Looking for college poker players

[Poker Researcher]

Hello I am an academic doing research about the popularity of poker on college campuses. I need college students who play at least once a week for a brief anonymous survey. It will only take 5 minutes to complete.

Please email me at surveypoker@yahoo.com or PM and I will send you the survey in the body of the message.

Thanks for the help.

[disjunction]

Hellooooooooooooooooo selection bias.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
Hellooooooooooooooooo selection bias.

[/ QUOTE ]

What, just because probably 95% of college poker players lose money, and probably over 50% of 2+2'ers make money? Shees. Some scientist you are . . .

[Poker Researcher]

This survey has nothing to do with money. It deals with time spent playing. It is also anonymous. I appreciate any help you all can provide.

[Dids]

The methodology behind this seems so poor that I'm inclinded to assume this is a scam. I suppose it would be rash to lock it and ban the poster, but I would encourage folks not to share your email address with this guy.

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]
This survey has nothing to do with money. It deals with time spent playing. It is also anonymous. I appreciate any help you all can provide.

[/ QUOTE ]

(1) People on twoplustwo.com play more than the average player.

(2) To start, how about bias in terms selecting people who respond to surveys? There was someone in the psychology forums who derived the ideal "poker personality" from handing out a survey to winning players, and the unsurprising result was the profile of a person who has the time and willingness to respond to surveys. His thread had 100 "Gosh, gee, wow!" responses IIRC and I don't think one person questioned the methodology.

Or, more famously, Reader's Digest did a survey on marital happiness, they asked readers to fill out a quick questionaire and mail it back in. The "results" were that 95% of wives cheat on their husbands.

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]
The methodology behind this seems so poor that I'm inclinded to assume this is a scam. I suppose it would be rash to lock it and ban the poster, but I would encourage folks not to share your email address with this guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet its just a college kid or someone at their job who thought this would be a good idea and is not used to constructing surveys. I've run into a surprising number of people in life who have just never contemplated the issues behind research.

[Dids]

Well- anybody who is a social science major will likley be required to take a research methodology course. So that makes me really suspect that this is spam... either that or a Freshman.

[Bartman387]

I took a low level freshman stats class where this would have been fine. The point wasn't to get a scientificly accurate result that could withstand peer reviews, but to become acquainted with the process of obtaining statistics, finding correlations, drawing a conclusion etc.

the fact that he said he would also just PM you the questionaire, makes me not so suspicious.

[Dids]

"but to become acquainted with the process of obtaining statistics, finding correlations, drawing a conclusion etc"

This makes me want to cry. Why would you possibly teach somebody to draw an incorrect conclusion or correlation based on badly sampled data.

Die education die.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
The methodology behind this seems so poor that I'm inclinded to assume this is a scam. I suppose it would be rash to lock it and ban the poster, but I would encourage folks not to share your email address with this guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

given what he has told you, what is wrong behind his methodology?

you don't even know what he is going to be asking

[Dids]

It's a self selection sample that won't be at all representative of the avg poker player college student.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a self selection sample that won't be at all representative of the avg poker player college student.

[/ QUOTE ]

did he say he was looking for an avg poker player college student?

[restrikt]

There is obvious response bias, since only those who choose to respond will take the survey - thus making it a poor representation of the entire college poker community.

[Poker Researcher]

First off this is not a scam. And, I am not creating a population totally resprsentative of all poker players. I am doing a study that looks at why poker has become so popular. It has nothing to do with the ability to win money, talent, etc...

Thanks for those who have helped.

The

[Poker Researcher]

Mr. Community College Dropout - my sample is those who play poker at least once a week. It does not matter if they play more or if they are experts.

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]
I am doing a study that looks at why poker has become so popular. It has nothing to do with the ability to win money, talent, etc...


[/ QUOTE ]

And yet, what you will find at 2+2 is a disproportionate amount of people who play poker for money. For example, I was dragged into poker kicking and screaming a year and a half ago. I didn't catch onto the trend early because I always hated cards. I hate losing, and when I'm having "fun" with my friends, I really don't want to analyze a game. But when I found out it was a valid way of making money, I studied up, and joined 2+2. So I am a data point you'll get.

Some data points you won't get -- I have friends on the other hand who play fairly often, and who would never have the patience to read 2+2. They enjoy cards more than me. They learned about poker from different sources. You will not get responses from people like them.

It may very well be possible to tease out these variables and do a precise study, and I apologize if your methodology is so precise that you are doing it. (Actually, no I don't, because the discussion is worth it since our society is so ignorant, until it gets tiresome and thread gets locked). However, I skeptical that your methods are precise. Obviously you can't rely on honest responses about winrate, so I don't know how you can distinguish between players, and you'll probably have to, or else mathematical 2+2ers will represent everybody.

Edit: Additionally, as I and restrikt pointed out, you will get a disproportionate amount of "quiet" people who surf the internet and have time/willingness to respond to surveys. You'll get INTP personalities. If that's who you want to analyze, people who learned about poker from the Internet, enjoy.

