hooked."

About 2.2 percent of military personnel have indicators of probable pathological gambling, he says, compared with about 0.77 to 1.6 percent in the general population.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you on the first statement. The article quote I included, aren't the circumstances (easier access than most places) more of the cause of increased addiction problems, rather than the Type-A personality stuff?

[Dunkman]

[ QUOTE ]

I agree with you on the first statement. The article quote I included, aren't the circumstances (easier access than most places) more of the cause of increased addiction problems, rather than the Type-A personality stuff?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd think it's probably both. The Type-A personality lends them more susceptible to have problems with thinks LIKE gambling, but the easy availability is what makes it gambling and maybe not other things that give that give a rush (driving fast, drinking...also more healthy things extreme sports, working out, etc.)

[dlk9s]

[ QUOTE ]
Comparing lawful military slots to unlawful internet poker is like comparing little green apples to navel oranges.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know...apples and oranges are both sweet, juicy, and full of vitamins.

[Bilgefisher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This really makes me say WTF? The hypocrisy is amazing.

Kindt says people drawn to military life are predisposed to become gambling addicts. They're generally young and they're risk-takers, he says. He adds that those type-A personalities are the "ones most likely to get hooked."

About 2.2 percent of military personnel have indicators of probable pathological gambling, he says, compared with about 0.77 to 1.6 percent in the general population.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you on the first statement. The article quote I included, aren't the circumstances (easier access than most places) more of the cause of increased addiction problems, rather than the Type-A personality stuff?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not disputing your facts about increased chances of gambling addiction among Military. I would however like to see the stats for lower income families. The majority of military members come from middle or lower income families. It may "partially" be a by product of that.