[Poker Researcher]

Valid points here, but my population is a large one. I want it to be as diverse as possible. I have plenty of respondents who you would probably look down upon - those who play with no real strategy but play for the fun of the game. They will then be mixed in with those from 2+2. Winrate and playing for money has nothing to do with it, once again, I am looking for reasons as to why poker has become so popular on college campuses.

Even the great players needed to start at one time, I am looking at to what got them started.

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]
I have plenty of respondents who you would probably look down upon - those who play with no real strategy but play for the fun of the game. They will then be mixed in with those from 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope this means you have an adequate sample of people who play poker regularly at casinos for the social aspect, learned about Pokerstars from a dealer, and wouldn't be caught dead on a message board. (I don't look down on these people, their lives are more fun than mine). I'm not sure how one can make sure to "mix them in" in appropriate proportions.

[Zele]

You do know he's the moderator here, right?

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
There is obvious response bias, since only those who choose to respond will take the survey - thus making it a poor representation of the entire college poker community.

[/ QUOTE ]

but you have no idea who the rest of his survey takers are, or even what questions he is asking.

people are jumping all over this guys w/o any facts

[restrikt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is obvious response bias, since only those who choose to respond will take the survey - thus making it a poor representation of the entire college poker community.

[/ QUOTE ]

but you have no idea who the rest of his survey takers are, or even what questions he is asking.

people are jumping all over this guys w/o any facts

[/ QUOTE ]

It has nothing to do with poker. When you ask people to fill out a survey, and only those who choose to do the survey respond, then there is response bias.

[jah7_fsu1]

I'll PM this guy and do it...no problem helping out someone in my opinion, people help me out on this forum all the time. Although I agree with many fellow 2+2ers points brought up. Perhaps researcher you could include the body of the summary here and get some help from people who know poker on ways to make your research easier and more effective? Just a suggesstion, check your PM.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is obvious response bias, since only those who choose to respond will take the survey - thus making it a poor representation of the entire college poker community.

[/ QUOTE ]

but you have no idea who the rest of his survey takers are, or even what questions he is asking.

people are jumping all over this guys w/o any facts

[/ QUOTE ]

It has nothing to do with poker. When you ask people to fill out a survey, and only those who choose to do the survey respond, then there is response bias.

[/ QUOTE ]

which would be a problem if 2+2 was his only data point. again, you don't know.

[obsidian]

Why is everyone up all over this guy? You told him there could be selection bias and he heard you.

[Phil153]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Community College Dropout - my sample is those who play poker at least once a week. It does not matter if they play more or if they are experts.

[/ QUOTE ]
Dear Mr. Academic - This response just got you a lot of bogus results.
<font color="white">Not that it matters anyway with your retarded methodology</font>

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is everyone up all over this guy? You told him there could be selection bias and he heard you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because this is a message board. Dids gave the OP the benefit of the doubt by not locking it, and the rest of us actually helped the OP by keeping it on the front page. It's fine to ask people favors in the form of a posted message, but I don't read these boards to do people favors, I read them to have discussions that I (hopefully) find interesting. Fine, everyone got what they wanted.

If anything, we're doing him a favor. This is what academics do, give each other crap about methodology. No malice intended, at a conference you call each other an ignoramus and then go to lunch. If anything, we're helping him, because if he's a real researcher he'll get far worse criticism than ours in peer review.

[Mr. Now]

what''s anaonymous about this is the researcher, and the intentions.

[restrikt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is obvious response bias, since only those who choose to respond will take the survey - thus making it a poor representation of the entire college poker community.

[/ QUOTE ]

but you have no idea who the rest of his survey takers are, or even what questions he is asking.

people are jumping all over this guys w/o any facts

[/ QUOTE ]

It has nothing to do with poker. When you ask people to fill out a survey, and only those who choose to do the survey respond, then there is response bias.

[/ QUOTE ]

which would be a problem if 2+2 was his only data point. again, you don't know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, you're just being stupid now. It doesn't matter if he stands in every casino and asks people to fill out surveys. The fact is, since only people who CHOOSE to fill out the survey will do so, there is response bias.

[manpower]

You know there's a decent chance this guy is just doing this for a stats class or something and doesn't really give a damn if the results are screwed or not. No reason to jump on him. Good luck Mr. Researcher, although I will not be taking the 5 minutes to complete your survey.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is obvious response bias, since only those who choose to respond will take the survey - thus making it a poor representation of the entire college poker community.

[/ QUOTE ]

but you have no idea who the rest of his survey takers are, or even what questions he is asking.

people are jumping all over this guys w/o any facts

[/ QUOTE ]

It has nothing to do with poker. When you ask people to fill out a survey, and only those who choose to do the survey respond, then there is response bias.

[/ QUOTE ]

which would be a problem if 2+2 was his only data point. again, you don't know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, you're just being stupid now. It doesn't matter if he stands in every casino and asks people to fill out surveys. The fact is, since only people who CHOOSE to fill out the survey will do so, there is response bias.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're completely missing the point. forest, trees, all that. whatever, I'll let this thread die now.

[ghostface]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Community College Dropout - my sample is those who play poker at least once a week. It does not matter if they play more or if they are experts.

[/ QUOTE ]

DIDS he says you dropped out of community college. Say it isnt so!!!